East-West Rail (EWR) countdown to entry into service

[cle]

The connection times are interesting - clearly with even tighter timing, the potential is really there to beat the status quo, even directs, via MKC. And a no-brainer for Parkway users.

How do journeys like Oxford or Bicester - Coventry compare?

Or Liverpool - which is obviously slow as anything via Birmingham. And requiring a change (e.g. Oxford-Liverpool) - this would surely become the de facto route.

 

[A S Leib]

The connection times are interesting - clearly with even tighter timing, the potential is really there to beat the status quo, even directs, via MKC. And a no-brainer for Parkway users.

How do journeys like Oxford or Bicester - Coventry compare?

Or Liverpool - which is obviously slow as anything via Birmingham. And requiring a change (e.g. Oxford-Liverpool) - this would surely become the de facto route.

Looking at paths in next Monday (only westbound)

Bicester North to Coventry is currently ~1:00 with an 11-18 minute change at Banbury or Leamington Spa. Bicester Village to Coventry would work out at ~1:20 to Bicester Village with a 24 minute change at MKC, so I suspect either could work out preferable if cost-agnostic.

Leaving Coventry at 14:26 currently means getting to Oxford at 15:15; to get to Oxford at 15:18 via Winslow would mean leaving Coventry by 13:35, so much quicker via Banbury.

Liverpool Lime Street 12:43 – 14:27 Milton Keynes Central
Milton Keynes Central 14:39 – 15:18 Oxford (2:35 total)

Liverpool 12:12 – 13:28 Wolverhampton
Wolverhampton 13:39 – 15:15 Oxford (3:03 total; half an hour quicker via Winslow for Liverpool to Oxford. Given that that's close to a perfect connection at Wolverhampton and MKC–Oxford will be every 30 minutes, I think Winslow would always win.)

 

[Nottingham59]

Liverpool 12:12 – 13:28 Wolverhampton
Wolverhampton 13:39 – 15:15 Oxford (3:03 total; half an hour quicker via Winslow for Liverpool to Oxford. Given that that's close to a perfect connection at Wolverhampton and MKC–Oxford will be every 30 minutes, I think Winslow would always win.)

Now that is interesting. And presumably the same advantage for Manchester-Oxford?

 

[Falcon1200]

And presumably the same advantage for Manchester-Oxford?

Doubtful surely, because Manchester/Oxford is a direct service?

 

[Zomboid]

Now that is interesting. And presumably the same advantage for Manchester-Oxford?

Heading the other direction, the 1415 Avanti from Manchester has a 20 minute connection at MK into the 1616 to Oxford, arriving 1702 for a journey time of 2h47 Meanwhile the 1425 XC gets in at 1716, 2h50.

At least for Oxford journeys it's clearly a competitive option, and for OXP it's probably better.

There's direct XCs from Manchester so it's competitive and not overtaken, but direct is slightly faster northbound and near as makes no difference southbound

 

[A S Leib]

Now that is interesting. And presumably the same advantage for Manchester-Oxford?

Manchester 12:25 – 15:15 Oxford

Manchester 12:30 – 13:08 Crewe (TfW)
Crewe 13:22 – 14:27 MKC (ex-Liverpool)
MKC 14:39 – 15:18 Oxford

So effectively no difference in time; which is preferable would be down to fares, views on Voyagers and willingness to change trains. That also keeps the direct service quicker for Reading and south to Manchester.

 

[Starmill]

Manchester - Oxford tickets are unlikely to be valid on this route unless it's added wholesale to a large number of maps. I'd hope it would be but we don't seem to have confirmation either way.

The alternative is that Avanti might set fares on route Winslow, say. I know WMT are at least looking at making sure fares to the Oxford area will be available so hopefully others are too.

 

[Jamesrob637]

But how about Wilmslow to Winslow?

 

[A S Leib]

Corby to Oxford will work out at 2:30 against 3:00 with the official connection times via London. Leicester to Oxford is 2:23 via Nuneaton (either changing there and Coventry or New Street) so would still be faster that way. I think Bedford to Reading would work out at around two hours either way; probably faster via Winslow with cross-Bletchley services and fewer Marston Vale stops.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Manchester - Oxford tickets are unlikely to be valid on this route unless it's added wholesale to a large number of maps. I'd hope it would be but we don't seem to have confirmation either way.

The alternative is that Avanti might set fares on route Winslow, say. I know WMT are at least looking at making sure fares to the Oxford area will be available so hopefully others are too.

Splitting is now so mainstream I doubt it really matters whether there are through fares that way or not. Having said that, I don't think Trainline's splitting engine will offer an itinerary on which there isn't a through fare even if it will also sell splits, so unless they did I think people would still be fairly heavily directed to XC.

