Reading to London best single fare

[Watershed]

Against what law exactly. How would it be illegal to sell a ticket

Quite. What utter nonsense.

It's probably 'just' that GWR have overlooked the need to instruct their TVM supplier to add the new Project Oval paper ticket type codes (DOR/DOS) to the whitelist. But that's a very substantial omission, certainly given how long it's now been going on, and one that they should apologise and reimburse people for.

Sadly, back in the real world, they'll fix it at some point when they feel like it and anyone who's been overcharged will have to go to extraordinary lengths to get a comparatively small sum back. So obviously most people won't bother, if they even know they've been overcharged.

 

[WesternLancer]

Quite. What utter nonsense.

It's probably 'just' that GWR have overlooked the need to instruct their TVM supplier to add the new Project Oval paper ticket type codes (DOR/DOS) to the whitelist. But that's a very substantial omission, certainly given how long it's now been going on, and one that they should apologise and reimburse people for.

Sadly, back in the real world, they'll fix it at some point when they feel like it and anyone who's been overcharged will have to go to extraordinary lengths to get a comparatively small sum back. So obviously most people won't bother, if they even know they've been overcharged.

I wonder what would happen if you went to ticket office and asked for it not the TVM?

 

[Watershed]

I wonder what would happen if you went to ticket office and asked for it not the TVM?

Well as we've heard from others who have tried that, they've been refused by and large.

GWR really need to sort this out.

 

[Haywain]

It's probably 'just' that GWR have overlooked the need to instruct their TVM supplier to add the new Project Oval paper ticket type codes (DOR/DOS) to the whitelist.

I'm almost certain that is something that GWR will be managing in house, and not for the supplier to be doing.

 

[redreni]

The main reason I enquired at the customer service desk wasn't to give the chap a hard time, it's because at a major station like Oxford I was expecting that they might be able to sell me the ticket I wanted even if it wasn't available at the TVM. The very worst outcome I was expecting was to be told there was nobody there who could sell tickets.

Being shouted at and told I was asking for something that would be against the law was certainly well outside the range of possible responses I had anticipated.

 

[lnerazuma]

Can confirm GWR also hide the relevant off peak day return fare, wanna get an off peak day return from Denham to Reading earlier today in Paddington TVM but unsuccessful. A Worst group company. Be prepared to get sth like a SWT boundary fare lawsuit by the Reading mob I guess.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Can confirm GWR also hide the relevant off peak day return fare, wanna get an off peak day return from Denham to Reading earlier today in Paddington TVM but unsuccessful. A Worst group company. Be prepared to get sth like a SWT boundary fare lawsuit by the Reading mob I guess.

Sounds like they haven't asked Scheidt & Bachmann to whitelist the three new Off-Peak ticket types (DOS, DOR and DDR) for journeys within the Project Oval area.

Given they were introduced in March, that's concerning.

 

[JonathanH]

Sounds like they haven't asked Scheidt & Bachmann to whitelist the three new Off-Peak ticket types (DOS, DOR and DDR) for journeys within the Project Oval area.

Given they were introduced in March, that's concerning.

I'd speculate it is more about revenue defence and making it harder for people to purchase these tickets. The tickets are available on the S&B machines of other operators.

If GWR are seeing a peak in the use of Eynsford / Denham tickets from Thames Valley stations, then they may be seeking to control their sale.

 

[redreni]

Sounds like they haven't asked Scheidt & Bachmann to whitelist the three new Off-Peak ticket types (DOS, DOR and DDR) for journeys within the Project Oval area.

Given they were introduced in March, that's concerning.

At this point, TVMs should be required to have a prominent warning on them that they do not sell the full range of tickets and you may find a better price online or at a ticket office.

Not selling every single ticket is annoying but not the end of the world. Saying "here are the fares between the origin and destination specified", presenting a list of options and not giving any indication that not all publicly available fares are shown, is in my view unacceptable and probably discriminatory.

 

[furlong]

Given they were introduced in March, that's concerning.

It sometimes takes GWR several years to enable "new" fares. Can't see this getting fixed till there's a regulator with the teeth to force them to trace payments from all the people overcharged and compensate them properly.

