West Yorkshire - Bridlington - London

[Deerfold]

Hi - looking for a bit of advice on my best ticket(s) again.

On Sunday I'll be travelling from West Yorkshire to Bridlington.

I'll have some sort of day ticket anyway as in the morning will have taken the bus (and possibly train) from Keighley to Girlington (suburb of Bradford) so will be spending at least £3.20. It may well be worth getting a £6.60 dayrover to cover trains in West Yorkshire too.

On the following Wednesday (afternoon/evening) I'll be travelling from Bridlington to London.

I have a season ticket from London and Leeds *on East Coast services only* which may make some longer routes cheaper. I have discount no cards.

 

[cuccir]

On the following Wednesday (afternoon/evening) I'll be travelling from Bridlington to London.

Do you already have the ticket for this leg - wasn't clear from your post, or do you just need a ticket to cover you for W. Yorkshire - Bridlington

 

[Deerfold]

Do you already have the ticket for this leg - wasn't clear from your post, or do you just need a ticket to cover you for W. Yorkshire - Bridlington

I not have any tickets specifically for this journey, but as I pointed out (with rather poor use of English now I re-read it!) I have a season ticket valid for Leeds - London journeys on East Coast services which I expect to able to use for at least Doncaster - Leeds.

I'd like opinions on anything fancier than me just buying (last point in WY) - Bridlington and Bridlington - Doncaster singles.

My original post should have said "I have no discount cards" - all the words were there but I was not playing them in the right order.

 

[yorkie]

A return ticket that has validity from Micklefield (or, for a wider choice, Leeds) to Bridlington and return from Bridlington to Doncaster would do the trick then.

An Off Peak Return (SVR) from somewhere like South Elmsall to Bridlington would work. In fact, an SVR from South Elmsall to Scarborough would probably work, with the return journey being "broken" at Bridlington. I'd need to check the Routeing Guide, and will do and post later.

 

[John @ home]

I have a season ticket from London and Leeds *on East Coast services only* which may make some longer routes cheaper.

I have a season ticket valid for Leeds - London journeys on East Coast services which I expect to able to use for at least Doncaster - Leeds.

If the route shown on your Leeds - London season ticket is "EC only" then it is valid York - London because Leeds - London via York is a Permitted Route (map combination ER+LS).

But I am surprised you have a Leeds - London route EC only season ticket. There is no such fare in NFM 09 CD and the information is The Manual (Season tickets -> 'Market priced' long-distance season tickets -> East Coast) is:

Calculating prices
Under no circumstances should weekly Season Tickets be issued for the journeys shown in the table below.
For periods of one month and longer, please enquire using your TIS or Journey Planner, which will calculate the fare using a cheaper 7-Day base factor for the following ticket types: PSS = Period Season Standard; TRV = Travelcard Season Standard; PSF = Period Season First; TRF = Travelcard Season First.

Further information
For any enquiries regarding ‘Market price’ Season Tickets, please contact the East Coast Pricing Manager. ...

From Leeds To London Terminals Route Any Permitted
From Leeds To Zone R1256 Zones Route Any Permitted ...

 

[Deerfold]

If the route shown on your Leeds - London season ticket is "EC only" then it is valid York - London because Leeds - London via York is a Permitted Route (map combination ER+LS).

But I am surprised you have a Leeds - London route EC only season ticket. There is no such fare in NFM 09 CD and the information is The Manual (Season tickets -> 'Market priced' long-distance season tickets -> East Coast) is:

No, it's a rather special ticket.

It's actually issued as a PRIV ticket with no operator restrictions but will not be accepted by anyone other than EC (as the accompanying documentation isn't a PRIV entitlement). This is due to an arrangement between EC and my employer.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Doing a rather convoluted (and slower - adds anything from 20 minutes to 2 hours to journey time on the way there but there's only a max of 1 an hour)

Leeds to Doncaster (season)
Doncaster to York (season)
York - Bridlington - York (off-peak return)
York to London (season)

brings it down to a £20.80 off-peak return instead of £31.30 from Micklefield and gives me a journey time of 3h02 there from Leeds instead of 2h24. Interestingly my joutney from Bridlington is unchanged as at the time I'd travel I'd be quickest going via York anyway.

Any other ideas?

I considered Yorkshire Coastliner buses but they've gone from providing detailed fares information on their website and in their booklets to providing almost nothing. They do have a day ticket for £15 but I'm unlikely to be able to get to Leeds for 1505 which is the last bus to connect into a Bridlington service. I had thought I'd be able to get a Scarbrough and District service from Scarborough but having looked the last one is at 1825 which would still need me to get the 1505 from Leeds. That'd then need another £6.20 single on the 1940 (or last) train.

Can't help thinking that last buses/trains at these times at the height of the summer season do little to encourage tourism.

 

[John @ home]

it's a rather special ticket.

It's actually issued as a PRIV ticket with no operator restrictions but will not be accepted by anyone other than EC (as the accompanying documentation isn't a PRIV entitlement). This is due to an arrangement between EC and my employer.

If the ticket bears the words "subject to the National Rail Conditions of Carriage" then Condition 13(a)(iii) specifies that you may use trains which take routes shown in the National Routeing Guide, so the ticket may be used York - London.

