Customer service and booking experience on third party retailers

[J663738]

I have just booked several tickets to Newcastle, but I always prefer to book my tickets directly with the TOC I am travelling with, i.e. TfW and Northern for this journey. Even today I booked too early a return on the second leg and phoned up customer service and they told me to book another complete return journey, ring back and they will cancel the first one free of charge, which they have now done, do third party sites offer this sort of service?
Also when things go wrong it has been difficult to sort out as there is a third party now involved, at least this was my experience a few years ago, when I needed a refund.
Can anyone convince me that things have now improved? and should I be using this sites booking portal?

 

[Haywain]

do third party sites offer this sort of service?

I think most retailers will do this within an hour or so of the original booking being made.

Also when things go wrong it has been difficult to sort out as there is a third party now involved, at least this was my experience a few years ago, when I needed a refund.

A refund comes from the retailer, and shouldn't be difficult. In this respect some are better than others.

Can anyone convince me that things have now improved?

Without knowing your previous experience, we don't know what it would take to convince you otherwise. And whether "things have improved" may depend which retailers you have used.

should I be using this sites booking portal?

Yes. Trainsplit give very good customer service and using the site contributes to the forum.

 

[AlterEgo]

Also when things go wrong it has been difficult to sort out as there is a third party now involved, at least this was my experience a few years ago, when I needed a refund.

In what way? Which third party was involved?

 

[J663738]

The previous example was with a Trainline booking and actual journey was with GWR who were late and I had difficulty getting a refund and gave up, since then if I'm travelling with GWR I book with GWR. I have used their delay repay system a few times without issue.
I have had same experiences with airlines to be honest, now I always find it much easier to book directly with the airline I'm flying with, as it stops the blame ping-pong game and the 'we don't recognise that reference number as we didn't issue you with the ticket'.

 

[alistairlees]

I have just booked several tickets to Newcastle, but I always prefer to book my tickets directly with the TOC I am travelling with, i.e. TfW and Northern for this journey. Even today I booked too early a return on the second leg and phoned up customer service and they told me to book another complete return journey, ring back and they will cancel the first one free of charge, which they have now done, do third party sites offer this sort of service?

Third Party Retailers have to be very customer-focused, as they are commercial businesses that must operate within a narrow financial envelope. TOCs are not really commercial businesses (they are directly taxpayer-funded, after all), so they might not have the same focus on customer service, or (conversely) they might just be able to give more money away as compensation because they don't need to operate within the same financial constraints as third party retailers (the bill will just get picked up by the taxpayer). That said I have received good service from train operators most of the times I've needed to do something (not all that often).

Third party retailers will vary in what they offer, but the one I am responsible for (Railsmartr.co.uk) offers both fee-free refunds of walk up tickets and fee-free exchange of Advance tickets. No fees at all, in fact. No TOC offers both of those so far as I am aware.

I'm sure other third party retailers will do similar things.

 

[Haywain]

actual journey was with GWR who were late and I had difficulty getting a refund

Was this because you were delayed or because you didn't travel? If it was the former you should have been claiming from GWR regardless of where you bought the ticket, but if it was the latter the claim was with Trainline.

 

[AlterEgo]

The previous example was with a Trainline booking and actual journey was with GWR who were late and I had difficulty getting a refund and gave up

Should be very easy to refund your ticket if you didn't travel at all, was that the case? The train company who delayed you handles delay repay claims, not the retailer.

I have had same experiences with airlines to be honest, now I always find it much easier to book directly with the airline I'm flying with, as it stops the blame ping-pong game and the 'we don't recognise that reference number as we didn't issue you with the ticket'.

That's very different as there are formal rules over who handles or "owns" a booking when it comes to airlines.

 

[TUC]

I do find how some people talk about 'third party retailers' slightly odd, as if there is something distasteful about them. They're no different to using a travel agent to book a flight or holiday. Rail travel is just another transport product.

 

[cholsey-choose]

I do find how some people talk about 'third party retailers' slightly odd, as if there is something distasteful about them. They're no different to using a travel agent to book a flight or holiday. Rail travel is just another transport product.

It's partly that you can get genuinely cheaper fares with a third party when flying (less common now but you can still save a few quid) but I think this is pretty much unheard of for rail travel. I guess there's split ticketing, but again you could do that first-party if you don't mind the hassle.

