Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[MotCO]

So ADL are copying Wrightbus.

 

[joieman]

I wonder, might repowering allow for very long overall lives, perhaps even 30 years?

Barring structural defects, it could be a possibility.

I'd be interested to see end-of-life buses being refurbished as opposed to mid-life buses. In general, I think people need to learn how to make things last longer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

So ADL are copying Wrightbus.

As they should. Given how prolific ADL buses are, someone needed to offer a repowering solution for them.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Barring structural defects, it could be a possibility.

I'd be interested to see end-of-life buses being refurbished as opposed to mid-life buses. In general, I think people need to learn how to make things last longer.

It would certainly help with the costs of when a company does need new vehicles too. As you wouldn’t need to buy as many new vehicles at once, then you could spread that out by making existing stock last longer where realistically possible through conversions. As such yes your average age on the fleet would be much older but in turn it would still be effective as conversions are not far off feeling like brand new themselves.

As they should. Given how prolific ADL buses are, someone needed to offer a repowering solution for them.

My only concern is some of the KleanDrive conversions so far have been rubbish. Lothian’s 232 is an example. It’s absolutely hopeless and can’t be used in service. Caught fire twice too albeit small ones. Rumour is it’s being changed again with a NewPower this time. Hopefully in time KleanDrive improve but I have concerns initially.

 

[Resuwen]

I’m hearing there will be some further big announcements this week which should be positive for retaining ADL production in Scotland

 

[MotCO]

Barring structural defects, it could be a possibility.

I'd be interested to see end-of-life buses being refurbished as opposed to mid-life buses. In general, I think people need to learn how to make things last longer.

Are buses' lives decided on mechanical or bodywork? If it is the bodywork and/or chassis which lets it down, then repowering with batteries won't be cost effective.

 

[Edvid]

My only concern is some of the KleanDrive conversions so far have been rubbish. Lothian’s 232 is an example. It’s absolutely hopeless and can’t be used in service. Caught fire twice too albeit small ones. Rumour is it’s being changed again with a NewPower this time. Hopefully in time KleanDrive improve but I have concerns initially.

First have recently invested £1m in KleanDrive and Ensignbus are installing a KD driveline within one of their StreetDecks; if the pilot conversion is successful around 30 more StreetDecks will be repowered in the same fashion (link). That suggests KD have made technical revisions to their offering since that disastrous conversion.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Barring structural defects, it could be a possibility.

I'd be interested to see end-of-life buses being refurbished as opposed to mid-life buses. In general, I think people need to learn how to make things last longer.

Fully agreed. I would hope that it would be a motivation for manufacturers to put a bit more focus on building buses so that the body and chassis can last longer, as repowering is now an option meaning that just the engine/batteries/motor becoming worn out wouldn't nescesarilly mean the end of the bus. Sure, it might mean selling fewer new buses, but scrapping old vehichles and building new ones is generally more resource and emissions intensive than keeping them going. Ideally there should be an emphasis on using existing buses for longer where practical. It would be a shame to see buses fall apart structually with a healthy engine/batteries.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Are buses' lives decided on mechanical or bodywork? If it is the bodywork and/or chassis which lets it down, then repowering with batteries won't be cost effective.

In most cases it is mechanical failure that leads to a final withdrawal but sometimes it is bodywork or chassis failure that leads to it, either due to poor construction (mostly chassis wise) or very robust mechanicals. Whilst it may not help re-powers there is also the hope that without a huge mechanical lump vibrating seperately at the back of the bus the bodywork should survive better for longer with electrics though the poor state of so many UK roads may mitigate against that somewhat.

 

[VioletEclipse]

In most cases it is mechanical failure that leads to a final withdrawal but sometimes it is bodywork or chassis failure that leads to it, either due to poor construction (mostly chassis wise) or very robust mechanicals. Whilst it may not help re-powers there is also the hope that without a huge mechanical lump vibrating seperately at the back of the bus the bodywork should survive better for longer with electrics though the poor state of so many UK roads may mitigate against that somewhat.

Was somewhat recently on an E400MMC which was seemingly rattling itself to bits, and no surprise given the awful state of many of the roads on the route it was assigned to. Could be a genuine contribution to shortening the lives of electric buses which are often heavier than diesels due to the batteries, so could be affected by bad potholes worse, despite not having diesel engines which vibrate and can leak liquids all over the place, among other things.

