Why did Tramlink not go to Selsdon/Sanderstead?

[frankmoh]

Just wondering about this considering Tramlink uses much of the Woodside & South Croydon's alignment from Woodside (duh) to Coombe Road.

 

[JonathanH]

Just wondering about this considering Tramlink uses much of the Woodside & South Croydon's alignment from Woodside (duh) to Coombe Road.

If it did, wouldn't there need to be a lower frequency to New Addington, which was the primary traffic objective?

It couldn't actually go to Sanderstead very easily as it couldn't run there from the junction.

Where do you feel is underserved? I don't think there have ever been any realistic proposals to extend it to Purley or Selsdon.

 

[PGAT]

The tram wouldn’t bring anything to the table and would be slower than the 403 bus that would get you into Croydon (and the train obviously as well).

The stop at Selsdon is a misnomer; it’s far closer to South Croydon and completely misses out on any demand that would be associated with Selsdon.

 

[frankmoh]

If it did, wouldn't there need to be a lower frequency to New Addington, which was the primary traffic objective?

It couldn't actually go to Sanderstead very easily as it couldn't run there from the junction.

Where do you feel is underserved? I don't think there have ever been any realistic proposals to extend it to Purley or Selsdon.

Not undeserved, I actually live nowhere near Selsdon. I'm just wonder why they chose to use some, but not all, of the W&SC's former route.

 

[JonathanH]

Not undeserved

Under-served, not un-deserved.

The point is am making is that once you get to Coombe Road, how much further could thd tram run before running out of trackbed, given it can't use the railway tracks to Sanderstead, and is a tramstop needed there?

 

[frankmoh]

Under-served, not un-deserved.

The point is am making is that once you get to Coombe Road, how much further could thd tram run before running out of trackbed, given it can't use the railway tracks to Sanderstead, and is a tramstop needed there?

I guess not. Especially considering Selsdon station wasn't near Selsdon proper. (...reminds me of Addiscombe)

 

[W-on-Sea]

There's a relatively low population density down there, and neither of the former stations were particularly well-suited, whereas New Addington (almost like a mini-Thamesmead) was a relatively dense housing estate that had been crying out for better public transport links for decades (as seen by the various attempts to run express bus services between there and Croydon from the 1960s onwards). I

I think really the point is that NA was the obvious target for Tramlink, and using part of the old line through Bingham and Coombe Road stations was a helpful, although not essential, way to get there.

 

[Hophead]

It is unfortunate, though, that the tram barely reaches New Addington itself. I vaguely remember that the tracks were intended to extend a little further but presumably the money only went so far.

 

[frankmoh]

It is unfortunate, though, that the tram barely reaches New Addington itself. I vaguely remember that the tracks were intended to extend a little further but presumably the money only went so far.

Same with Elmers End, but at least the bay platform at the train station already existed unlike anything in New Addington.

 

[zwk500]

I'm just wonder why they chose to use some, but not all, of the W&SC's former route.

Presumably because they were trying to build a useful tramlink and the railway offered a useful opportunity, rather than simply trying to reopen railways.

 

[steamybrian]

It is unfortunate, though, that the tram barely reaches New Addington itself. I vaguely remember that the tracks were intended to extend a little further but presumably the money only went so far.

It terminates in the centre of New Addington close to the Central Parade shopping centre and leisure centre. There was an early proposal to extend it further along the Central Parade but in my opinion I accept there seemed little value in doing so.

 

[35B]

It’s also worth looking at the history of the Selsdon line - never an economic success, or blessed with much traffic.

 

[Railcar]

A useful extension to Tramlink would be from Beckenham Junction to Bromley South. According to platform staff at Bromley South, there is always a demand for a train from Platform 1 that calls at Beckenham Junction (some do, some don't). The extension would involve street-running.

 

[Mark L]

There's a relatively low population density down there, and neither of the former stations were particularly well-suited, whereas New Addington (almost like a mini-Thamesmead) was a relatively dense housing estate that had been crying out for better public transport links for decades (as seen by the various attempts to run express bus services between there and Croydon from the 1960s onwards). I

I think really the point is that NA was the obvious target for Tramlink, and using part of the old line through Bingham and Coombe Road stations was a helpful, although not essential, way to get there.

