UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[dcbwhaley]

Yes, very good for the environment, aren't they...

No
Cars , whether powered by fossil fuels, electricity, hydrogen or fairy dust, are bad for the environment

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Amazon drivers use beaten up old transits from what I've seen

I've seen quite a lot of new (0-3 year old) Electric Amazon vans about.
Almost every time I see an Amazon branded vehicle it's an electric one.

 

[Noddy]

and awful things to drive.

My EV is easily the best car I’ve ever driven. Fast acceleration, instant torque, fast steering, low centre of gravity, firm sporty suspension. It’s great fun (bit too much fun tbh) on the country roads round me (apart from the pot holes). The only area where it’s worse is the braking due to the blending between regen and the actual brakes although you can fiddle with the settings to make it almost negligible. But it’s still fantastic fun when stuck in sport mode on an open road.

 

[Energy]

Very true and EVs have very bad depreciation.

For the amount I bought my latest car for I could have bought a 2 year old MG or KIA EV thing.

I decided to get an older more premium car for the same money.

Careful now, that kind of talk doesn't go down too well on this thread. BEVs are wonderful and part of our eco-utopian future, don't you know!

Few will deny the high depreciation on paper, but you have to consider what is causing it.

• Lithium-ion prices have decreased significantly, but this hasn't been reflected in list prices. For example, a Corsa EV is £25k list but Carwow lists dealers offering it new for £18k.
• EV technology is advancing rapidly, so a few-year-old model is significantly less desirable unless it is significantly cheaper.
• Cheaper cars, such as the Renault 5, are starting to be offered.

However, high depreciation in the initial years is a good thing for private 2nd hand buyers.

Yes, very good for the environment, aren't they...

Over the lifetime of the vehicle - yes.

 

[bspahh]

Very true and EVs have very bad depreciation.

For the amount I bought my latest car for I could have bought a 2 year old MG or KIA EV thing.

I decided to get an older more premium car for the same money.

I bought a KIA EV3 last week.

I wanted an opening sunroof, >250 miles real world range and ideally a warranty for a few years, to then keep for a while.

I live a mile from a KIA dealer, so the 7 year warranty appealed. There are older BMWs and Audis which would have been possibilities, but I'm wary of the running costs as they age. Vauxhall/Citroen/Peugeot etc have various models with sunroofs, but they don't have the range I want.

The options were:

• A first generation KIA e-Niro. These were ~£13-16k with ~3 years of warranty left.
• A second generation KIA Niro EV. These were ~£19-£23k with 4 years of warranty left.
• A first generation KIA EV6. These are ~£24-28k, with 3-4 years warranty. They are bigger than I would like. When I sat in them in the front or rear seats, I had to duck my head to avoid banging on the roof.
• An EV3. These were from £34k second hand or £38k brand new. The list price is £43k which means that new ones will cost £2k extra VED over the first 5 years. This was has been applied for BEVs that were registered after April 1st 2025.
  
  A brand new EV3 Air doesn't have the £2k extra VED, and has a discount from KIA to match the government EV discount. However, it doesn't have a sunroof.

I went for a used EV3 GT Line S for £34k. It will be cheaper in a year, but I want a car now. Its a current model with active software development. I get about 4 miles per kW, which means it does ~200 miles starting with 80% charge and ending at 20%, to prolong the battery life. It has a flat floor for the rear passengers, which is more comfortable if there are 5 in the back, but still has some retro features, like a well for a space saver tyre in the boot.

A Niro would have been cheaper. The discussion boards have comments from owners of Niros, about functionality which their car has in theory, but with rough edges. The range is a bit lower, and charging is a bit slower.

 

[rmHawk765]

No
Cars , whether powered by fossil fuels, electricity, hydrogen or fairy dust, are bad for the environment

I think you may have just slightly missed the joke

 

[Bald Rick]

Things like Amazon and DPD vans tend to be electric to be fair.

Not many of them in central London. Most of the small vans (ie car derived vans such as VW Caddy) I see in central London are construction / building maintenance trades of one sort or another.

