Actual 377 and 387 Cascades (GN, SN, SE)

[Sutton in Ant]

387119 and 387121 moved over to Southern yesterday afternoon.

Slowly but surely. The electrostar cascade is taking place, and more to come in the next few months.

 

[stadler]

There has been quite a few more transfers so here is an up to date list as of today of which units have transferred:

SN to SE:
377 121
377 122
377 123
377 126
377 127
377 129
377 130

GN to SN:
387 119
387 121
387 123
387 126
387 127
387 128
387 129
387 301
387 302
387 305
387 306

The transfers definitely seem to be speeding up now so we should probably expect more in the coming days.

 

[444013]

387121 first day in service with Southern 26/05/2025 paired with 387223 started with 1W03 06:09 Brighton to Victoria...

 

[Class455]

377124 and 377128 moved to Southeastern over the weekend. This just leaves 377125 and 131-133 to move over to Southeastern.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Oh look, a Heathrow Express 387.



Or at least, you’d THINK it was!



(Not my photo / Image shows a brown 387112 at Cambridge)

That’s absolutely disgusting. I believe Great Northern are keeping 112? I hope it receives some TLC soon… that’s laughably bad.

 

[driverd]

Quick one for those who know (as I cannot remember) - which interior do 377121-133 have?

Fingers crossed Southern not giving away the good ones (2+2 throughout)!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Quick one for those who know (as I cannot remember) - which interior do 377121-133 have?

Fingers crossed Southern not giving away the good ones (2+2 throughout)!

This one throughout. The least popular one, according to most people on here. 377101-119 have the 2+2 throughout, with the sprung seats.

(Not my image / Image shows a Southern 377/1 interior (Connex walls) with 3+2 seating in the saloon space between the external doors and 2+2 seating with armrests in the space between external doors and internal gangway.)

 

[driverd]

View attachment 180842

I believe you're one of the people who know, do correct me if I'm wrong but...

Could you give me the run down of which 377/1s have which fit out? (From the pic I'm assuming those transferring are the ones with 2+2 at the ends and 3+2 in the middle)?

Is that the highest density layout on the /1s or are there some that are 3+2 throughout?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I believe you're one of the people who know, do correct me if I'm wrong but...

Could you give me the run down of which 377/1s have which fit out? (From the pic I'm assuming those transferring are the ones with 2+2 at the ends and 3+2 in the middle)?

Is that the highest density layout on the /1s or are there some that are 3+2 throughout?

None are 3+2 throughout, but considering the section between external door and internal gangways is already quite small, PLUS the front and rear most sections are first class, they are definitely a higher density interior 377 than others in Southern's fleet.

377101-119 have Connex beige walls, deep blue skirting and circle shaped PIS screens, with 2+2 seating, armrests and full size tables throughout.

377120-139 have Connex beige walls, deep blue skirting and circle shaped PIS screens, with the high density layout as described above.

377140 + and 377/2 have Southern pale blue walls, silver skirting and more contemporary rectangle PIS screens, with 2+2 seating, armrests and full size tables in the driving cars and 3+2 seating with half tables and no armrests in the centre cars.

377/4 and 377/5 are the same as 377140+ and 377/2, except First Class also has saloon doors.

377/3 have Connex beige walls, deep blue skirting and circle shaped PIS screens, with 2+2 seating, armrests and half size tables throughout.

377/6 and 377/7 obviously have the second generation Fainsa 2+2 layout throughout which is almost identical to the later 387s from a passenger perspective, although there are some minor differences.

 

[stadler]

I believe there are some that are 3+2 in all four carriages while some are 2+2 in all four carriages and some are 2+2 in driving carriages and 3+2 in centre carriages.