 

[redreni]

I suspect it is more about revenue defence and making it harder for people to purchase these tickets. The tickets are available on the S&B machines of other operators.

Well, I hope the gentleman from the customer service desk at Oxford doesn't read this. He would be most upset that anybody would suspect such a thing.

 

[alistairlees]

I'd speculate it is more about revenue defence and making it harder for people to purchase these tickets. The tickets are available on the S&B machines of other operators.

If GWR are seeing a peak in the use of Eynsford / Denham tickets from Thames Valley stations, then they may be seeking to control their sale.

If that were true then it would be illegal. Comprehensively a breach of the TSA.

 

[WesternLancer]

I'd speculate it is more about revenue defence and making it harder for people to purchase these tickets. The tickets are available on the S&B machines of other operators.

If GWR are seeing a peak in the use of Eynsford / Denham tickets from Thames Valley stations, then they may be seeking to control their sale.

Surely there can’t be that many people who know this sort of thing of the total ticket flow reading to London?

 

[Jimini]

Pardon my ignorance; what's the benefit for the Denham tickets, the same as Eynsham ones (slightly cheaper)? TIA.

 

[Haywain]

I'd speculate it is more about revenue defence and making it harder for people to purchase these tickets.

No, it will be a cock-up, not a conspiracy. Those affected should complain to GWR and, if nothing changes, take it up with both the Ombudsman and their MP. This is also the sort of thing that Transport Focus and London Travelwatch are likely to be very interested in.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2025 ==

what's the benefit for the Denham tickets,

The ability to buy a ticket from Denham to Reading (especially if using a railcard)?

 

[JonathanH]

Surely there can’t be that many people who know this sort of thing of the total ticket flow reading to London?

We do know that GWR set these fares back to the old style pricing in March, then at some point thereafter reverted to the single leg pricing. That points to them keeping it under watch (although it could have been a mistake).

BRFares for off-peak day single Reading to Denham
£15.40 From 2 January 2025
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=RDG&dest=DNM&rte=200&ldn=1&tkt=CDS&period=20250102

£32.20 From 2 March 2025
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=RDG&dest=DNM&rte=200&ldn=1&tkt=DOS&period=20250302

£16.10 From 1 April 2025 (although it was actually later than that as I tried to buy one on 6 April 2025 and found the higher price being charged)
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=RDG&dest=DNM&rte=200&ldn=1&tkt=DOS&period=20250401

Pardon my ignorance; what's the benefit for the Denham tickets, the same as Eynsham ones (slightly cheaper)? TIA.

The fares from Reading to Eynsford are the same as those from Reading to Denham and stations to Beaconsfield.

 

[Jimini]

The fares from Reading to Eynsford are the same as those from Reading to Denham and stations to Beaconsfield.

Nice one, ta.

 

[JonathanH]

Sounds like they haven't asked Scheidt & Bachmann to whitelist the three new Off-Peak ticket types (DOS, DOR and DDR) for journeys within the Project Oval area.

Given they were introduced in March, that's concerning.

Some credibility to that idea does come from just having a play with the S&B TVM at Market Harborough which doesn't appear to retail off-peak flows with these ticket types (obviously using the 'Tickets from another station' functionality for relevant flows). Perhaps I need to play with a few more the S&B machines at a few more places.

However, having been to Northampton which retails all the DOS / DOR flows I tried, and then Paddington, it appears to me that GWR are restricting the sale for all DOS / DOR flows with their stations as the origin.

On the Paddington TVM, it offered off-peak tickets from Denham or Eynsford to Reading, or Redhill to Eynsford, Staines to Laindon, but not off-peak tickets from Reading to stations such as Sevenoaks, Denham, Eynsford or Laindon.

Essentially, GWR are not selling off-peak tickets from their stations to Ovalised destinations (although I didn't try all 52).

 

[lnerazuma]

My understanding is according to NRCoT all the Reading mobs can legally and confidently board a GWR train without a ticket now when the Paddington / Reading ticket office is closed (or in case they refuse to sell the relevant single leg pricing ticket) as they have no means to purchase a valid ticket from the first available opportunity. Yield & revenue optimisation / pricing mangers of worst group monitoring this post, be careful of what you wish for!