 

[GLC]

Hot hatches are more than just outright speed, they're not the fastest. It's all about the lightweight chassis and handling which EVs will never be. They are far too heavy and high up and that doesn't make a car fun to drive, the only thing they have is the torque and speed in a straight line.

My bespoke platform EV has a CoG only 10mm higher than my bespoke platform dedicated sports car, even though the EV is 300mm taller physically. There are things to not enjoy about with a performance EV vs a hot hatch, but EVs even when taller, keeping their weight within the wheelbase are miles nicer than a hot hatch trying to package an engine and gearbox between two strut towers

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I bought a KIA EV3 last week.

I wanted an opening sunroof, >250 miles real world range and ideally a warranty for a few years, to then keep for a while.

I live a mile from a KIA dealer, so the 7 year warranty appealed. There are older BMWs and Audis which would have been possibilities, but I'm wary of the running costs as they age. Vauxhall/Citroen/Peugeot etc have various models with sunroofs, but they don't have the range I want.

The options were:

• A first generation KIA e-Niro. These were ~£13-16k with ~3 years of warranty left.
• A second generation KIA Niro EV. These were ~£19-£23k with 4 years of warranty left.
• A first generation KIA EV6. These are ~£24-28k, with 3-4 years warranty. They are bigger than I would like. When I sat in them in the front or rear seats, I had to duck my head to avoid banging on the roof.
• An EV3. These were from £34k second hand or £38k brand new. The list price is £43k which means that new ones will cost £2k extra VED over the first 5 years. This was has been applied for BEVs that were registered after April 1st 2025.
  
  A brand new EV3 Air doesn't have the £2k extra VED, and has a discount from KIA to match the government EV discount. However, it doesn't have a sunroof.

I went for a used EV3 GT Line S for £34k. It will be cheaper in a year, but I want a car now. Its a current model with active software development. I get about 4 miles per kW, which means it does ~200 miles starting with 80% charge and ending at 20%, to prolong the battery life. It has a flat floor for the rear passengers, which is more comfortable if there are 5 in the back, but still has some retro features, like a well for a space saver tyre in the boot.

A Niro would have been cheaper. The discussion boards have comments from owners of Niros, about functionality which their car has in theory, but with rough edges. The range is a bit lower, and charging is a bit slower.

With all due respect, if you're in a position to spend £34k on a new car (even if it's on finance, and I'm not going to expect you to reveal such details) then you're not the part of the market that needs convincing.

My budget when I change cars is about one tenth of that. Even if there was a plethora of battery electric vehicles available within that budget, owning an EV is just not practical due to my accomodation which means charging at home will never be an option as long as I'm living here. I'm in a flat in a converted mill with no dedicated parking, and my flat is at the rear so even if my local council were competent enough to implement pavement trenches I wouldn't be able to use them.
In any case I personally have zero interest in even an automatic gearbox, let alone a full electric drivetrain. I'll keep on with older but well-maintained ICE for as long as possible, until the keys are forcibly prised from my hands. I like the look of the new Renault 5 but I'd much rather it had a proper engine in it- and while it's cheap by BEV standards it's still far from affordable. Maybe in 7+ years they'll be available used and affordable but what sort of condition will the battery be in by then?

 

[GusB]

I think you may have just slightly missed the joke

@BingMan makes a good point here; cars are bad for the environment in that they cause congestion regardless of the power source. Fewer cars on the road means that more efficient forms of transport, such as electric buses, can make progress without being caught in traffic.

With all due respect, if you're in a position to spend £34k on a new car (even if it's on finance, and I'm not going to expect you to reveal such details) then you're not the part of the market that needs convincing.

My budget when I change cars is about one tenth of that. Even if there was a plethora of battery electric vehicles available within that budget, owning an EV is just not practical due to my accomodation which means charging at home will never be an option as long as I'm living here. I'm in a flat in a converted mill with no dedicated parking, and my flat is at the rear so even if my local council were competent enough to implement pavement trenches I wouldn't be able to use them.

