It was quite heavily robbed when it was at Landore. The parts had been sourced and its SDO/67 push pull mods fitted as far as im aware. It does look rather sad for itself.
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TfW Class 67+Mk4 sets: trip planning/experiences, diagram updates etc
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Welshguy1048
Established Member
Thats fair enough about Wilmslow. My post was more about the fact the Swansea service this week has only had 1 day out of 5 where it has made it completely from Swansea to Manchester and with the correct booked traction.
But putting aside the issue with Swansea, its still a very unreliable service which is a shame as the First Class is excellent. I agree that 197s would be far better as long as there was some sort of proper First Class offering on every hourly Swansea-Manchester. At the moment it is inconsistent. One train per 2 hours is a MK4 (or meant to be) with First Class and Buffet Counter for Standard Class and then one train per 2 hours is a 197 (booked 5 cars) but with no First Class but usually a trolley service. It would be nice to have a more consistent service.
But putting aside the issue with Swansea, its still a very unreliable service which is a shame as the First Class is excellent. I agree that 197s would be far better as long as there was some sort of proper First Class offering on every hourly Swansea-Manchester. At the moment it is inconsistent. One train per 2 hours is a MK4 (or meant to be) with First Class and Buffet Counter for Standard Class and then one train per 2 hours is a 197 (booked 5 cars) but with no First Class but usually a trolley service. It would be nice to have a more consistent service.
DannyMich2018
Member
- Joined
- 19 Dec 2018
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- 943
197s yes certainly have their problems of course but just by looking at this thread these are sadly worse and not reliable enough currently.
Topological
Established Member
Exactly
197s do have problems, but they are a large fleet and therefore it is possible to keep the service running. The 197s also do not seem to sit down mid-service in the ways the 67s and Mk4 (doors) are doing. Of course, I may be very wrong.
I appreciate @Jez arguments for first class. However, we did not have it before the Mk4 experiment and I do not think it will be too much of a loss if it goes again.
It is also worth remembering that 197s are having to cover for all the gaps in the Mk4 service, before anyone starts talking about shortforms on the 197 diagrams.
I am sure someone has fleet availability percentages and the MPIN* numbers.
The Mk4s are lovely trains, but they don't seem to work with 67s like they do with 91s, and there are just too many compromises made to make them fit.
Whilst First Class isnt essential for this route it is an excellent service. However on the few occasions ive used it, it wasnt exactly busy so perhaps it wouldnt be that much of a loss.
craigybagel
Established Member
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- 25 Oct 2012
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- 5,829
As they are right now, no they're not fully compatible with the MKIVs, but then neither were the 67s originally. Could they be modded in the same way? Probably. Would they? There's been no signs of that happening yet.
The vast majority of the 3 week traction course for TfW drivers on 67/MKIVs is dedicated just to the locos. Converting about 160 drivers to 68 would not come cheap, even before you factor all the other expenses of switching over the locos. And a lot of money has already been sunk into the 67s.
Considering the amount of money that has been invested into the 67's, with hindsight they would have been better off with the original plan of 5 car 197s on all Manchester services. As @Topological quite correctly pointed out this would have also been more convenient for both passengers and operationally at Cardiff with no need to split every 2 hours. Even though a good percentage of passengers do not travel either side of Cardiff it is surprising sometimes on the services that still run through from West Wales to Manchester just how many people do make journeys from Swansea etc to stations on the Marches and also to Crewe to change for other routes from there.
I realise the plan was changed because the 170s were no longer staying rather than the need for something better to operate the Manchesters. Personally i find the 197s perfectly fine for long distance travel and the comfort is more than adequate in my opinion. And if every service was 5 cars as booked then most of the time there should be plenty of seats Its a shame we are now stuck with the under performing MK4's even if the service is excellent when they run.
Does anyone know what the plans are for the MK4's over the weekend? Looks like we had 197018 on 1W11 this morning but nothing showing for 1W61. All others seem to be MK4's as it stands at the moment.
craigybagel
Established Member
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I'm not going to get into the tedious argument about the rights and wrongs of 197a Vs 67s for Manchester again. And it's all pointless anyway, the decision was already made several years ago.