 

[Paul Kelly]

£16.10 From 1 April 2025 (although it was actually later than that

The dates used for the historical periods on BR Fares are normally a bit after the start of the period, as past experience has shown that it can take a while for initial mistakes after a fares change date to get fixed. You can see the actual date in the small print at the bottom of the page, in this case

Fare details correct as of 10 April 2025.

 

[redreni]

My understanding is according to NRCoT all the Reading mobs can legally and confidently board a GWR train without a ticket now when the Paddington / Reading ticket office is closed (or in case they refuse to sell the relevant single leg pricing ticket) as they have no means to purchase a valid ticket from the first available opportunity. Yield & revenue optimisation / pricing mangers of worst group monitoring this post, be careful of what you wish for!

Yes, I had thought about that. In the end I bought my Reading to Eynsford ticket online for the LNER cashback and collected it at Reading. I was tempted to see what would happen if I tried to buy it from Reading ticket office.

When I tried to buy the ticket at Oxford the previous day, there were no staff available to sell tickets but plenty policing the gateline. The attitude of the chap I spoke to, once he'd calmed down, was if I was aware of a cheaper fare than what the ticket machine was offering then I should buy it online. I can only speculate how the conversation might have gone if I had asked to be allowed through if they couldn't sell me the ticket I required. As it was, the issue didn't arise as I was trying to buy a ticket for travel the following day.

I suspect anyone travelling in either direction between Reading and Paddington would struggle to do as you suggested.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

Essentially, GWR are not selling off-peak tickets from their stations to Ovalised destinations (although I didn't try all 52).

If it really is cock-up rather than conspiracy, it's most unfortunate, isn't it?

 

[Hadders]

GWR has a ticket machine price guarantee (as does every other train company, I believe). It would be interesting to see what would happen if you made a claim.

Choosing your ticket | Ticket types | Great Western Railway

From off-peak tickets to rangers and rovers, find out about our range of train ticket types and make sure you choose the right ticket for your journey.

www.gwr.com

Ticket machine price guarantee​

In the unlikely event that you buy a ticket from one of our self-service machines, and then find a cheaper one for the identical journey, you could be entitled to a refund for the difference.

 

[alistairlees]

GWR has a ticket machine price guarantee (as does every other train company, I believe). It would be interesting to see what would happen if you made a claim.

Ticket machine price guarantee​

In the unlikely event that you buy a ticket from one of our self-service machines, and then find a cheaper one for the identical journey, you could be entitled to a refund for the difference.

"Guarantee" and "could" are hardly in agreement with one another...

 

[Haywain]

"Guarantee" and "could" are hardly in agreement with one another...

And "identical journey" will be the defining point.

 

[redreni]

"Guarantee" and "could" are hardly in agreement with one another...

No.

And the only way to deter overcharging is, of course, to impose an obligation to do more than refund the difference.

I don't think fines would be very effective, especially as we move (at glacial pace) towards a largely nationalised industry, so it would just be the state moving imaginary money around. So in my view, you have to impose an obligation to pay a suitable admin fee to passengers who have been overcharged and had to complain to get the excess refunded. £10 per ticket, perhaps?

This would have the double effect of discouraging overcharging by imposing a cost on it, which would have to be reported on and explained, and of discouraging overcharging by increasing the propensity of passengers who suspect they might have been overcharged to investigate and pursue the matter with the TOC, as they would be less likely to think it isn't worth their time.

 

[lnerazuma]

Tried to search for a ticket from Denham to Reading using the GA ticket vending machine at Liverpool Street earlier this week. Wasn't able to find the appropriate single leg off peak fare either for both direction.

 

[JonathanH]

Tried to search for a ticket from Denham to Reading using the GA ticket vending machine at Liverpool Street earlier this week. Wasn't able to find the appropriate single leg off peak fare either for both direction.

Was it between 4pm and 7pm? (I note that this time restriction only applies in the Reading direction.)

 

[lnerazuma]

Was it between 4pm and 7pm? (I note that this time restriction only applies in the Reading direction.)

I've tried it during weekend and a weekday night outside peak hour, both attempts only showed the anytime fare