Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[airantraigh]

The n1 route looks interesting

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Heh, this is just what i expected, not sure where the talk was on the 46 getting withdrawn? it didn't even show up on the timetable.

• West Maitland Street is going to get an uproar on Social Media i just know it.
• 36 changes seem very welcome, was worried they were gonna cut this service with it moving garages, but it seems to benefit it more
• Didn't expect to see a Sunday service for the 45, is it really that popular on the weekend now? maybe we can see a full service in the next change if this goes well!
• The N1 is an interesting concept, bet folk are going to be sore on missing the N22 and N26 in the West, would of loved to have seen a new night service like a N27
• So the X27/X28 Stopping Pattern is much similar to how it was in the olden days, missing out Chesser but prioritising Saughton Gardens.
• The X19 has survived almost a year, amazing.
• Pleased to see a better timetable for the 72, the 73 to Armadale is a nice touch and the 74 covering the missing link with the 73 is also nice, but what a long route.
• Didn't see that coming with the 106, it could be a popular choice, especully for a faster bus to Fort Kinnaird from Edinburgh, they could of just brought back the X6 all day but i guess this works well too i suppose, better than nothing.

Nothing really else to say, some good changes and some questionable ones.

 

[Avenger20]

I'm personally very pleased to see an earlier 44 from Wallyford to the City Centre Monday - Friday. It's a shame that the opportunity to reroute the N26 from Levenhall via Haddington Road, B1361 and Prestongrange Road wasn't taken. Wallyford is getting to be some size now without any proper all night service like Musselburgh and Prestonpans are afforded.

The 106 all day is interesting but I wonder why we couldn't have simply had the X6 back as it previously ran - even every hour/two hours.

The social media rants about the 26 not returning to Tranent have already begun!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Certainly most surprising is the daytime extension of service 106 to Western General. I had joked about something like this taking place but never thought it would geniuenly happen. It's interesting that the first arrival into Edinburgh isn't until 10am.

The way the 74 has been updated is also interesting. It's a combined version of the current 73, 74 while the 73 can be treated as a new route with shared areas of the former one. I'm surprised by the route choice though. Neither serve St Johns Hospital.

The 72 doesn't take the most optimal route in Winchburgh in my opinion.

The 1 has quietly had its frequency reduced to an all day 15 with the double deckers, which is hardly a surprise. A lot of the trips on the 36 have stayed as they are despite being Longstone starters.

Removing the stops on West Maitland street is much needed but will come with a lot of frustration and confusion.

The main Lothian network map needs to sort the 72 showing as terminating in Kirkliston.

Heh, this is just what i expected, not sure where the talk was on the 46 getting withdrawn? it didn't even show up on the timetable.

• West Maitland Street is going to get an uproar on Social Media i just know it.
• 36 changes seem very welcome, was worried they were gonna cut this service with it moving garages, but it seems to benefit it more
• Didn't expect to see a Sunday service for the 45, is it really that popular on the weekend now? maybe we can see a full service in the next change if this goes well!
• The N1 is an interesting concept, bet folk are going to be sore on missing the N22 and N26 in the West, would of loved to have seen a new night service like a N27
• So the X27/X28 Stopping Pattern is much similar to how it was in the olden days, missing out Chesser but prioritising Saughton Gardens.
• The X19 has survived almost a year, amazing.
• Pleased to see a better timetable for the 72, the 73 to Armadale is a nice touch and the 74 covering the missing link with the 73 is also nice, but what a long route.
• Didn't see that coming with the 106, it could be a popular choice, especully for a faster bus to Fort Kinnaird from Edinburgh, they could of just brought back the X6 all day but i guess this works well too i suppose, better than nothing.

Nothing really else to say, some good changes and some questionable ones.

I’m pleasantly surprised about the 106. I assume boards will be integrated into the X6 with the dead mileage more or less gone. Those Castle Road journeys on the X4 were a problem for keeping the buses out so it was more a case of they wanted rid of them rather than low usage. Classic case of looking for a way to do it. I can’t see Castle Road lasting much longer at all therefore.

