Need advice for letter response

[Passenger1]

Hi all,
I have just received a notice of intention to prosecute letter from Govia Thameslink Railway. This is regarding an incident in which I could not produce a valid railcard to accompany my ticket.

I have read some of the threads on this forum and most people say that in the response you should apologise and make it clear that you won’t do it again.

I can do this no problem however I am unsure of exactly how to respond. Should I give them a reason as to why I thought my railcard was still valid or should I just apologise for this incident and say I won’t do it again. The problem with saying that I thought it was still valid insinuates that I’ve travelled with an expired railcard before (I have), so I don’t want to give them a reason to look through my booking history. Also, they only mentioned this specific incident in the letter.
I would appreciate any advice on how to respond.

 

[John R]

Can you please upload the letter you have received, with your personal details redacted.

However, from what you say, it's quite in order to say that you didn't realise it had expired (assuming that is true), and they will be very used to that as a reason for the offence. If you buy your tickets online they can very easily check (and in most cases, do) whether you have used it any other times since it expired, so I don't think there is any disadvantage in saying so.

Do feel free to post a draft of what you propose to say and experts here will happily advise you of its suitability.

 

[Passenger1]

Hello and thank you for your response.
I have attached the letter I received and a draft reply. Are there any amendments I should make?

My main issue is that my railcard had been expired for a long period of time (about two years). Whilst I am not an everyday commuter I still get the train about two times per month so there will have been a lot of times that I’ve used an invalid ticket without realising. The reason why I thought it was still valid is included in the response. Is this worth mentioning or should I cut it out? I only realised after I went to buy a new railcard after this incident that the railcard I bought initially would only have been valid for a year.

 

[jfollows]

They will almost certainly look through your online purchase history anyway.
If you ask for an out of court settlement it’s usually on the basis of unpaid fares plus a settlement fee.

 

[Passenger1]

Hi all,
I have just received a notice of intention to prosecute letter from Govia Thameslink Railway. This is regarding an incident in which I could not produce a valid railcard to accompany my ticket.

I have read some of the threads on this forum and most people say that in the response you should apologise and make it clear that you won’t do it again.

I can do this no problem however I am unsure of exactly how to respond. Should I give them a reason as to why I thought my railcard was still valid or should I just apologise for this incident and say I won’t do it again. The problem with saying that I thought it was still valid insinuates that I’ve travelled with an expired railcard before (I have), so I don’t want to give them a reason to look through my booking history. Also, they only mentioned this specific incident in the letter.
I would appreciate any advice on how to respond.

@Hadders I have seen you give some good advice to other people on this forum. I would appreciate your help on this.
Thanks

 

[John R]

@Hadders I have seen you give some good advice to other people on this forum. I would appreciate your help on this.
Thanks

We ask that individuals are not tagged on this board. Hadders will respond if available but there are many others here able to give good advice.

It would also help if you could show the text of your response here as part of the message rather than as an attachment, as it is much easier for people to view and comment on.

 

[30907]

@Hadders I have seen you give some good advice to other people on this forum. I would appreciate your help on this.
Thanks

Search for his posts and follow the advice there. it's unlikely to be much different.

 

[Passenger1]

We ask that individuals are not tagged on this board. Hadders will respond if available but there are many others here able to give good advice.

It would also help if you could show the text of your response here as part of the message rather than as an attachment, as it is much easier for people to view and

OK sorry about that. Here is my response.

Dear Sir/Madam

On X date I was questioned by one of your Revenue Protection Officers as to why I could not produce a valid railcard to accompany my ticket from X to X. I explained to the officer that I did not know how to find my railcard as this was the first time I had been asked to produce it. I cooperated with the officer, and I provided him with all of the information that he requested. I was then issued a GTREM by the officer.

Upon returning home I realized that my railcard must have expired as I could not find it anywhere on my phone. I thought that it was still valid as the discount that I had applied when I bought my railcard still worked. I apologise for this as I should have been aware that my railcard had expired, and I have since purchased a new railcard which I will produce on future journeys.