 

[TUC]

It's partly that you can get genuinely cheaper fares with a third party when flying (less common now but you can still save a few quid) but I think this is pretty much unheard of for rail travel. I guess there's split ticketing, but again you could do that first-party if you don't mind the hassle.

Different retailers’ sites have different levels of functionality and customer-friendliness, but at the end of the day I can’t see any reason why there should be an objection to passengers having a choice. It’s a key way of driving standards up overall.

 

[cholsey-choose]

Oh agreed no objection but you were asking why people see them as distasteful. Especially in the case of those with booking fees, I think some people as seeing them as distasteful because they think the customers are suckers.

 

[Hadders]

Trainline is the largest retailer of tickets by some margin, and they are a 3rd party retailer.

Almost all train companies contract out their own ticket selling websites to a third party, so you might think you’re booking direct with a TOC but essentially your transaction will be processed by a company like Trainline, Worldline, Assertis, On Track etc.

 

[J663738]

Train was just late.
Maybe like others I just distrust third party retailers who just sit in the middle and add to the complexity and overall cost of the transaction (in the long run). But sadly this is how the UK and other countries are built these days, like the majority who appear on Dragons Den TV show, few will want make something new, they just seem to piggy back on someone else's business and try and take a cut.

 

[skyhigh]

Train was just late.

Yes, but did you actually travel or not? If you did, a refund was the wrong course of action and the retailer was correct to refuse a refund.

 

[styles]

It's partly that you can get genuinely cheaper fares with a third party when flying (less common now but you can still save a few quid) but I think this is pretty much unheard of for rail travel.

Half of the benefit of third-party retailers is:

I guess there's split ticketing, but again you could do that first-party if you don't mind the hassle.

The only TOC website offering split tickets for the whole network is ScotRail (which uses Trainline's booking engine, but doesn't actually have an amazing split ticketing algorithm).

The majority of journeys I make by train, split tickets save a significant amount of money, more than any booking fees/commissions the third party retailers may apply.

It is true of course that you could put together your own basket of split tickets on a TOC's website and book direct, but this is more than the average rail passenger is confident with, and sometimes it's a fair bit of fiddling to save a couple of quid booking fee.

I would also add, Trainline probably gets the most hate of all the third-party retailers, but they have pioneered a lot of features which didn't exist on TOC websites at the time, some of which have been copied by TOCs now. Even if seasoned rail travellers and rail forum users don't use them because of the fees/etc, they do appear to contribute positively to the wider traveller experience. Arguably GBR/similar could do this, but would they?

 

[Haywain]

Trainline probably gets the most hate of all the third-party retailers, but

They are, by a distance, the biggest single retailer of rail tickets.

 

[styles]

They are, by a distance, the biggest single retailer of rail tickets.

Well, quite.

I suspect a large part of it has been their marketing budget (see below), but they also did bring in a bunch of convenience features before competitors, and have contributed significantly in my view to making split ticketing mainstream.

Their AI chatbot was/is utter garbage, and dangerously misleading, mind.

 

[redreni]

Policies of retailers differ, so I choose where to buy taking into a account a number of factors including any special discounts, whether they sell the ticket I want (some don't sell London boundary zone fares, for example), whether it is the sort of journey where I don't know the fares and would benefit from split ticketing functionality (in which case I generally use TrainSplit and buy from them if they find me a split that saves me money), etc, whether I want to be able to make fee-free changes, and so on. Sometimes applying these criteria leads me to buy from a TOC (though not normally the one that runs the service I intend to use), sometimes from a third party retailer.

I see no reason to believe you get better service in the event things go wrong if you book direct with the TOC.

If it were a journey involving two or more TOCs I certainly wouldn't recommend doing separate bookings with each TOC. Doing so doesn't reduce your rights as long as you leave yourself enough connection time, but if the point is supposed to make things easier if anything goes wrong, having separate bookings with different companies won't do that. Having one booking on a through itinerary with a retailer with an above average reputation for customer service will do that.

 

[J663738]

Yes, but did you actually travel or not? If you did, a refund was the wrong course of action and the retailer was correct to refuse a refund.