This argument keeps cropping up. Not everyone is going to be able to charge at home due to the accommodation that they live in. I live in a cul-de-sac where parking spaces are communal (managed by the local housing association) and nobody actually owns the space where they park. Even if I owned my house, I wouldn't be able to charge from home. There are a few public chargers within reasonable walking distance, though; they're not as cheap as home charging, but they're also not as expensive as some people suggest.

In any case I personally have zero interest in even an automatic gearbox, let alone a full electric drivetrain. I'll keep on with older but well-maintained ICE for as long as possible, until the keys are forcibly prised from my hands. I like the look of the new Renault 5 but I'd much rather it had a proper engine in it- and while it's cheap by BEV standards it's still far from affordable. Maybe in 7+ years they'll be available used and affordable but what sort of condition will the battery be in by then?

Ah, so it's more "won't" than "can't"!

Are you able to guarantee that the engine and transmission in a car that's 7+ years old will be any good?

My (petrol) car is a 17-reg and, until recently, I've only ever had to pay out for some new tyres and some new wiper blades. It failed the most recent MOT because it needed new rear springs (this could happen with any car, to be fair) and I had an advisory for the exhaust. Said exhaust is now making rather sporty noises and will be replaced as soon as I can afford it; I wouldn't have to worry about that if I had an EV.

Old cars need more care to keep them running, regardless of the power source.

 

[Noddy]

what sort of condition will the battery be in by then?

Not too shabby a condition judging by this 8 year example with a whopping 430000 miles on the clock. Yeah it won’t be like new but show me an ICE vehicle of that age/mileage that is. And the owner has barely had to replace anything during that time.

Video of an eight year old Tesla Model S with 430 thousand miles on the clock getting a battery health check.

 

[bspahh]

My (petrol) car is a 17-reg and, until recently, I've only ever had to pay out for some new tyres and some new wiper blades. It failed the most recent MOT because it needed new rear springs (this could happen with any car, to be fair) and I had an advisory for the exhaust. Said exhaust is now making rather sporty noises and will be replaced as soon as I can afford it; I wouldn't have to worry about that if I had an EV.

Have you checked where the exhaust is damaged? If you catch it soon enough, then it might be repairable. I had a rattling exhaust, when a mounting bracket broke off. I checked at a Ford dealer and they could only offer a complete replacement for £1100. He suggested I try a garage on an industrial estate, which welded a new bracket on and charged me £45.

Worn/broken suspension is a running cost like tyres. Fixing it will be much cheaper than the depreciation on a replacement car.

My Mondeo still runs fine. However a big bolt broke when the timing belt was replaced. It got drilled out and a new one was fitted. However, the thread is damaged, so it was tightened by feel, rather than torque wrench. It came loose once. The garage tightened it and said it might be fine, or could come loose again. It's not something I want to trust.

 

[styles]

Not too shabby a condition judging by this 8 year example with a whopping 430000 miles on the clock. Yeah it won’t be like new but show me an ICE vehicle of that age/mileage that is. And the owner has barely had to replace anything during that time.

Video of an eight year old Tesla Model S with 430 thousand miles on the clock getting a battery health check.

72-76% after 430,000 miles is pretty impressive, especially given it hadn't been serviced. Still usable as a taxi that.

£1800 to replace the headlamps though!

 

[Noddy]

£1800 to replace the headlamps though!

Tesla for you!

The other point is though, is that this is effectively a first generation EV produced by a company that very nearly went bankrupt during the development of this car. As knowledge and technology improves it’s likely that batteries will last even longer in more modern cars.

 

[styles]

Tesla for you!

The other point is though, is that this is effectively a first generation EV produced by a company that very nearly went bankrupt during the development of this car. As knowledge and technology improves it’s likely that batteries will last even longer in more modern cars.

Oh absolutely. I may have said further up in this post but EV technology is practically in its infancy compared to the sheer R&D which has gone into ICEs over the past hundred years.

The battery tech, charging tech, motor efficiency etc will keep coming leaps and bounds.