Though for me I would’ve suggested scrapping the X6 completely and running the 106 all day with it increasing to half hourly in the peaks. X4 fast route via Dolphingstone with X5 picking up Pans. If Prentice made certain changes such as having a half hourly 110 in full with the 115 scrapped I think that would tidy that up rather nicely.

The 73 and 74 while welcome is an extremely confusing set up. There’s suggestions that this corridor when combined will be half hourly, yet the 73’s takes a slower route via Livingston Village and is therefore around 6 minutes longer. Westbound in Deans South this creates a total mess with the 74’s largely at xx:50 and some 73’s being as close as xx:35.

In an ideal world the 74 would be half hourly in its entirety with it running to Armadale and hopefully hourly out to Blackridge. The 73 then running Livingston-Livingston Village-Blackburn-Wester Inch-Bathgate which provides a more logical route. This 73 could easily work as hourly. I do get why it’s been set up like this for the moment, but in time it will need to be fixed and time will tell if that happens.

Good to see the old 73 parts that are now on the 74 gain a Sunday service though. Howden South has lost its service though which shouldn’t be a disaster. First/McGill’s used to do the main road stops for St John’s so I can understand why this has been done again. It saves up to 4 or 5 minutes in each direction.

I’m in total agreement with you that the 72’s route in Winchburgh is flawed. I highlighted this previously that half would be missed out if not done correctly. Unfortunately that is exactly what has happened.

The West Maitland Street stops have been a nightmare for a fair few years now. This should’ve happened years ago.

As you say 1 to deckers. The N1 feels a bit of a 1990’s and past throwback with the old circular style NightBuses! Fountainbridge with the students hopefully use the NightBus this time. The N34 never worked…

I think the 46 idea was more the way certain vehicle movements were looking and with the 36 moving away from Longstone. Clearly those movements were for something else.

 

[Blindtraveler]

A fast bus from fort canaide into the city will pay its way, I think they probably got shot in the arm by removing an East coast service from the Western general, although I no longer live in Edinburgh. I certainly missed it on two occasions recently when I was up that way. So the fact this is back is most welcome

 

[NorthEastern]

What are people’s thoughts on the fact that no Lothian services will actually serve Straiton P&R?

 

[overthewater]

As expected nothing major however, yes there is some interesting changes. Such as the changes to some of the night buses, and the extension of service 106 to Western Hospital during the day.

The closure of the Straiton Park and Ride is no great surprise as most passengers were already using the bus service. Hopefully we sill see boost to the other more popular Park N rides such as Ingilston which badly needs more car parking spaces and Hermiston.

Some things missing from these changes includes a bus going into West Craigs, will these change now take place in early 2026? and fixing minor issues from the last lot of East Coast changes. One thing they will DEFFO need to do for next year is to put on a X5 jounrey around 18.30 to Edinburgh..

As for the West Lothian changes that needs a more detailed examination

 

[airantraigh]

Does anyone know what deckers the 1 will likely see??

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Aug 2025 ==

Does anyone know what deckers the 1 will likely see??

 

[paul0762]

As expected nothing major however, yes there is some interesting changes. Such as the changes to some of the night buses, and the extension of service 106 to Western Hospital during the day.

The closure of the Straiton Park and Ride is no great surprise as most passengers were already using the bus service. Hopefully we sill see boost to the other more popular Park N rides such as Ingilston which badly needs more car parking spaces and Hermiston.

Some things missing from these changes includes a bus going into West Craigs, will these change now take place in early 2026? and fixing minor issues from the last lot of East Coast changes. One thing they will DEFFO need to do for next year is to put on a X5 jounrey around 18.30 to Edinburgh..

As for the West Lothian changes that needs a more detailed examination

On West Craig’s, they are currently redesigning the road up there which I think will give access to buses, potentially coming in from turnhouse road then out onto Craig’s road and into east Craig’s that way? I don’t know how it would work, if you had 1 bus terminate at east Craig’s then next at west Craig’s like the other end in Bonnyrigg & polton mill or if that would worse.

 

[Auld reekie]

Heh, this is just what i expected, not sure where the talk was on the 46 getting withdrawn? it didn't even show up on the timetable.