If the ticket does not carry those words, then validity from York will depend on the wording of the arrangement between EC and your employer.

 

[Deerfold]

If the ticket bears the words "subject to the National Rail Conditions of Carriage" then Condition 13(a)(iii) specifies that you may use trains which take routes shown in the National Routeing Guide, so the ticket may be used York - London.

If the ticket does not carry those words, then validity from York will depend on the wording of the arrangement between EC and your employer.

It does. The ticket is on standard blue stock and is routed ANY PERMITTED.

 

[clagmonster]

How is the ticket valid Doncaster-York, as there are no York-Leeds East Coast services, so it would not be possible to complete the journey.
It would be valid York-Doncaster because of the daily Leeds-Aberdeen service.

 

[yorkie]

How is the ticket valid Doncaster-York, as there are no York-Doncaster East Coast services, so it would not be possible to complete the journey.
It would be valid York-Doncaster because of the daily Leeds-Aberdeen service.

Where is the evidence for this?

Anyway you are incorrect, there is a train from York to Leeds at 23:03. Not that there needs to be.

Furthermore, there isn't a Leeds-Aberdeen service that day, again not that there needs to be.

 

[Deerfold]

How is the ticket valid Doncaster-York, as there are no York-Doncaster East Coast services, so it would not be possible to complete the journey.

Erm, There's rather a lot of these. Roughly hourly on a Sunday.

Or did you mean York - Leeds?

 

[yorkie]

Erm, There's rather a lot of these. Roughly hourly on a Sunday.

Or did you mean York - Leeds?

He meant York-Leeds, but there is at 2303 but I think it's irrelevant.

 

[clagmonster]

A return ticket that has validity from Micklefield (or, for a wider choice, Leeds) to Bridlington and return from Bridlington to Doncaster would do the trick then.

Micklefield is a member of Leeds group.
Bridlington is a related station to Scarborough and Hull.
Doing a fare comparision, we get:
Micklefield-Bridlington SDS £23.80
Micklefield-Scarborough SDS £25.40, so Scarborough is not an appropriate routeing point.
Micklefield-Hull SDS £19.30
We find that in this case, Hull is the only appropriate routeing point.

The only routeing permission for Leeds Group-Hull is: TP

Map TP only allows travel direct via Selby.
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/Maps.pdf page 107
So Micklefield won't do.

For Leeds, the fare comparison is
Leeds-Bridlington SDS £23.80
Leeds-Scarborough SDS £25.40, so Scarborough is not an appropriate routeing point.
Leeds-Hull SDS £19.30
So Leeds is in the same boat as Micklefield.

An Off Peak Return (SVR) from somewhere like South Elmsall to Bridlington would work. In fact, an SVR from South Elmsall to Scarborough would probably work, with the return journey being "broken" at Bridlington. I'd need to check the Routeing Guide, and will do and post later.

South Elmsall is a related station to Doncaster, Pontefract, Swinton and Wakefield.
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/routeing_point_identifier.pdf page 55

The fare comparison test gives:
South Elmsall-Scarborough SDS £25.10
Doncaster-Scarborough SDS £26.20, so Doncaster is not an appropriate routeing point
Pontefract-Scarborough SDS £25.10, so Pontefract is an appropriate routeing point
Swinton-Scarborough SDS £29.70, so Swinton is not an appropriate routeing point
Wakefield-Scarborough SDS £25.10, so Wakefield is an appropriate routeing point

Routeing permissions for Pontefract-Scarborough are LY and NE
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/permitted_route_identifier.pdf page 768

Map LY allows:
Pontefract-Leeds-York-Scarborough, covering your outward journey
Pontefract-Wakefield-Leeds-York-Scarborough
Pontefract-Leeds-Selby-York-Scarborough
Pontefract-Wakefield-Leeds-Selby-York-Scarborough
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/Maps.pdf page 70

Map NE allows:
Pontefract-York-Scarborough
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/Maps.pdf page 81

The only routeing permissions for Wakefield-Scarborough is TP
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/permitted_route_identifier.pdf page 1039

This allows
Wakefield-Leeds-York-Scarborough
Wakefield-Huddersfield-Leeds-York-Scarborough
Wakefield-Pontefract-Leeds-York-Scarborough
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/Maps.pdf page 107

Sadly, my interpretation is the Doncaster is not a permitted route for South Elmsall-Scarborough.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

He meant York-Leeds, but there is at 2303 but I think it's irrelevant.

Good spot, used to be routed via Doncaster. Clearly its booked an HST now then. Point rescinded.

 

[sonic2009]

Even checked going via HULL on the X62, then service 121 to bridlington, but that takes ages!!!

 

[clagmonster]

How about South Elmsall-Bridlington. The fares comparison gives
South Elmsall-Bridlington SDS £27.60
South Elmsall-Scarborough SDS £25.10
South Elmsall-Hull SDS £22.30
So both Hull and Scarborough are appropriate routeing points.

Doing the origin fare comparison we get:
South Elmsall-Bridlington SDS £27.60
Doncaster-Bridlington SDS £22.10, so Doncaster is an appropriate routeing point, allowing return travel via Doncaster if desired.