A Polestar 3 set a new Guinness World Record the other day managing 581 miles on a single charge (with careful battery management etc of course): https://www.topgear.com/car-news/el...les-one-charge-sets-new-guinness-world-record

A Polestar 3 has set a new Guinness World Record after travelling a herculean 581.3 miles on a single charge. Shout out to the no-doubt herculean bladders of its drivers.
Sorry, herculean bladders of its ‘professional efficiency’ drivers Sam Clarke, Kevin Booker and Richard Parker, who between them drove the Long Range Single Motor Polestar for 22 hours and 57 minutes to set a record for the longest journey travelled by an electric SUV.

The trio’s odyssey began near Norwich and took in 581.3 miles of “mostly flat A and B roads”, as well as the odd dual carriageway, through ‘mixed’ weather conditions. They switched over every three hours for reasons that are obvious, and drove a very standard Polestar 3 on 20s running Michelin EV tyres. The effort was adjudicated by GWR judge Paulina Sapinska.
Apparently the 3 hit its WLTP figure of 438 miles with 20 per cent battery remaining. Indeed, at 0 per cent the team did another eight miles – the classic ‘fuel light bingo’ but for a modern age – before stopping at a charger. It ended up recording 5.13 miles per kWh.

 

[jon0844]

There seems to be loads of videos of people in high mileage cars that have still got 80+% state of health.

One Vauxhall minibus with 210,000 miles had 89%!

Even the Leaf, which had very poor to no battery conditioning features has many examples of the battery still being better than expected and still offering a decent range if you do low miles and can easily charge regularly. They'll set you back around £1-3k - plus the need to get a battery test.

I also saw this week that more companies are expecting to offer battery repairs to do away with the need to change an entire pack, which will eliminate all those tired arguments that you'll need to spend £20k on a battery in a few years. Besides the fact batteries aren't that expensive, you will potentially have the option to replace bad batteries within modules and get them properly balanced and back into operation.

As I said ages ago, the future jobs are going to be in the green energy sector from working with solar, to batteries and maintenance/recycling. I'd argue that investors would want to put money into this than fossil fuels.

 

[rmHawk765]

@BingMan makes a good point here; cars are bad for the environment in that they cause congestion regardless of the power source. Fewer cars on the road means that more efficient forms of transport, such as electric buses, can make progress without being caught in traffic.

That is precisely my viewpoint as well - the inherent idea of personal motor vehicles will always cause problems, electric or not.

 

[cactustwirly]

Oh absolutely. I may have said further up in this post but EV technology is practically in its infancy compared to the sheer R&D which has gone into ICEs over the past hundred years.

The battery tech, charging tech, motor efficiency etc will keep coming leaps and bounds.

A Polestar 3 set a new Guinness World Record the other day managing 581 miles on a single charge (with careful battery management etc of course): https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/polestar-3-does-581-miles-one-charge-sets-new-guinness-world-reco

But only by driving in perfect conditions down flat roads and driving very slowly.

It has an unusually large battery pack.

Normal use on the motorway in the winter when it's wet and windy I doubt it will get anywhere near that

 

[thejuggler]

There are EVs with very high mileage, but to balance the scales there are also very low mileage a 1-3 years old going to auction because they are failing a battery health check and don't have warranty cover.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are EVs with very high mileage, but to balance the scales there are also very low mileage a 1-3 years old going to auction because they are failing a battery health check and don't have warranty cover.

Grey imports? As an 8 year/100K mile battery warranty is legally required on UK sourced models. Unless one practices "bangernomics", does an extremely high mileage or feels that a major car manufacturer is likely to go under soon, this means battery faults are not a concern financially.

 

[styles]

But only by driving in perfect conditions down flat roads and driving very slowly.

It has an unusually large battery pack.

Normal use on the motorway in the winter when it's wet and windy I doubt it will get anywhere near that

Of course, that's why I said 'with careful battery management etc of course'.

The point is, even if it's flat A roads around Norfolk with only light rain and driving slowly, getting 581 miles out of a single charge, which can be recharged 80% in just over half an hour, is massive progress compared to just 15 years ago when that was 100 miles out of a first gen Nissan Leaf with an 6 hour recharge to 80%. In a few years someone will be doing LEJOG in an EV.