I am hoping that this matter can be resolved as quickly as possible, and without the necessity for legal action. I accept responsibility for my actions, and I am happy to pay any outstanding fee for my travel, and any penalty fee that you deem necessary. I will also pay for the administrative costs in dealing with this matter.

Once more I apologise for my actions and any inconvenience they may have caused. I hope we can reach an agreement that is desirable for both parties, and I will ensure that I abide by all ticketing rules in the future.

Yours Sincerely,

 

[John R]

A couple of points:-

Upon returning home I realized that my railcard must have expired as I could not find it anywhere on my phone.

suggests that you never found it, which may make the investigators think you had never had one (remember, they deal with a lot of less than honest people, so will often read between the lines as to what is said)

and:-

I explained to the officer that I did not know how to find my railcard as this was the first time I had been asked to produce it.

You are supposed to produce it on every journey, so travelling without even knowing how to find it does sound at best rather careless, and at worst reckless.

It would help your case too if you state the serial number of your new railcard, and the date of purchase, just to reinforce that you have definitely bought one. And how are you going to be sure that you will remember in future - if you can show how you have taken action to do so then say so too. They need to be confident that you will not do it again.

 

[Passenger1]

I can prove that I bought a railcard through my bank history. Should I mention this in my response?

I didn’t realise that I had to produce an actual railcard on every journey. I believed that having the discount active was proof that I had a railcard. This is because I didn’t realise that the discount still worked even if I didn’t have a valid railcard. I thought that after my railcard expired my discount would stop working. I admit that this is a bad oversight on my part.

It will be much easier for me to produce my new railcard as it is on the Trainline app. Whereas, the one I had before wasn’t as I bought it from a different website. I assume I may have been able to download it onto Trainline, however for whatever reason I never did this.

Are these points I should include?

 

[jfollows]

You’re expected to comply with the published railcard terms and conditions, such as

1. 2.8. You must carry your valid Railcard with you on your journey. When asked by rail staff, you must show a valid ticket and valid Railcard within its period of validity when you travel.
   1. 2.8.1. If you have a physical Railcard, it must be signed by you and should be legible so staff can read it, as further detailed in the NRCoT.
   2. 2.8.2. If you have a digital Railcard, you must be able to show it on a mobile device throughout your journey.

I wouldn’t advise using your lack of knowledge in your letter. They’re not especially interested in why you didn’t have a valid ticket, but more in that you now understand your mistake and won’t repeat it.

 

[Passenger1]

I have updated my response. Is there anything that I should add/remove?

Dear Sir/Madam

On X date I was questioned by one of your Revenue Protection Officers as to why I could not produce a valid railcard to accompany my ticket from X to X. I explained to the officer that I did not know how to find my railcard as it was the first time I had been asked to produce it. I cooperated with the officer, and I provided him with all of the information that he requested. I was then issued a GTREM by the officer.

At the time I believed that my railcard was still valid as the discount that I had applied when I bought my railcard still worked. I now know this was not the case. I apologise for this as I should have been aware that my railcard had expired, and I have since purchased a new railcard which I will produce on future journeys. I purchased this on X date, and the serial number is 1234. I bought this railcard via the trainline app so I know where it is located, and I will easily be able to produce when asked to by a ticket inspector.

I am hoping that this matter can be resolved as quickly as possible, and without the necessity for legal action. I accept responsibility for my actions, and I am happy to pay any outstanding fee for my travel, and any penalty fee that you deem necessary. I will of course also pay for the administrative costs in dealing with this matter.

Once more I apologise for my actions and any inconvenience they may have caused. I hope we can reach an agreement that is desirable for both parties, and I will ensure that I abide by all ticketing rules in the future.

Yours Sincerely,

 

[Passenger1]

Is this a good response to send to Thameslink after receiving a Notice of intention to prosecute letter for getting caught without a railcard?

Dear Sir/Madam

On X date I was questioned by one of your Revenue Protection Officers as to why I could not produce a valid railcard to accompany my ticket from X to X. I explained to the officer that I did not know how to find my railcard as it was the first time I had been asked to produce it. I cooperated with the officer, and I provided him with all of the information that he requested. I was then issued a GTREM by the officer.