Yes, I did travel, but the train into Cardiff was about 40 minutes late. I did try and claim off Trainline whom I bought the ticket off, but they wanted so much information on the journey, which they sold me in the first place and should have records of, I gave up to be honest.
I bought a KLM air ticket a few week back, which included another partner airline, I missed my connection due to the other airline being delayed (Air Baltic) and guess what KLM din't what to know, told me my contact Air Baltic directly and claim off them.
Why is travel so special? just imagine going in to Tesco's and buying a fish that was rotten, going back and Tesco's saying contact the trawler as its not their problem.

 

[MrJeeves]

Maybe like others I just distrust third party retailers who just sit in the middle and add to the complexity and overall cost of the transaction (in the long run). But sadly this is how the UK and other countries are built these days, like the majority who appear on Dragons Den TV show, few will want make something new, they just seem to piggy back on someone else's business and try and take a cut.

You might be surprised to know that many standards within the rail retail industry have been formulated by Third Party Retailers.

Season tickets on your phone? That was Trainline's doing.

E-Ticket for your normal journeys? That was paid for through barcode fees charged to retailers.

Even the first forays into digital ticketing were implemented by third parties wanting to improve the rail industry.

Maybe if it wasn't for these third parties, you'd still be waiting for your tickets to arrive by post.

 

[Hadders]

Yes, I did travel, but the train into Cardiff was about 40 minutes late. I did try and claim off Trainline whom I bought the ticket off, but they wanted so much information on the journey, which they sold me in the first place and should have records of, I gave up to be honest.
I bought a KLM air ticket a few week back, which included another partner airline, I missed my connection due to the other airline being delayed (Air Baltic) and guess what KLM din't what to know, told me my contact Air Baltic directly and claim off them.
Why is travel so special? just imagine going in to Tesco's and buying a fish that was rotten, going back and Tesco's saying contact the trawler as its not their problem.

If you travel and are delayed then you don't claim a refund. You claim delay repay compensation from the train company that caused the initial delay to your journey. Which retailer you buy the ticket from is immaterial when claiming delay repay.

 

[J663738]

"You claim delay repay compensation from the train company that caused the initial delay to your journey"

Why should I have to claim from someone other than the retailer I bought my ticket off ?
Do these contracts fall outside consumer rights!

I know they are the rules, but quiet frankly if you stand back and take a look, these rules sound ridiculous, where else in consumer law do you go chasing a third party???

 

[Hadders]

The National Rail Conditions of Travel says that:

When you buy a Ticket to travel on scheduled train services on the National Rail Network you enter into a binding contract with each of the Train Companies whose trains your Ticket allows you to use.

I'm all for making claiming delay repay easier to claim, and feel free to make suggestions on how this could be achieved but this should be a separate thread in the appropriate section.

 

[Nicholas43]

Aren't rail ticket sellers therefore agents, not retailers?

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes, I did travel, but the train into Cardiff was about 40 minutes late. I did try and claim off Trainline

There’s your problem. It’s not the retailer who owes you delay repay. It’s the train company who caused you the problem who has to pay you.

Regardless of who you buy the ticket from, you need to use the train company’s delay repay scheme to make a claim, which takes the same amount of work and effort on your part regardless of where you buy your ticket.

I bought a KLM air ticket a few week back, which included another partner airline, I missed my connection due to the other airline being delayed (Air Baltic) and guess what KLM din't what to know, told me my contact Air Baltic directly and claim off them.

That would be correct. Because Air Baltic are responsible for any EC261 claim.

"You claim delay repay compensation from the train company that caused the initial delay to your journey"

Why should I have to claim from someone other than the retailer I bought my ticket off ?

Because that’s the law.

Do these contracts fall outside consumer rights!

No.

I know they are the rules, but quiet frankly if you stand back and take a look, these rules sound ridiculous, where else in consumer law do you go chasing a third party???

Because you’re not purchasing goods. You’re purchasing a service. Under the law the service provider is the one responsible for making sure their service is up to scratch. That’s the same for just about all services.

The travel provider (airline, train company etc) is not a third party by the way. The third party, as you have already identified, is the *ticket selling company* hence their name in the title of the thread, “third party retailers”.

Consumer Rights Act travel amendments - Which?

You can claim compensation for certain types of poor service on most transport services, including mainline passenger rail services and ferry journeys.

www.which.co.uk

 

[J663738]

There’s your problem. It’s not the retailer who owes you delay repay. It’s the train company who caused you the problem who has to pay you.