It's the same with the public charger problem - the number of public chargers has grown has been growing exponentially for over a decade. It's just not going to be an issue (and people I know with EVs never seem to have an issue already).

We've only had mass produced EVs for a few years and the tech in them is coming along rapidly.

 

[Bikeman78]

There seems to be loads of videos of people in high mileage cars that have still got 80+% state of health.

One Vauxhall minibus with 210,000 miles had 89%!

It would take me 50 years to rack up that number of miles.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I think the general accepted "wisdom" is that, the few unlucky aside, the battery will outlast (in a usable condition) the rest of the car. It may also be important to understand the impact of minor battery deterioration: an analogy might be that the size of the fuel tank reduces. A battery with 80% health is still a battery, just 80% as "big". The car will (all other things being equal) still otherwise operate just as when new.

 

[HSTEd]

Even the Leaf, which had very poor to no battery conditioning features has many examples of the battery still being better than expected and still offering a decent range if you do low miles and can easily charge regularly. They'll set you back around £1-3k - plus the need to get a battery test.

I'm trying to talk my now-retired parents into getting one of those very cheap Leafs (or the Renault Zoe if they can find out without a battery lease) as a runabout to replace their second car when the rust finally gets it. Which won't be that far away!

They'd only have to go 50 miles or so in it at most between charges, often less.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2025 ==

I think the general accepted "wisdom" is that, the few unlucky aside, the battery will outlast (in a usable condition) the rest of the car. It may also be important to understand the impact of minor battery deterioration: an analogy might be that the size of the fuel tank reduces. A battery with 80% health is still a battery, just 80% as "big". The car will (all other things being equal) still otherwise operate just as when new.

Personally if I had space I'd be thinking trying to buy a Nissan leaf, stripping it down and trying to hack the battery pack into a grid connected storage solution.
Even with some money for parts its going to be miles cheaper than a bespoke battery for the capacity!

 

[jon0844]

But only by driving in perfect conditions down flat roads and driving very slowly.

It has an unusually large battery pack.

Normal use on the motorway in the winter when it's wet and windy I doubt it will get anywhere near that

Having driven ICE cars since the 1990s, every single one will have better range only you drive carefully. The weather also makes a difference (albeit less than an EV). For decades people moaned about cars not achieving the MPGs as advertised, yet all of a sudden we compare the figures as if 100% accurate.

If you absolutely need the longest range, enable eco mode and a high level of regeneration and depending on the speed you do, you may exceed the WLTP given it is calculated on a mix of slow city driving and motorway driving. Just like an ICE, if you have a heavy right foot (especially in sport mode) then you'll use energy faster - but the same applies for an ICE car. Many people like to drive fast, so you can't do that and then quote the MPG for driving at a more moderate speed with less acceleration and late braking.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2025 ==

The point is, even if it's flat A roads around Norfolk with only light rain and driving slowly, getting 581 miles out of a single charge, which can be recharged 80% in just over half an hour, is massive progress compared to just 15 years ago when that was 100 miles out of a first gen Nissan Leaf with an 6 hour recharge to 80%. In a few years someone will be doing LEJOG in an EV.

We've only had mass produced EVs for a few years and the tech in them is coming along rapidly.

I can't wait to see what the range will be on the new MG4 with the semi solid state battery. Honor is now selling smartphones with silicon carbon batteries that bump up the energy density considerably (instead of 4500-5000mAh batteries, they're up to 6000-7,500mAh for almost the same size) and if such energy density increases come to EVs then you're looking at significant range increases for the same size/weight as now OR the same range for a smaller, lighter, battery.

It's only 2025 so by 2030-35 you can only imagine how good the batteries will be.

It will be funny if the average EV can exceed the range of the diesel car used for the mythical 800 mile winter morning drive. I expect anyone who is still anti-EV at that point will be saying '800 miles in an EV? What's the point, nobody needs to drive that far without a stop'....

It would take me 50 years to rack up that number of miles.

For most car owners, the mileage they'll do means the battery will never be a concern for them. If they can do 200,000+ miles, and they're doing 5-6,000 per year...