At the time I believed that my railcard was still valid as the discount that I had applied when I bought my railcard still worked. I now know this was not the case. I apologise for this as I should have been aware that my railcard had expired, and I have since purchased a new railcard which I will produce on future journeys. I purchased this on X date, and the serial number is 1234. I bought this railcard via the trainline app so I know where it is located, and I will easily be able to produce it when asked to by a ticket inspector.

I am hoping that this matter can be resolved as quickly as possible, and without the necessity for legal action. I accept responsibility for my actions, and I am happy to pay any outstanding fee for my travel, and any penalty fee that you deem necessary. I will of course also pay for the administrative costs in dealing with this matter.

Once more I apologise for my actions and any inconvenience they may have caused. I hope we can reach an agreement that is desirable for both parties, and I will ensure that I abide by all ticketing rules in the future.

Yours Sincerely,

 

[soil]

> At the time I believed that my railcard was still valid as the discount that I had applied when I bought my railcard still worked. I now know this was not the case.

This isn't a great statement, no.

You've missed lots of context. What railcard DID you have, and what railcard DO you have now? When did it expire, and when were you caught? How many journeys did you make in between?

 

[Passenger1]

I have two draft responses here. The first one goes into more detail about why I didn't have a valid railcard and I apologise. However, in the second response I also apologise for the incident, but I don't mention why I didn't have a railcard. Which response is better? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Response 1:

Dear Sir/Madam

On X date I was questioned by one of your Revenue Protection Officers as to why I could not produce a valid railcard to accompany my ticket from X to X. I explained to the officer that I did not know how to find my railcard as it was the first time I had been asked to produce it. I cooperated with the officer, and I provided him with all of the information that he requested. I was then issued a GTREM by the officer.

At the time I believed that my railcard was still valid as the discount that I had applied when I bought my railcard still worked. I now know this was not the case. It didn’t cross my mind that my railcard may have expired because I was preoccupied with my university studies and with work. I know that this is not an excuse, and I apologise for this as I should have been aware that my railcard had expired. I understand the damage that fare evasion does to the rail network and that it is unacceptable.

I have since purchased a new 16-25 railcard which I will produce on future journeys. I purchased this on X date, and the serial number is 1234. I bought this railcard via the trainline app so I know where it is located, and I will easily be able to produce it when asked to by a ticket inspector.

I am hoping that this matter can be resolved as quickly as possible, and without the necessity for legal action. I accept responsibility for my actions, and I am happy to pay any outstanding fee for my travel, and any penalty fee that you deem necessary. I will of course also pay for the administrative costs in dealing with this matter.

Once more I apologise for my actions and any inconvenience they may have caused. I hope we can reach an agreement that is desirable for both parties, and I will ensure that I abide by all ticketing rules in the future.

Yours Sincerely,

Response 2:

Dear Sir/Madam

On X date I was asked by one of your Revenue Protection Officers to produce a valid railcard to accompany my ticket from X to X. I was unable to provide this. I cooperated with the officer, and I provided him with all of the information that he requested. I was then issued a GTREM by the officer.

I understand the damage that fare evasion does to the rail network and that it is unacceptable, and I apologise for my actions. I have since purchased a new 16-25 railcard which I will produce on future journeys. I purchased this on X date, and the serial number is 1234. I bought this railcard via the trainline app, and I will produce it when asked to by a ticket inspector.

I am hoping that this matter can be resolved as quickly as possible, and without the necessity for legal action. I accept responsibility for my actions, and I am happy to pay any outstanding fee for my travel, and any penalty fee that you deem necessary. I will of course also pay for the administrative costs in dealing with this matter.

Once more I apologise for my actions and any inconvenience they may have caused. I hope we can reach an agreement that is desirable for both parties, and I will ensure that I abide by all ticketing rules in the future.

Yours Sincerely,

 

[30907]

Your second reply is better, but you should mention IMO that your previous railcard had expired, otherwise it looks is though you were trying it on.

Delete the reference to "any penalty fee" - they have no legal basis for claiming one.

BTW when a Railcard discount shows up on an app, that simply means that you have claimed to possess one.