The South Elmsall-Bridlington saver is £35.20, but it is valid both York and Doncaster, giving you full routeing flexibility.

If you wish to go via York and Scarborough both ways, then a Leeds-Brid saver is £31.30.
Of course, if your prepared to accept the extra journey time on Sunday, your way is cheaper.

 

[Deerfold]

Even checked going via HULL on the X62, then service 121 to bridlington, but that takes ages!!!

Unfortunately it doesn't work well at all. I wouldn't be in Leeds for the 1230 service and the 1730 gets into Hull with just the last Bridlington bus to connect to after a wait of over 2 hours, getting me in at 2257 - a little late to start locating where I'm staying!

 

[sonic2009]

Would you be able to get to Leeds for 1700..?

Service NX563

Leeds Coach Station 1715
Bridlington 1910
Cost £7.80

Sunday 24th July

Return Wednesday 27th July

Service YC845 (YORKSHIRE COASTLINER SERVICE)

1224 Bridlington
1528 Leeds

Cost £8.60

Book through nationalexpress, econmy return is £16.90 with the 50p booking fee included. I don't know if this is okay for you but worth a look at, therefore you could get the train with your season ticket from Leeds to London.

 

[Deerfold]

Would you be able to get to Leeds for 1700..?

Service NX563
Your coach will have the following facilities:

WC

Your journey stops

Detailed journey timings for the selected journey.
Embarkation Stops for service NX563 Departure / arrival
Leaving LEEDS (Coach Station) Departs: 17:15
YORK Departs: 17:55
Stamford Bridge Departs: 18:15
Fridaythorpe Departs: 18:30
Driffield Departs: 18:45
Arrive Bridlington Arrives: 19:10

Single Fare £11.70

I certainly could.
Even better NX website is quoting £8.30 (including booking fee)
That might be a goer.
And grabbing a Coastliner back to York and then my season.

 

[sonic2009]

I certainly could.
Even better NX website is quoting £8.30 (including booking fee)
That might be a goer.
And grabbing a Coastliner back to York and then my season.

I just noticed that if you look at my times it offers a cheaper fare if you get the econmy return fare, i booked you back through to leeds, but i dont see why you wouldnt be able to get off at york?

 

[Deerfold]

Would you be able to get to Leeds for 1700..?

Service NX563

Leeds Coach Station 1715
Bridlington 1910

Sunday 24th July

Return Wednesday 27th July

Service YC845 (YORKSHIRE COASTLINER SERVICE)

1224 Bridlington
1528 Leeds

Book through nationalexpress, econmy return is £16.90 with the 50p booking fee included. I don't know if this is okay for you but worth a look at, therefore you could get the train with your season ticket from Leeds to London.

I was looking at the 1334 from Brid which annoyingly you don't seem to be able to book through NX, probably due to the change at Malton (and Coastliner don't have a price on their website)
I'd probably bail at York and get a train from there with my season (fingers crossed - not tried that yet, though my wife has done London - York on a London - Leeds ticket, just not quite such an odd one).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I just noticed that if you look at my times it offers a cheaper fare if you get the econmy return fare, i booked you back through to leeds, but i dont see why you wouldnt be able to get off at york?

Does it allow BoJ? lol

I can't see it being a problem as it's just a normal bus (won't beat my return fare last year of £0 though).

Looked at booking an open-jaw return on NX (I used to be quite an expert on NX ticketing!) where you come back to somewhere different but it's the same price to come back to York as Leeds and still doesn't offer the 1334).

 

[sonic2009]

I was looking at the 1334 from Brid which annoyingly you don't seem to be able to book through NX, probably due to the change at Malton (and Coastliner don't have a price on their website)
I'd probably bail at York and get a train from there with my season (fingers crossed - not tried that yet, though my wife has done London - York on a London - Leeds ticket, just not quite such an odd one).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Does it allow BoJ? lol

I can't see it being a problem as it's just a normal bus (won't beat my return fare last year of £0 though).

I don't know, but i cannot see the cheaper fare you said on your outward journey from Leeds to Bridlington.. It's quoting £11.70, if you like just follow my option where you get the 1224 Brid to Leeds fare cheaper if you book as a return with the 1715 on the sunday. and i cannot see why not getting off at york, dont know what nat ex rules are. but it's a normal bus!

 

[Deerfold]

I don't know, but i cannot see the cheaper fare you said on your outward journey from Leeds to Bridlington.. It's quoting £11.70, if you like just follow my option where you get the 1224 Brid to Leeds fare cheaper if you book as a return with the 1715 on the sunday. and i cannot see why not getting off at york, dont know what nat ex rules are. but it's a normal bus!

My cheaper fare was a single compared to the £11.90 you put before you edited your post! You'll see I quoted an earler version!

 

[sonic2009]

Oh yes i see sorry i think i was editing when you were posting

 

[Deerfold]

Thanks to all - I'm booked on the coach Leeds - Bridlington and back, only 12 minutes slower than the fastest train service.

Coming back I'll bail at York and if all goes to plan I've 20 minutes to get a non-stop York to London train.