Personally if I had space I'd be thinking trying to buy a Nissan leaf, stripping it down and trying to hack the battery pack into a grid connected storage solution.
Even with some money for parts its going to be miles cheaper than a bespoke battery for the capacity!

There are a lot of companies already working on Leaf batteries, and many people repurposing them either for other Leaf owners (e.g. recovered batteries from accident damaged cars) or home or commercial battery storage. I do think it's more likely commercial storage though.

 

[styles]

It will be funny if the average EV can exceed the range of the diesel car used for the mythical 800 mile winter morning drive. I expect anyone who is still anti-EV at that point will be saying '800 miles in an EV? What's the point, nobody needs to drive that far without a stop'....

100%.

Anyone who genuinely needs to do say 400mi (London to Edinburgh) regularly without stopping for even 15 minutes can buy a Polestar, Tesla, EQS/CLS, A6 e-tron, etc. Very few people need to do this, and those doing it regularly should be taking a break anyway.

Once that range becomes more affordable instead of reserved to high end specs, the whole range argument (for cars) will be done really.

But the goalposts will be shifted like you say to oh nobody needs a 500mi real terms range.

It's clear some are just anti-EV and digging their heels in no matter what.

Every time a car goes on fire, social media is ablaze with comments saying must be an EV, despite ICEs being 60x more likely to catch fire.

When someone runs out of battery and the RAC gives them a boost, people mock the fact it's a petrol genny charging the battery (though increasingly roadside assistance vehicles are carrying battery packs). Like yeah but if you run out of diesel, you put diesel in it as well, it's no different; just don't drive with your fuel or charge in the red zone.

 

[thejuggler]

Grey imports? As an 8 year/100K mile battery warranty is legally required on UK sourced models. Unless one practices "bangernomics", does an extremely high mileage or feels that a major car manufacturer is likely to go under soon, this means battery faults are not a concern financially.

Not grey imports, More likely vehicles which don't meet the terms of the warranty. Missed service, external damage from foreign objects (having a huge battery under a car is not a great idea as damage from objects, low speed bumps, kerbs etc is a possibility) or water damage from flooding.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not grey imports, More likely vehicles which don't meet the terms of the warranty. Missed service

In the UK it isn't legal, and hasn't been for a while now, to refuse to pay out on insurance (including warranties which are a form of insurance) due to a minor breach of terms where that breach wasn't contributory to the incident for which the claim arose. As an example, if you never had your ICE car serviced and the door fell off, refusing the claim would not be legal, because no aspect of servicing has anything to do with door hinges. Whereas if you didn't have it serviced and the engine failed due to the oil being like treacle, refusing the claim would be legit. There are very few servicing related grounds to refuse a battery warranty claim.

, external damage from foreign objects (having a huge battery under a car is not a great idea as damage from objects

I once drove over a shovel which fell off the lorry in front, which took a chunk out of the car's sill. Wouldn't have got anywhere near breaching the battery, but if it had that would have just been an insurance claim like any other.

, low speed bumps, kerbs etc is a possibility)

If you're a bad driver.

or water damage from flooding.

Can be an issue for ICEs too.

 

[Bald Rick]

With all due respect, if you're in a position to spend £34k on a new car (even if it's on finance, and I'm not going to expect you to reveal such details) then you're not the part of the market that needs convincing.

My budget when I change cars is about one tenth of that.

And with respect back, the number of car buyers limited to a budget of £3,400 is a small fraction of the market.

Of the 440,000+ cars for sale on Autotrader today, only about 10% are listed under £3,500, and a fair chunk of those are MoT fsilires, spare/repairs, etc. The median price for a used car is £15,000, and there are thousands of EVs available for that price and less. Which given that fewer than 10% of EVs are over 5 years old is, £15k for a decent car with low running costs under 5 years old is pretty good value.

 

[AM9]

Not grey imports, More likely vehicles which don't meet the terms of the warranty. Missed service, external damage from foreign objects (having a huge battery under a car is not a great idea as damage from objects, low speed bumps, kerbs etc is a possibility) or water damage from flooding.

I suspect that EVs are as protected from a flood damaging the battery as an ICV is from a flood damaging the engine.