• West Maitland Street is going to get an uproar on Social Media i just know it.
• 36 changes seem very welcome, was worried they were gonna cut this service with it moving garages, but it seems to benefit it more
• Didn't expect to see a Sunday service for the 45, is it really that popular on the weekend now? maybe we can see a full service in the next change if this goes well!
• The N1 is an interesting concept, bet folk are going to be sore on missing the N22 and N26 in the West, would of loved to have seen a new night service like a N27
• So the X27/X28 Stopping Pattern is much similar to how it was in the olden days, missing out Chesser but prioritising Saughton Gardens.
• The X19 has survived almost a year, amazing.
• Pleased to see a better timetable for the 72, the 73 to Armadale is a nice touch and the 74 covering the missing link with the 73 is also nice, but what a long route.
• Didn't see that coming with the 106, it could be a popular choice, especully for a faster bus to Fort Kinnaird from Edinburgh, they could of just brought back the X6 all day but i guess this works well too i suppose, better than nothing.

Nothing really else to say, some good changes and some questionable ones.

West Maitland Street long overdue as it's always a shambles there.
It would possibly be OK if the Traffic Wardens did their job.
Always illegally parked cars.there.

 

[NorthEastern]

As expected nothing major however, yes there is some interesting changes. Such as the changes to some of the night buses, and the extension of service 106 to Western Hospital during the day.

The closure of the Straiton Park and Ride is no great surprise as most passengers were already using the bus service. Hopefully we sill see boost to the other more popular Park N rides such as Ingilston which badly needs more car parking spaces and Hermiston.

Some things missing from these changes includes a bus going into West Craigs, will these change now take place in early 2026? and fixing minor issues from the last lot of East Coast changes. One thing they will DEFFO need to do for next year is to put on a X5 jounrey around 18.30 to Edinburgh..

As for the West Lothian changes that needs a more detailed examination

Is the actual P&R closing or just that Lothian isn’t calling in there?

 

[Jonathan Lynch]

What are people’s thoughts on the fact that no Lothian services will actually serve Straiton P&R?

Based on current demand id say this is the correct decision.
However the A701 corridor between Straiton and Penicuik has seen vast amounts of housing in the past few years with bus demand not really changing much.
Its a shame as serviced correctly with a direct express service to the city at frequent times i think it could work.
I myself commute from the area and work at haymarket. I choose to drive west and pick up the tram as it far more frequent and reliable.
No real critisim for lothian as they are only following demand at a time when resources are short and have to be used in the best possible way.

 

[overthewater]

And there we have it: In terms of the West Lothian changes, as expected it would only be a small increase in the PVR AKA 4 buses.

* 2 on route 72.
* 2 for the all new 73.

Yes I have notice there also 2 new peak journeys being added on the X18 and X27. So tech we have seen an increase of 6 extra buses at peak times.

However I still think they could have done a better job with the extra 4 buses. Once again I have to wonder what the management is doing half the time, compared to many other compaines.

What are there trying to do with route of the New No73 is so confusing, why is it serving Houston road, and going on a long detour. The Winchburgh route around the village isn't the best either.

These change required less resources compared to introduction of the X19, I bet they will carry more passengers.

It's a start... that's all it is right now, and hopefully come next February/March/April we will see a further small increase of 3/4 buses which would finally being the network back to some sort of decent level. I doubt we will see X27/X28 back to every 15mins until 2027... but since we have around 4 spare off peak buses it might make it easier.

We are finally seeing light at the end of the tunnel but there still plenty more work for Lothian country to do.

 

[ScotRail158725]

First off the N1 is something im surprised we’ve not seen already or something similar for the likes of Lochend? Probably a welcome change

The execution of the 106 and 73/74 is questionable to say the least. The 74 taking the 73s route is certainly one way of fixing the problem but the 73 following the same route between Bathgate and Livingston South is a strange one with the way the 74 was extended. As was suggested here the best way to serve Livingston village would have been a service along to Seafield and Blackburn such as the old 21.

West Maitland street i have no words for how stupid that is. Omitting stops there at an interchange like that will just cause problems

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

And there we have it: In terms of the West Lothian changes, as expected it would only be a small increase in the PVR AKA 4 buses.