 

[Goldfish62]

A recent article in Route One magazine highlights the likelihood of electric buses lasting up to twice as long as their diesel equivalents.

Does extended electric bus life call for more durable components? - routeone

The life of an electric bus is likely to be longer than a diesel. Pailton Engineering considers how that washes through to components.

www.route-one.net

Does extended electric bus life call for more durable components?​

The life of an electric bus will likely be greater than a diesel - so what of component longevity?​

Remember the Duracell Bunny? It first appeared in a 1970s advertisement featuring an array of toy rabbits playing the drums. The one powered by Duracell lasted the longest.
Today, battery-powered buses promise to outlast their diesel-powered counterparts, and what that means for parts manufacturers is considered by Roger Brereton of coach and bus steering system specialist Pailton Engineering.
Electric buses appear to be the future of road-based public transport. According to the European Federation for Transport and Environment, every other new bus in the EU was electric in 2024, with zero-emission sales expected to reach 100% in Europe by 2027.
Around the world, Bloomberg New Energy Finance estimates that electric buses will make up 83% of global sales by 2040. Battery-powered electric buses are expected to last up to twice as long as the typical 10- to 15-year lifespan of a diesel bus.
For example, Alexander Dennis claims that its next-generation Enviro400EV double-decker can cover two consecutive seven-year contract terms on typical Transport for London routes without a battery change, or typical provincial routes for up to 20 years with just one mid-life change of batteries.
That is mainly because the lack of an internal combustion engine (ICE) eliminates a host of associated mechanical components, such as fuel injection systems, exhaust treatment equipment, and a multi-geared transmission.
In addition to reducing potential for wear and tear, a simpler powertrain with fewer moving parts, fluids and filters also reduces maintenance requirements, so electric bus fleets will tend to need less downtime during their lives.
The combined longer lifespan and increased uptime puts pressure on the vehicle’s components, which should ideally last the lifetime of the vehicle to avoid maintenance bottlenecks. It is clear that durability is essential, but parts in electric buses might experience wear differently to those fitted to their diesel-powered counterparts.
For instance, the lack of an engine reduces the vibration experienced by components in electric buses. In addition, acceleration and deceleration are smoother thanks to the electric motor and regenerative braking. That reduces the strain on running gear like steering linkages and suspension.
On the other hand, the batteries in an electric bus add significant weight to the vehicle, so it is much heavier. Consequently, components must be capable of withstanding additional loads during manoeuvres and provide the same level of reliable vehicle control without adding too much weight themselves.
In addition, electric buses might have less regular maintenance schedules than ICE-powered predecessors. For instance, with fewer opportunities for regreasing, parts suppliers may have to develop maintenance-free components like sealed universal joints or sliding steering shafts, which do not require regular lubrication.

 

[Wyrleybart]

They’re owned by Birmingham City Council, so I’d imagine NX will hand them back and BCC will try to sell them off.

Zenobe provide battery leasing and charging infrastructure to National Express (Coventry & West Mids), though they don’t have a hand in the bus design itself.

Owner Jo Bamford is big into hydrogen, including the production through his ownership of Ryze Hydrogen.

Supply should be fine, the NXWM fleet is refuelled at Tyseley Energy Park which produces hydrogen onsite… the equipment is frequently out of action.

Walsall was meant to get hydrogen refuelling equipment but planning permission got refused due to neighbouring houses. No other depots want them.

HSE doesn’t like large hydrogen tanks onsite, Metrobus Crawley has a 2000kg (equipment’s max capacity is 5000kg) limit on their hydrogen storage.

The NXWM units have been useful in testing out hydrogen, but it’s clear that WMCA & NXWM have learnt and have no interest in hydrogen buses going forward.

I notice on Facebook that a Wright Streetdeck Electroliner has appeared in the West Midlands in base NXWM grey. There are quotes of it becoming E1107 but no ideas where it will be allocated, but "months away" from service. I am assuming the garage(s) will need charging kit installed first and surmising the charging will be different to the Zenobe equipment needed to charge the ADL fleet. Perhaps the Streetdecks will be allocated to the former North Division garages or Walsall, Wloverhampton and the Black Country.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

I notice on Facebook that a Wright Streetdeck Electroliner has appeared in the West Midlands in base NXWM grey. There are quotes of it becoming E1107 but no ideas where it will be allocated, but "months away" from service. I am assuming the garage(s) will need charging kit installed first and surmising the charging will be different to the Zenobe equipment needed to charge the ADL fleet. Perhaps the Streetdecks will be allocated to the former North Division garages or Walsall, Wloverhampton and the Black Country.