 

[Zomboid]

I can't imagine that an "any permitted" route won't be permitted via Winslow if that's a sensible route to take for that journey. The whole point of the line is connectivity. It'll create a bit of a database update, but that's hardly impossible.

I think Oxford to points north tickets are often presently available as "any permitted" (which allows a trip via London) or "via Banbury".

When the first phase was opened (Oxford - Bicester), I think that's when a London via High Wycombe route became available, and the any permitted allows travel that way or via Reading. So there's precedent.

 

[A S Leib]

Based off of paths in RTT for next Monday and assuming an evenly spread 2tph, I think the times via Winslow will be

	MAN	LIV	CRE	COV	NOT	LEI	BDM
OXF	3:05	3:26	2:22	1:30	3:24	2:52	1:27
SWI	4:23	4:44	3:40	2:48	4:42	4:10	2:45
BRI	5:05	5:26	4:22	3:30	5:24	4:52	3:27
CDF	5:40	6:01	4:57	4:05	5:59	5:27	4:02
RDG	3:51	4:12	3:08	2:16	4:10	3:38	2:13
BSK	4:30	4:51	3:47	2:55	4:49	4:17	2:52
SOU	5:13	5:34	4:30	3:38	5:32	5:00	3:35

(First column: Oxford, Swindon, Bristol Temple Meads, Cardiff Central, Reading, Basingstoke, Southampton Central; top row: Manchester Piccadilly, Liverpool Lime Street, Crewe, Coventry, Nottingham, Leicester, Bedford. Red text is over an hour slower via Winslow; green text over an hour quicker.)

Current fastest times leaving at 08:00 are

	MAN	LIV	CRE	COV	NOT	LEI	BDM
OXF	2:49	3:02	2:20	0:48	2:57	2:24	2:32
SWI	3:37	3:50	3:08	1:43	3:08	2:48	2:30
BRI	3:04	3:20	2:35	1:55	2:37	2:41	3:16
CDF	3:07	3:29	2:27	2:31	3:16	3:11	3:30
RDG	3:14	3:28	2:45	1:11	2:48	2:22	1:59
BSK	3:44	4:01	3:15	1:43	3:16	2:47	2:25
SOU	4:16	4:39	3:50	2:16	3:57	3:21	3:04

Of course it's going to be useful for Oxford, Bicester, Milton Keynes, Bedford and (eventually) Cambridge, and possibly places like Peterborough, Luton and Northampton; less so for places much further away, unless trying to get from there to Winslow.

 

[Starmill]

When the first phase was opened (Oxford - Bicester), I think that's when a London via High Wycombe route became available, and the any permitted allows travel that way or via Reading. So there's precedent.

London - Oxford doesn't have a route High Wycombe / Chiltern only option, and I don't think it ever has. Oxford Parkway, Islip and Bicester Village do have a choice but there's almost nothing in it.

Perhaps you were thinking of something more along the lines of Oxford - High Wycombe, which did gain a Chiltern only fare, which was notable at the time for not being something like via Bicester Village. I would imagine that since the new service started the other ticket options for that journey are probably unsold.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2025 ==

Splitting is now so mainstream I doubt it really matters whether there are through fares that way or not. Having said that, I don't think Trainline's splitting engine will offer an itinerary on which there isn't a through fare even if it will also sell splits, so unless they did I think people would still be fairly heavily directed to XC.

Existing users on the CrossCountry website would be very unlikely to realise, for example.

 

[Zomboid]

London - Oxford doesn't have a route High Wycombe / Chiltern only option, and I don't think it ever has. Oxford Parkway, Islip and Bicester Village do have a choice but there's almost nothing in it.

I normally use Parkway for shorter trips, so that's probably what I'm thinking of. And yes, it's about 10p cheaper via Wycombe (which is why I never buy it, the flexibility is worth 10p).

But the Any Permitted Oxford to Glasgow is valid via London, so I can't see why it wouldn't be valid via Winslow. (You probably wouldn't choose that route since the fast Glasgow doesn't stop before Warrington, and getting to Warrington isn't fast).

 

[Bletchleyite]

London - Oxford doesn't have a route High Wycombe / Chiltern only option, and I don't think it ever has. Oxford Parkway, Islip and Bicester Village do have a choice but there's almost nothing in it.

To my surprise it indeed doesn't. However there are Advances for both routes, and a useful aspect of the Chiltern services is that there are no evening peak restrictions on the Off Peak fare from Marylebone, whereas there are for Paddington.

 

[fishwomp]

The omni-shambles of launching a railway made it into Private Eye this week.