* 2 on route 72.
* 2 for the all new 73.

Yes I have notice there also 2 new peak journeys being added on the X18 and X27. So tech we have seen an increase of 6 extra buses at peak times.

However I still think they could have done a better job with the extra 4 buses. Once again I have to wonder what the management is doing half the time, compared to many other compaines.

What are there trying to do with route of the New No73 is so confusing, why is it serving Houston road, and going on a long detour. The Winchburgh route around the village isn't the best either.

These change required less resources compared to introduction of the X19, I bet they will carry more passengers.

It's a start... that's all it is right now, and hopefully come next February/March/April we will see a further small increase of 3/4 buses which would finally being the network back to some sort of decent level. I doubt we will see X27/X28 back to every 15mins until 2027... but since we have around 4 spare off peak buses it might make it easier.

We are finally seeing light at the end of the tunnel but there still plenty more work for Lothian country to do.

What I would say is, there’s a lot of improvements at the fringes of the timetable. That’s been as big a problem as hourly services. That’s entirely driver not bus dependent so makes the improvements look weaker than they are.

The way the 73 has been set up certainly feels very ‘trial’ like. The 73 serves the new bits while the 74 does what is already covered. Ie for whatever reason if it did spectacularly fail then it’s removed with the 74 untouched. I suspect this is the ultimate reason for the slightly confusing set up. If it’s successful then I’d like to see my suggestion or close to that happen. Maybe by then we can finally have the Bathgate-Birniehill-J4M8-Whitburn-Fauldhouse link covered and the 72 stopped at Whitburn.

Eventually if the 72 becomes half hourly. I can valid see reasons for it and the X19 interworking.

 

[buslad1988]

West Maitland street i have no words for how stupid that is. Omitting stops there at an interchange like that will just cause problems

People will simply need to adjust and interchange at the next stop at Shandwick Place.

West Maitland Street has been an issue for years. There simply isn’t enough space for umpteen buses stacking and servicing it when the stops are wedged between two sets of traffic lights and permanently have some kind of delivery vehicle or car parked in them. Rush hour is even worse when you have X buses waiting there to start too.

Certainly a good decision and one drivers are very pleased about.

 

[Auld reekie]

First off the N1 is something im surprised we’ve not seen already or something similar for the likes of Lochend? Probably a welcome change

The execution of the 106 and 73/74 is questiointercha

to say the least. The 74 taking the 73s route is certainly one way of fixing the problem but the 73 following the same route between Bathgate and Livingston South is a strange one with the way the 74 was extended. As was suggested here the best way to serve Livingston village would have been a service along to Seafield and Blackburn such as the old 21.

West Maitland street i have no words for how stupid that is. Omitting stops there at an interchange like that will just cause problems

What interchange is there?

 

[stevenedin]

Some interesting changes. I feel like the X27 and X28 should've stopped at Parkhead Post Office/Broomhouse Crescent instead of Saughton Mains/Parkhead Terrace stop due to the driver changeover happening at those stops causing delays or no room to stop. Or they could have stopped at Saughton Mains Avenue.

The N1 seems an interesting route. It reminds me of a similar N8 route that ran around the city centre to Muirhouse I think years ago.

They aren't clear about the N28 if it will serve all stops along Calder Road/Stenhouse Road/Gorgie Road/Stevenson Road or not. The bus stops are very confusing even now. Some have that they stop othwrs don't. I really hope that they update the bus stops and make it clear for passengers. I can see a lot of annoyance caused by the withdrawals anyway nevermind incorrect information at the stops.

Good to see that Macmerry is gaining their daytime service to Edinburgh again.

The new 73 seems an interesting route. Eliburn Park hasn't had or not that I can remember having had a bus service before.

Hopefully this allows the X19 to grow more and people will travel to Winchburgh to connect to the 72 to Livingston and beyond.

Is it just the 1 that is changing vehicles to double decker or is there any other changes? I've already noticed that the 1 is mostly double decker these days anyway.

Are there any vehicle movements or depot changes for routes?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Aug 2025 ==

What are people’s thoughts on the fact that no Lothian services will actually serve Straiton P&R?