E1101-E1161 are currently in the process of build/delivery. All are Wrightbus Electroliners.

 

[Wyrleybart]

E1101-E1161 are currently in the process of build/delivery. All are Wrightbus Electroliners.

Thanks very much. So that is 160 vehicles to sweep away a large number of diesel buses.

Thanks

 

[Energy]

I notice on Facebook that a Wright Streetdeck Electroliner has appeared in the West Midlands in base NXWM grey. There are quotes of it becoming E1107 but no ideas where it will be allocated, but "months away" from service. I am assuming the garage(s) will need charging kit installed first and surmising the charging will be different to the Zenobe equipment needed to charge the ADL fleet.

BYD initially favoured AC charging, with AC charging being the only option until 2021. As such, Zenobe fitted 88kW AC chargers to the NX depots for the BYD/ADL buses; Coventry had 140 chargers for its 140 electric buses.

Almost every new electric bus now is DC charging only, including the Electroliners and the integral E400EVs. NXWM will need DC chargers installed for any new electrics. It's unclear what is happening with Coventry and its single-deckers. I believe the Yutong and eCitaro they trialed are DC only, and I'm not aware of any AC charging buses aside from BYD. Coventry also had 7 extra BYD E400EVs sent down from NXWM, so they seem to be trying to keep Coventry's deckers AC charging.

Perhaps the Streetdecks will be allocated to the former North Division garages or Walsall, Wloverhampton and the Black Country.

Wolverhampton has a planning application in for charges, so at least some are going there. They're twin chargers this time so definitely DC.

 

[Resuwen]

Thanks very much. So that is 160 vehicles to sweep away a large number of diesel buses.

Thanks

1101-61 would be 61 vehicles, not 160

 

[Brum900]

Thanks very much. So that is 160 vehicles to sweep away a large number of diesel buses.

Thanks

There are 130 due in total

 

[Wyrleybart]

Thanks for the info and corrections.
Does a human need to plug a cable between the vehicle and the charger, or is there some kind of induction arrangement ? I have seen the airport shuttle single deckers at Birmingham airport with the inverted pantograph arrangements for quick charging, but I guess the service buses charge overnight in most cases.

 

[Resuwen]

Consultation period on ADL Scotland closure has been extended.

I understand this is because there’s a strong possiblity of some substantial orders which would keep Larbert going.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Thanks for the info and corrections.
Does a human need to plug a cable between the vehicle and the charger, or is there some kind of induction arrangement ? I have seen the airport shuttle single deckers at Birmingham airport with the inverted pantograph arrangements for quick charging, but I guess the service buses charge overnight in most cases.

For most operators vehicles charging in a depot will be physically plugged in, it is a cheaper system to implement and less complicated to run and if the vehicle isn't being moved soon all that complexity is unnecessary.

 

[MotCO]

For most operators vehicles charging in a depot will be physically plugged in, it is a cheaper system to implement and less complicated to run and if the vehicle isn't being moved soon all that complexity is unnecessary.

There are some buses which recharge at terminii by overhead gantry and pantographs. Route 358 Orpington to Crystal Palace is one such route, operated by Irizar ie Trams, and I think route 132 at Bexleyheath has a couple of ADL400EVs which have overhead charging.

 

[Mikey C]

Consultation period on ADL Scotland closure has been extended.

I understand this is because there’s a strong possiblity of some substantial orders which would keep Larbert going.

If ADL had proposed to do the cutbacks the other way round, i.e. closing Scarborough and moving all production to Scotland, I doubt Scarborough would have had the publicity and heavyweight political support ADL's Scottish facilities are getting...

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

If ADL had proposed to do the cutbacks the other way round, i.e. closing Scarborough and moving all production to Scotland, I doubt Scarborough would have had the publicity and heavyweight political support ADL's Scottish facilities are getting...

I’m not so sure about this. Am I not right and saying that ADL are planned to be the only ‘manufacturer’ left in England?

Switch are meant to be closing and all the other plants from other companies are final fit outs or conversions, rather than from scratch, if you know what I mean?

If that is indeed all correct I think it would’ve been a similar backlash.