Thanks for that, so this answers my initial question about third party sellers and have things changed and it appears it hasn't.
That's why I book directly with the train company I'm travelling with, so if there is a delay, I claim off them directly, which simplifies matters, for me at least.
I buy a my electricity (a service) from a company that doesn't generate the power, if I have a power cut I claim off them not the generator or distributor, so the law is not as clear cut as you suggest between goods and services. Same with insurance, I don't have to go back to the under-writer to make my claim.

 

[alistairlees]

Thanks for that, so this answers my initial question about third party sellers and have things changed and it appears it hasn't.
That's why I book directly with the train company I'm travelling with, so if there is a delay, I claim off them directly, which simplifies matters, for me at least.
I buy a my electricity (a service) from a company that doesn't generate the power, if I have a power cut I claim off them not the generator or distributor, so the law is not as clear cut as you suggest between goods and services.

If you travel from Penarth to London, you'll need to go on TfW then GWR. If you book your tickets with GWR, then are delayed by TfW being late and missing your connection at Cardiff, then you'll need to claim Delay Repay from a different company from the one you booked with. It's not a problem unique to customers of third party retailers.

That said, I completely agree that third party retailers should be able to process Delay Repay, just like they can process refunds. It would be a far better customer proposition. I have been pushing for this for years - but TOCs have been dead against, with some even saying that it makes things simpler for customers if customers have to apply to the TOC that caused the delay. It really does not! And, of course, it was wide open to fraud for years, when it need not have been.

 

[cholsey-choose]

At the very least there should be a single portal where you can submit delay repay claims and they determine which TOC to send it to. I have several logins for TOC delay repay sites where I've never (and never will) bought a ticket directly from that TOC. Silly.

 

[Lewisham2221]

If you travel from Penarth to London, you'll need to go on TfW then GWR. If you book your tickets with GWR, then are delayed by TfW being late and missing your connection at Cardiff, then you'll need to claim Delay Repay from a different company from the one you booked with. It's not a problem unique to customers of third party retailers.

That said, I completely agree that third party retailers should be able to process Delay Repay, just like they can process refunds. It would be a far better customer proposition. I have been pushing for this for years - but TOCs have been dead against, with some even saying that it makes things simpler for customers if customers have to apply to the TOC that caused the delay. It really does not! And, of course, it was wide open to fraud for years, when it need not have been.

What would be even easier is if there was a centralised Delay Repay hub - operated by RDG or someone - where you could go to make all claims and all the industry who/what/when/where/why of the delay responsibility was done in the background - perhaps something that may be made easier under GBR? Or perhaps not.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Aug 2025 ==

At the very least there should be a single portal where you can submit delay repay claims and they determine which TOC to send it to. I have several logins for TOC delay repay sites where I've never (and never will) bought a ticket directly from that TOC. Silly.

Beat me to it! Totally agree. This nonsense of the passenger needing to understand who caused their delay and thus who to claim from is... nonsense!

 

[redreni]

Thanks for that, so this answers my initial question about third party sellers and have things changed and it appears it hasn't.
That's why I book directly with the train company I'm travelling with, so if there is a delay, I claim off them directly, which simplifies matters, for me at least.
I buy a my electricity (a service) from a company that doesn't generate the power, if I have a power cut I claim off them not the generator or distributor, so the law is not as clear cut as you suggest between goods and services. Same with insurance, I don't have to go back to the under-writer to make my claim.

As I mentioned, in the event you are delayed on the journey you cited as an example, having separate bookings for each leg complicates, if anything, things like delay repay, because either

(1) you've got to make a claim, which is no easier or harder no matter who you booked with, or
(2) the TOC who's train was delayed will attempt to give you auto delay repay, but they will give you the wrong amount because they don't know you were making a through journey on two different TOCs' services. That'll take time and effort to correct. Who in their right mind would want, for example, to be delayed on a Newcastle to Penarth journey but only receive compensation based on the value of the ticket from Manchester to Penarth?

If the system worked the way you want, it would be a worse system.

The point of the consumer entering into a contract with the retailer and with all the TOCs, is that it doesn't matter which accredited retailer you buy from. Many tickets give you flexibility about the routes and TOCs you can use, and even when using a ticket that is tied to a specific TOC there are still circumstances in which you may be entitled to assistance from other TOCs (e.g. if disruption means you would otherwise be stranded at, say, a station run by Avanti or TPE).