EMR Manchester Picc - Sheffield during Stockport Blockade

[Bertie the bus]

I saw the 07:27 EMR non-stop RRB depart Piccadilly yesterday and it had nobody on it. I then caught the 07:47 Northern service to Sheffield and it was well loaded. Both services were scheduled to arrive in Sheffield at 09:05.

Who is going to pay the rail fare and then catch the bus, that takes longer, when there are viable alternative rail services? From my observation the answer is nobody.

It just looks like a complete and utter waste of money running this RRB.

 

[Rail Ranger]

On Monday to Friday Northern is running non-stop Piccadilly to Sheffield trains in the EMR paths (the Norwich service is starting from Sheffield). Not clear why this is not the case on Saturdays and Sundays (crewing issues?).

 

[185143]

On Monday to Friday Northern is running non-stop Piccadilly to Sheffield trains in the EMR paths (the Norwich service is starting from Sheffield). Not clear why this is not the case on Saturdays and Sundays (crewing issues?).

Sundays definitely will be crewing issues, the issues on the West side of Northern aren't exactly a secret to anybody in those parts.

Saturdays are less clear. Could well be unit availability given the shift to leisure travel the industry has seen over the last few years. Northern had hardly be blamed for not being willing/able to bail EMR out at the cost of their own passengers elsewhere.

 

[Bertie the bus]

It definitely isn't unit availability. Northern were running 5-car Hope Valley services yesterday instead of the usual 2 or 3-car. specifically due to the Stockport works.

Whether Northern is using the vacant EMR paths on Saturdays or not is irrelevant anyway. The Northern service is running, it departs 20 minutes after the bus and it is scheduled to arrive at the same time as the bus. Nobody is going to use the bus, ergo it is a pointless waste of money.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Surely if the Northern fast service was running on Saturdays the EMR bus would not run? The EMR bus does not run on Monday to Friday. The EMR buses provide additional capacity at weekends.

 

[185143]

I suspect a large part of the issue is that the bus is being sold at full walk up price whereas the trains still have advance tickets available.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Yes I just checked for next Saturday. £27.80 (!) single on the EMR bus, £8.70 single on the Northern train. Madness.

 

[185143]

Yes I just checked for next Saturday. £27.80 (!) single on the EMR bus, £8.70 single on the Northern train. Madness.

Should be the other way round. Book and confirm a (say) 53 seat coach and sell 45 seats for £8.70 and sell the train at the higher fare! Once the cheap seats on the coach go, everyone pays the same.

For a temporary period when there are highly likely to be capacity issues (I could go on at length at the state of Sunday morning MAN-SHF trains!) then minimising the sale of advances is the best option.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Of course tickets are not always checked on rail replacement buses.....

 

[ayubdaud]

How did it end up that EMR couldn't run a service during this block? They have knowledge via Romiley and they seemed to have additional driver learning paths?

 

[Rail Ranger]

The Hague Bar landslip near New Mills meant that many EMR crews lost the route knowledge of the Marple route. EMR have not been able to run route learning trips due to a shortage of units.

 

[43055]

Sundays definitely will be crewing issues, the issues on the West side of Northern aren't exactly a secret to anybody in those parts.

Saturdays are less clear. Could well be unit availability given the shift to leisure travel the industry has seen over the last few years. Northern had hardly be blamed for not being willing/able to bail EMR out at the cost of their own passengers elsewhere.

Is this why northern graced me with a bus at Heysham last Sunday after stepping off the ferry? Got to Lancaster and a train to Morecambe was being advertised on one of the platform screens so can't of been engineering.

 

[Killingworth]

Lack of EMR services may be as much to do with lack of capacity for everything, including freight, to be routed through Marple. As far as I can see EMR normally run a few trains that way each day so route knowledge shouldn't be an issue.

Earlier this week I priced some weekend trips from Sheffield to Manchester. It certainly does make one think. For speed it's TPE. For price it's Northern. For an interesting scenic, expensive, lengthy ride, take the EMR bus.

Yesterday the Northern trains looked the best option all round. See examples for next weekend. If the trains are overcrowded, too late, the bus has just left!

 

[Rail Ranger]

No, EMR could have diverted via Marple if their route knowledge had allowed it. Northern are running fast trains in their paths between Piccadilly and Sheffield on Monday to Friday. The EMR trains which run via Marple in the early morning and late at night are crewed by the same few crews.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2025 ==

Is this why northern graced me with a bus at Heysham last Sunday after stepping off the ferry? Got to Lancaster and a train to Morecambe was being advertised on one of the platform screens so can't of been engineering.

Probably lack of route knowledge of Morecambe to Heysham.