 

[Mikey C]

I’m not so sure about this. Am I not right and saying that ADL are planned to be the only ‘manufacturer’ left in England?

Switch are meant to be closing and all the other plants from other companies are final fit outs or conversions, rather than from scratch, if you know what I mean?

If that is indeed all correct I think it would’ve been a similar backlash.

There was no reaction when Switch closed, and when ADL closed Guildford it wasn't a major story either.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

There was no reaction when Switch closed, and when ADL closed Guildford it wasn't a major story either.

Closing Scarborough would mean there’s none at all in England left though. I think that’s a bigger deal. It’s also a large part of the backlash in Scotland and another part of it is simply its roots.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

There was no reaction when Switch closed, and when ADL closed Guildford it wasn't a major story either.

There will be an element of context, manufacturing was never a major aspect of the local identity for Guildford nor is unemployment a major concern for the majority of the local community and so press (even if there are areas of deprivation within the town and there was some local reaction) whilst Switch had moved from its old home and been running down for years so the shock was less. ADL is a major employer in Scarborough, particularly of skilled & year round employment, which would add to now being the last complete bus builder in England (Mellor still body small buses but that is a different category to ADL or Wright in scale) to create a higher profile reaction. It may be the added factor of the devolved government creating slightly more attention as this is a bigger thing for them scale-wise than Scarborough would be for Westminster creating a bit more profile.

 

[Mikey C]

There will be an element of context, manufacturing was never a major aspect of the local identity for Guildford nor is unemployment a major concern for the majority of the local community and so press (even if there are areas of deprivation within the town and there was some local reaction) whilst Switch had moved from its old home and been running down for years so the shock was less. ADL is a major employer in Scarborough, particularly of skilled & year round employment, which would add to now being the last complete bus builder in England (Mellor still body small buses but that is a different category to ADL or Wright in scale) to create a higher profile reaction. It may be the added factor of the devolved government creating slightly more attention as this is a bigger thing for them scale-wise than Scarborough would be for Westminster creating a bit more profile.

I genuinely don't think it would be a major national political story, if the last manufacturer of anything in England closed down, if production was continuing elsewhere in the UK, especially as there's no English parliament and being the dominant country within the UK, there isn't that sense of English nationalism towards manufacturing.

 

[Trainman40083]

I genuinely don't think it would be a major national political story, if the last manufacturer of anything in England closed down, if production was continuing elsewhere in the UK, especially as there's no English parliament and being the dominant country within the UK, there isn't that sense of English nationalism towards manufacturing.

Can't help but think, that when we saw the bailout at say Scunthorpe, that other manufacturers might put pressure on the Government for a bail out. But then I thought back to pre Brexit days. Was Government support then even allowed?

 

[Snow1964]

A recent article in Route One magazine highlights the likelihood of electric buses lasting up to twice as long as their diesel equivalents.

Does extended electric bus life call for more durable components? - routeone

The life of an electric bus is likely to be longer than a diesel. Pailton Engineering considers how that washes through to components.

www.route-one.net

Yes, one major difference is no vibrations from engine, and no clunks and jerks from lack of gearbox. I suspect everyone has experienced an older bus that felt at times like it was shaking itself to bits.

I realise some EVs are coupled to a simple 2 speed gearbox, so saying no gearbox is not always strictly true, but the old jerky transmissions are gone and they didn't help keep everything assembled tightly and unstressed.

Although EV batteries need a cooling system (or more strictly temperature management), they don't get same level of thermal stress. Not uncommon on a diesel bus to find heat radiating from very hot engine compartment. Components can eventually get thermal cracking in diesels, tends not to happen in EVs (ignoring where batteries were poorly made and fail).

 

[Swimbar]

The majority of ADL's deliveries have been produced at Scarborough for some years with a lessor amount in Scotland.
Makes total sense to close the Scottish operation and keep Scarborough.

 

[GusB]

I genuinely don't think it would be a major national political story, if the last manufacturer of anything in England closed down, if production was continuing elsewhere in the UK, especially as there's no English parliament and being the dominant country within the UK, there isn't that sense of English nationalism towards manufacturing.

It may not make the national (ie UK) news, but the last manufacturer of anything would certainly make the local news for that area. I'll leave it up to you to do your own research about the media reaction to Eastern Coach Works, Northern Counties, Park Royal, Roe etc...

It's a major political story in Scotland because AD is a major employer in the area.