The first express bus service to New Addington was introduced in August 1955.

 

[AlastairFraser]

A useful extension to Tramlink would be from Beckenham Junction to Bromley South. According to platform staff at Bromley South, there is always a demand for a train from Platform 1 that calls at Beckenham Junction (some do, some don't). The extension would involve street-running.

Why not Bromley North via Shortlands station and Glassmill Lane? That would give better links to Bromley town centre, and potentially the Bakerloo if it ever makes it to Bromley.

 

[frankmoh]

Why not Bromley North via Shortlands station and Glassmill Lane? That would give better links to Bromley town centre, and potentially the Bakerloo if it ever makes it to Bromley.

I guess it's because there's a route between Beckenham Junction and Bromley South?

Losing the connection to Charing Cross would be a real kick in the teeth for Bromley commuters, which I assume is the only reason the Bromley North line still exists now.

Also the Bakerloo Line not going to London Bridge is annoying for a myriad of other reasons but there's a thread for that.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I guess it's because there's a route between Beckenham Junction and Bromley South?

Losing the connection to Charing Cross would be a real kick in the teeth for Bromley commuters, which I assume is the only reason the Bromley North line still exists now.

Also the Bakerloo Line not going to London Bridge is annoying for a myriad of other reasons but there's a thread for that.

True, I think it would be difficult to find room on the railway alignment to Bromley South, and the roads are quite congested at the Bromley end.
Bromley North would work so well with a through Bakerloo service (especially as you could change at Grove Park for alternatives still), but I agree, for another thread.

 

[SYorksKent]

I'm no expert but I live locally. Glassmill Lane is narrow and has tight bends. I think it impossible to fit a tram alignment through there without encroaching on adjacent land/properties

 

[izvor]

I think really the point is that NA was the obvious target for Tramlink, and using part of the old line through Bingham and Coombe Road stations was a helpful, although not essential, way to get there.

Exactly.

It is unfortunate, though, that the tram barely reaches New Addington itself. I vaguely remember that the tracks were intended to extend a little further but presumably the money only went so far.

Yes I remember raising this at a public meeting at the planning stage. A short extension up towards Homestead Way would have been easy and served more housing and schools, avoiding interchange. It was "one for the future" though.

It would also have created a more useful kicking-off point for any extension to Biggin Hill, which has been mooted over the years - another large settlement without a rail service, and the local roads are atrocious. However the London Borough of Bromley have not been supportive as they perceive it as abstracting traffic from Bromley town centre to Croydon, rather than an overall gain in public transport provision.

A useful extension to Tramlink would be from Beckenham Junction to Bromley South.

Croydon to Bromley is such a logical tram route isn't it? However, again IIRC LB Bromley have not been favourable to Tramlink, and a new alignment from Beckenham Jc would require expensive works. And now the excellent new SL5 "Superloop" bus service links the two centres well.

 

[frankmoh]

Croydon to Bromley is such a logical tram route isn't it? However, again IIRC LB Bromley have not been favourable to Tramlink, and a new alignment from Beckenham Jc would require expensive works. And now the excellent new SL5 "Superloop" bus service links the two centres well.

Not chuffed about SL5 skipping Beckenham, although the high street has always been terrible for traffic.

 

[stevieinselby]

It is unfortunate, though, that the tram barely reaches New Addington itself. I vaguely remember that the tracks were intended to extend a little further but presumably the money only went so far.

Where else would you run it? Beyond the current terminus, you would be running on-street with no priority measures, and loss of on-street parking, so it's hard to see what it would add – and where would you find space for a new terminus? The current route serves 3 stations within New Addington, which gives pretty much all residents a tram stop within a 15 minute walk.

When Tramlink was set up, there were two new bus routes, the T31 and T32, which were designed to give all residents high-frequency connections to the tram – these routes ran for 15 years before being discontinued in 2015 and replaced with an extended route 64 that now runs all round the houses, and gives residents the choice of either catching it all the way to Croydon or using it to connect with the trams.