Anytime I've been on the bus I've never seen anyone use it. The main road is close enough to the park and ride that I don't think they need to stop in the park and ride.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Aug 2025 ==

West Maitland Street long overdue as it's always a shambles there.
It would possibly be OK if the Traffic Wardens did their job.
Always illegally parked cars.there.

I agree. Better to have this stop skipped. All buses that stop there also stop on Shandwick Place anyway.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Is it just the 1 that is changing vehicles to double decker or is there any other changes? I've already noticed that the 1 is mostly double decker these days anyway.

Are there any vehicle movements or depot changes for routes?

The only route being converted should be the 1.

938 is currently Livingston bound. They will, as stated previously, require 4 extra buses for these changes. Clearly this creates an interesting scenario as there are considerably more than 4 of those.

 

[stevenedin]

On West Craig’s, they are currently redesigning the road up there which I think will give access to buses, potentially coming in from turnhouse road then out onto Craig’s road and into east Craig’s that way? I don’t know how it would work, if you had 1 bus terminate at east Craig’s then next at west Craig’s like the other end in Bonnyrigg & polton mill or if that would worse.

I can see it being like that either or. The other option would be to make a new route. Perhaps the 31 East Craigs could do East Craigs to Rosewell and 31A do West Craigs to Bonnyrigg and the 46 frequency reduced to hourly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Aug 2025 ==

The only route being converted should be the 1.

938 is currently Livingston bound. They will, as stated previously, require 4 extra buses for these changes. Clearly this creates an interesting scenario as there are considerably more than 4 of those.

Good news that at least one of this batch are finally getting a shot in West Lothian.

I take it 841-850 are definitely done now?

 

[Bus9120UK]

I can see it being like that either or. The other option would be to make a new route. Perhaps the 31 East Craigs could do East Craigs to Rosewell and 31A do West Craigs to Bonnyrigg and the 46 frequency reduced to hourly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Aug 2025 ==


Good news that at least one of this batch are finally getting a shot in West Lothian.

I take it 841-850 are definitely done now?

I can imagine that 846-848 will be swapped for 7900s in September once the changes come into effect and that will be the last of them.

 

[Metal Mickey]

Right, the gloves are coming off as some of you might not enjoy reading this.

The Lothian Country Network is still awful in my opinion. First Scotland East were slated for years but at least they offered a 30-35 minute journey time on a good frequency from Bathgate to Livingston on the 25 (previous 800) but I don’t think the 73 rerouting is going to cut it as the diversion via Houston Gate and Livingston Village is too indirect and will only frustrate passengers and also, the Armadale loop should be clockwise as it always was.

On the flip side, the City Network is still very good and East Coast is still fairly decent.

 

[buslad1988]

I can see it being like that either or. The other option would be to make a new route. Perhaps the 31 East Craigs could do East Craigs to Rosewell and 31A do West Craigs to Bonnyrigg and the 46 frequency reduced to hourly.

Lothian staff have been informed that once West Craigs is suitably ready the 31’s will simply divert to take in this development to/from East Craigs.

No split routes or new services required - much the same as the 44 taking in the new development to Wallyford.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Good news that at least one of this batch are finally getting a shot in West Lothian.

I take it 841-850 are definitely done now?

Yes I would suggest any return of 841-850 would be extremely unlikely now. Can’t say no but nothing to suggest it would happen.

As @Bus9120UK says, expect some of the freed up 7900’s from the 1 to see off 846-848.

 

[stevenedin]

Right, the gloves are coming off as some of you might not enjoy reading this.

The Lothian Country Network is still awful in my opinion. First Scotland East were slated for years but at least they offered a 30-35 minute journey time on a good frequency from Bathgate to Livingston on the 25 (previous 800) but I don’t think the 73 rerouting is going to cut it as the diversion via Houston Gate and Livingston Village is too indirect and will only frustrate passengers and also, the Armadale loop should be clockwise as it always was.

On the flip side, the City Network is still very good and East Coast is still fairly decent.

I just don't think that Lothian have ever got the West Lothian network correct apart from the X18, X27 and X28 routes which some could argue are mostly copy routes from the old First 10/X10, 27/X27 and 28/X28.