 

[Zooty]

Is this why northern graced me with a bus at Heysham last Sunday after stepping off the ferry? Got to Lancaster and a train to Morecambe was being advertised on one of the platform screens so can't of been engineering.

Yes. All west side Morecambe services are bustituted on Sundays. The only trains running are those crewed from Skipton.

 

[Killingworth]

Yes. All west side Morecambe services are bustituted on Sundays. The only trains running are those crewed from Skipton.

The Northern Sunday west side crewing issue needs a separate thread - or has it already got one? Since last summer a very substantial proportion of their Sunday timetabled services have been abandoned, haphazardly at first, then on a temporary basis but looking at from December they may now be sealed in?

 

[ayubdaud]

Lack of EMR services may be as much to do with lack of capacity for everything, including freight, to be routed through Marple. As far as I can see EMR normally run a few trains that way each day so route knowledge shouldn't be an issue.

Just noticed that for the December timetable, those EMR paths via Marple have a Q path variant via Stockport, which doesn't appear to be the case for the current timetable, so maybe there is more to it.

 

[Killingworth]

Just noticed that for the December timetable, those EMR paths via Marple have a Q path variant via Stockport, which doesn't appear to be the case for the current timetable, so maybe there is more to it.

The December timetables have other hidden nuances. Like Northern's Sunday stopping service through.the Hope Valley is in the timetable and on RTT hourly, although 1 in 3 comes up as cancelled each week. Those trains can't be booked but the pathx are still there. They aren't from December.

 

[LowLevel]

The Hague Bar landslip near New Mills meant that many EMR crews lost the route knowledge of the Marple route. EMR have not been able to run route learning trips due to a shortage of units.

Route knowledge for drivers has been patchy for years, way before the landslip. Ironically for guards it is much more complete. Part of the issue is the availability of instructors or managers to do route pass outs for drivers.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Route knowledge for drivers has been patchy for years, way before the landslip. Ironically for guards it is much more complete. Part of the issue is the availability of instructors or managers to do route pass outs for drivers.

It's still poor and shows a lack of imagination in the modern railway.

It would have been possible to find at least a small handful of EMR drivers that did sign the road, and just have them shuttle between Sheffield and Manchester (or even stick a staff stop in at Chinley to exchange etc). Even if it's not the full service.

Or get Northern / freight / charter route conductors. Avanti are currently considering freight drivers for Settle and Carlisle diversions. This work at Stockport was a major engineering block, known about for years.

 

[Rail Ranger]

I know it involves changing at Sheffield but it is good that Northern are running in the EMR paths between Piccadilly and Sheffield (with through ticketing) if only on Monday to Friday. Shows some joined up thinking at long last.

 

[LowLevel]

It's still poor and shows a lack of imagination in the modern railway.

It would have been possible to find at least a small handful of EMR drivers that did sign the road, and just have them shuttle between Sheffield and Manchester (or even stick a staff stop in at Chinley to exchange etc). Even if it's not the full service.

Or get Northern / freight / charter route conductors. Avanti are currently considering freight drivers for Settle and Carlisle diversions. This work at Stockport was a major engineering block, known about for years.

They'd got a back up plan good to go but by that point Northern had already made plans to run their extra trains and taken the paths so that was that!

 

[Killingworth]

They'd got a back up plan good to go but by that point Northern had already made plans to run their extra trains and taken the paths so that was that!

The 5 coach Northern stoppers were doing very well at the weekend. They'd have done better still if they'd run every hour.

Weekdays they're running some fast and stoppers as either 3 or 5 car, seemingly splitting and joining in Sheffield and Manchester.

Pity EMR couldn't grab those currently unused Sunday stopping paths. Looks like they won't be for the foreseeable future.

 

[CM Punk]

On the positive side, EMR only running as far as Sheffield has meant they've had additional units to go to Skegness, think everything is 4+ cars during the Stockport blockade.

 

[Class 466]

Deleted

 

[Bovverboy]

How is a Hope Valley service a direct train between Manchester and Leeds? And is a Calder Valley train not one?

 

[The Planner]

They'd got a back up plan good to go but by that point Northern had already made plans to run their extra trains and taken the paths so that was that!

Hmmmm, there is some artistic license with that. They were quite happy with Northern running in the paths.

 

[LowLevel]

Hmmmm, there is some artistic license with that. They were quite happy with Northern running in the paths.

I suspect rather artistic license it is different silos within the business having different thoughts on the matter

 

[mangyiscute]

Does anyone know what route the RRBs are taking? Is it snake pass or the A628 or something else?

 

[M60lad]

Depends on the RRB driver and how bad A628 can be I suppose but most drivers use A630 (Sheffield Parkway), M1, A616, A628, M67, A57 if running to Piccadilly or M60 if running to Stockport.