I will remind people though that the 197s are far from shining beacons of reliability themselves - they just get away with more because there's a larger pool of them to cover for the broken ones, and they have more redundancies to help the ones that break during the day keep limping along in service.
Every decision that was made was logical at the time. Things just haven't been as reliable as was hoped for.
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Just boarded the 13:59 from Hereford to Manchester and was rather baffled to be offered a breakfast menu! Considering it arrives in Manchester after 4pm it seems like a bit of an odd choice...
That does seem odd. Even on a weekend! On a Saturday until recently I didn't realise they had a chef on board.
Anonymous10
Established Member
Perhaps it was a mistake and they were handing out the wrong menu? Or its what was loaded so they are using it? Sure there's a explanation somewhere.
The fact that the chef was no longer available after Shrewsbury suggests it was just the remainder of whatever was loaded in the morning.
As it happens I did avail of breakfast on a morning service earlier and was genuinely impressed from start to finish with it!
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BillStampy
Established Member
Once again another example of 1V50 suddenly being able to go to Swansea on Saturday, I really don't understand what's so different about Saturday when 1V62 is still meant to be a MK4 (today it is a unit substitute but that's beside the point). When I was travelling on 1V50 on Thursday, quite a few passengers had to ask the conductor what to do when their tickets showed stations beyond Cardiff (for example, Bridgend and Port Talbot) because the system allowed them to book the ticket when 1V50 still was scheduled to head to Swansea when they booked, eventually changing short term plan to Cardiff again! It's not particularly ideal and creates unnessecary confusion. The service and ECS does not change at all in the newly released December timetable on RTT and I fear that this confusion will just carry on in the long term.
BillStampy
Established Member
Realtime Trains | 5Z84 0816 Cardiff Canton Sidings to Crewe C.S. | 11/08/2025
Real-time train running information for 5Z84 0816 departure from Cardiff Canton Sidings to Crewe C.S. on 11/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
What I can assume is HD03 heading to Crewe as it's due an exam.
Welshguy1048
Established Member
Morning
Will 1W96 tonight be loco or DVT leading from Chester to Holyhead please ?
Thank you
Dave
Will 1W96 tonight be loco or DVT leading from Chester to Holyhead please ?
Thank you
Dave
37052 xb mr
Established Member
DVT leading Set HD05 67010
Welshguy1048
Established Member
mikestone1952
Member
- Joined
- 12 Feb 2011
- Messages
- 299
As well as 5Z84 booked via Chester presumably to get it the appropriate way round, 1W55 also seems to have run via Chester and terminated at Crewe for no obvious reason other than to make its back working.
Diverted due to points failure at Shrewsbury.
Jacob Porrett
Established Member
Today at Crewe depot: (11/8/25)
HD04 connected to 67016
HD03 was connected to 67025 before they took it off.
Are they swapping locos around?
HD04 connected to 67016
HD03 was connected to 67025 before they took it off.
Are they swapping locos around?
025 will be a Thunderbird based in Crewe Station from tomorrow
Welshguy1048
Established Member
@sd0733
@37052 xb mr
@MP393
Afternoon
What is on 1W96 tonight please and will it be loco or DVT leading from Chester ?
Thank you
Dave
@37052 xb mr
@MP393
Afternoon
What is on 1W96 tonight please and will it be loco or DVT leading from Chester ?
Thank you
Dave
37052 xb mr
Established Member
Loco 67020
Welshguy1048
Established Member
Jacob Porrett
Established Member
Today at Crewe depot (12/8/25):
HD03
67025 light engine
67016 connected to HD04.
Any idea when HD03 will receive a loco please?
HD03
67025 light engine
67016 connected to HD04.
Any idea when HD03 will receive a loco please?
025 should go back on it tomorrow with 016 taking over as the Thunderbird after dropping HD04.at the ETD for tyre turning.
Thunderbird is now prepped but kept at ATC rather than the original plan of putting it in the station.
Jacob Porrett
Established Member
Thank you.