First always seemed to get the network right until Lothian Country arrived. It all went downhill from there.

It has improved slightly but I'm guessing it is resources that are required and reluctance to spend money on areas that are unprofitable.

I'd say bring back the 800 on top of these routes and it will get used well if the 21 was withdrawn.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Aug 2025 ==

Lothian staff have been informed that once West Craigs is suitably ready the 31’s will simply divert to take in this development to/from East Craigs.

No split routes or new services required - much the same as the 44 taking in the new development to Wallyford.

This will become a much longer journey if that's the case. They will need to add more buses to be able to accommodate that and East Craigs residents will probably not be happy with the detour.

 

[Metal Mickey]

I just don't think that Lothian have ever got the West Lothian network correct apart from the X18, X27 and X28 routes which some could argue are mostly copy routes from the old First 10/X10, 27/X27 and 28/X28.

First always seemed to get the network right until Lothian Country arrived. It all went downhill from there.

It has improved slightly but I'm guessing it is resources that are required and reluctance to spend money on areas that are unprofitable.

I'd say bring back the 800 on top of these routes and it will get used well if the 21 was withdrawn.

West Lothian was profitable for First from late 2014 when ScotRail undertakings ended until Lothian Country gradually expanded from late 2018 onwards.

 

[overthewater]

Right, the gloves are coming off as some of you might not enjoy reading this.

The Lothian Country Network is still awful in my opinion. First Scotland East were slated for years but at least they offered a 30-35 minute journey time on a good frequency from Bathgate to Livingston on the 25 (previous 800) but I don’t think the 73 rerouting is going to cut it as the diversion via Houston Gate and Livingston Village is too indirect and will only frustrate passengers and also, the Armadale loop should be clockwise as it always was.

On the flip side, the City Network is still very good and East Coast is still fairly decent.

We all know that is the case, however it should be noted the network under first until 2008? was also dire and if it wasn't for the likes of Passenger transport, Davidsons, Nordi travel etc First would have never created the likes of the 800, or have fast bus to Broxburn via the fast link etc. To be fair, everyone has been crap. I've tried to be positive, Lothian has started to improve the network but there's still got plenty of work to do, and hopefully the next service change we will see some further improvements.

The route around Armadale as always anticlockwise, which reflect route 29.

I just don't think that Lothian have ever got the West Lothian network correct apart from the X18, X27 and X28 routes which some could argue are mostly copy routes from the old First 10/X10, 27/X27 and 28/X28.

First always seemed to get the network right until Lothian Country arrived. It all went downhill from there.
It has improved slightly but I'm guessing it is resources that are required and reluctance to spend money on areas that are unprofitable.I'd say bring back the 800 on top of these routes and it will get used well if the 21 was withdrawn.

The reason First got rid of it's X27/28 was because there were much faster routes running about. Infact X27 was better when it went Whitburn, I think that ship has sailed and is never coming back.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Does anyone know what deckers the 1 will likely see??

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Aug 2025 ==

Does anyone know what deckers the 1 will likely see??

I've heard Electric.

As for Straiton, it's barely used and a complete waste of 2-3 minutes going into it.

 

[buslad1988]

This will become a much longer journey if that's the case. They will need to add more buses to be able to accommodate that and East Craigs residents will probably not be happy with the detour.

As already stated, no different for Wallyford with the 44 - residents have had to accept that. Probably will be a few grumbles initially but is what it is.

On a seperate note the 5 going to every 15 minutes is another preparation for the BZL’s.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

As already stated, no different for Wallyford with the 44 - residents have had to accept that. Probably will be a few grumbles initially but is what it is.

On a seperate note the 5 going to every 15 minutes is another preparation for the BZL’s.

It is, but I think an alternative might be to extend the X47 to East Craigs. This should limit the issues in the peak. Unlike Wallyford, the 31 is bound to get stuck coming down Turnhouse Road. There’s an argument to extend the 47/B, but that seems a bit too ambitious.

The 31 will happen, but it won’t be without its problems. There’s an easy solution to helping it out with the X47 there.