In a nutshell:
- DfT has written off £2.6M because opening the line has stalled but the rolling stock has arrived on time.
-- 12 carriages lease agreed in April 2022 to start December 2023 for testing.
-- Lease date adjusted to August 2024, but East West Rail Ltd liable for funding from Dec 2023 to Aug 2024 - write off £2,566,000
- DfT's annual report said service to start in August 2025, but Network Rail now say "late 2025". Chiltern say they are "confident" they will start running "this year"

Well, they should better do better than the zero training runs today. Freight companies must be enjoying the reliability.. although only two look booked for it today.

 

[DavidGrain]

I was on the Pathfinders tour in February and other tours have also run. Some freight services are running. The trains have been available for months and had been tested by WMR in public service before transfer to Chiltern. It has been an open secret that Chiltern would be the operator long before the official announcement. Training has taken place both traction and route learning. The paths for the timetabled service have been in the working timetable for months.

So I think the public is owed an explanation for the delay. Almost certainly DfT are having to pick up the costs so taxpayers nationally are having to fund this as part of the Black Hole the government are talking about

 

[sqwizz]

Is it possible the uncertainty over London Road in Bicester is causing the hold up? I don't understand what we're waiting for.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interestingly Chiltern's timetable for December has been entered but there is nothing for EWR - even the test/shadow service paths are not loaded.

 

[fishwomp]

So I think the public is owed an explanation for the delay. Almost certainly DfT are having to pick up the costs so taxpayers nationally are having to fund this as part of the Black Hole the government are talking about

Local MPs haven't been jumping up and down , they should be..

Heidi Alexander complained about the 701s not being used, hauled the franchisee in (but they were due to handover to government weeks later), why isn't she doing something about this..

 

[DarloRich]

There was a strange ECS working from Oxford to Bletchley about midnight yesterday: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:S52589/2025-08-07/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[zwk500]

There was a strange ECS working from Oxford to Bletchley about midnight yesterday: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:S52589/2025-08-07/detailed#allox_id=0

An out-and-back return trip from Bletchley TMD to Oxford by the look of it:

Realtime Trains | 5F01 2103 Bletchley T.M.D. to Milton Keynes Central | 07/08/2025

Real-time train running information for 5F01 2103 departure from Bletchley T.M.D. to Milton Keynes Central on 07/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5F02 2148 Milton Keynes Central to Oxford | 07/08/2025

Real-time train running information for 5F02 2148 departure from Milton Keynes Central to Oxford on 07/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Not sure if it was testing something on the unit, just a driver familiarisation run or something else.

 

[Nottingham59]

Local MPs haven't been jumping up and down , they should be..

Why? How many constituents are complaining about the lack of trains? Where is the demand going to come from?

 

[DarloRich]

Not sure if it was testing something on the unit, just a driver familiarisation run or something else.

thanks - strange to be out so late!

 

[The exile]

Why? How many constituents are complaining about the lack of trains? Where is the demand going to come from?

This is of course the issue - no one is actually being caused any inconvenience by the continued lack of something that hasn’t existed for 60-odd years, other , I suppose than anyone who has moved or changed jobs of the basis that trains would be running by now. That’ll be a fairly small cohort.

 

[zwk500]

This is of course the issue - no one is actually being caused any inconvenience by the continued lack of something that hasn’t existed for 60-odd years.

Although we will be - because the government is paying interest on the debt used to finance the line now, but earning very little money directly and not enabling the wider development the passenger service is meant to facilitate. But that's a rather abstract thing and won't be felt in wallets and purses.

Of course the other reason why the DfT should be explaining themselves is to be held to account. There's lots of perfectly good reasons why the line might be delayed, but until they set out if that's the case, the possibility remains that the line is not yet open for silly reasons.

 

[The exile]

Although we will be - because the government is paying interest on the debt used to finance the line now, but earning very little money directly and not enabling the wider development the passenger service is meant to facilitate. But that's a rather abstract thing and won't be felt in wallets and purses.

Of course the other reason why the DfT should be explaining themselves is to be held to account. There's lots of perfectly good reasons why the line might be delayed, but until they set out if that's the case, the possibility remains that the line is not yet open for silly reasons.

Obviously there are negative consequences - but not that hit individuals in the way that cramming into short-formed 455s while shiny new trains sit very visibly in the sidings does!

 

[djox]

Why? How many constituents are complaining about the lack of trains? Where is the demand going to come from?

I just did to my Oxford MP. Let's see what she says.

 

[cle]

Is it as simple as driver recruitment, often is. Especially requiring a 2tph service all week, even Sundays.

It’s pretty weird though, admittedly.

 

[WolvertonWorks]

I just did to my Oxford MP. Let's see what she says.

I've just emailed mine, Emily Darlington MP for Central MK, to ask what she can find out.