I believe this is the current 375 and 377 arrangement:

• 2+2 in all coaches:
377/1 (101 to 119 only), 377/3, 375/3, 375/6, 375/7, 375/8,

• 3+2 in all coaches:
377/1 (120 to 139 only), 375/9,

• 2+2 in driving coaches and 3+2 in centre coaches:
377/1 (140 to 164 only), 377/2, 377/4, 377/5,

It is certainly the most confusing stock when it comes to different interiors and seating layouts.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I believe there are some that are 3+2 in all four carriages

• 3+2 in all coaches:
377/1 (120 to 139 only)

Respectfully, this isn't correct. This is the case for the 375/9, but no 377 is entirely 3+2. 377120-139 have both 2+2 and 3+2 in all four carriages. The 3+2 is in the middle saloon section in between the two external doors. The outer sections have 2+2. For an example of what I mean see the image I attached in post 37

View attachment 180842

(Not my image / Image shows a Southern 377/1 interior (Connex walls) with 3+2 seating in the saloon space between the external doors and 2+2 seating with armrests in the space between external doors and internal gangway.)

 

[driverd]

None are 3+2 throughout, but considering the section between external door and internal gangways is already quite small, PLUS the front and rear most sections are first class, they are definitely a higher density interior 377 than others in Southern's fleet.

377101-119 have Connex beige walls, deep blue skirting and circle shaped PIS screens, with 2+2 seating, armrests and full size tables throughout.

377120-139 have Connex beige walls, deep blue skirting and circle shaped PIS screens, with the high density layout as described above.

377140 + and 377/2 have Southern pale blue walls, silver skirting and more contemporary rectangle PIS screens, with 2+2 seating, armrests and full size tables in the driving cars and 3+2 seating with half tables and no armrests in the centre cars.

377/4 and 377/5 are the same as 377140+ and 377/2, except First Class also has saloon doors.

377/3 have Connex beige walls, deep blue skirting and circle shaped PIS screens, with 2+2 seating, armrests and half size tables throughout.

377/6 and 377/7 obviously have the second generation Fainsa 2+2 layout throughout which is almost identical to the later 387s from a passenger perspective, although there are some minor differences.

I believe there are some that are 3+2 in all four carriages while some are 2+2 in all four carriages and some are 2+2 in driving carriages and 3+2 in centre carriages.

I believe this is the current 375 and 377 arrangement:

• 2+2 in all coaches:
377/1 (101 to 119 only), 377/3, 375/3, 375/6, 375/7, 375/8,

• 3+2 in all coaches:
377/1 (120 to 139 only), 375/9,

• 2+2 in driving coaches and 3+2 in centre coaches:
377/1 (140 to 164 only), 377/2, 377/4, 377/5,

It is certainly the most confusing stock when it comes to different interiors and seating layouts.

This encyclopedic knowledge is impressive anyway! You both have a much better awareness of the stock than I do.

I do like the variability of the units, though. Reminds me of growing up in West Yorkshire, at the back end of ATN/early Northern. On the odd occasion the parents/grandparents took me for a train journey somewhere, you wouldn't have a clue what was going to turn up and it was all a very exciting lottery as a child!

Anyway, back on topic - good to hear they've not shipped off the nice ones! (Selfishly), more likely for me to get a decent unit on my trips down to southern land.

 

[Phillipimo]

Not a great picture but the first time I've seen an ex-Southern unit heading into Charing Cross. Still in Southern livery but with SouthEastern stickers replacing the Southern logos on the carriages.

 

[physics34]

Not a great picture but the first time I've seen an ex-Southern unit heading into Charing Cross. Still in Southern livery but with SouthEastern stickers replacing the Southern logos on the carriages.

Time for a GBR interim livery....!

 

[martin butler]

Are the units that get transferred from GN, already 3rd rail pick up compatible, or do they need additional wiring mods when they are transferred, just lately i have seen a lot of dual voltage units on Southern services, some still branded Gatwick express,and some plain white, with no branding, on Ore to London Vic services.

 

[stadler]

Are the units that get transferred from GN, already 3rd rail pick up compatible, or do they need additional wiring mods when they are transferred, just lately i have seen a lot of dual voltage units on Southern services, some still branded Gatwick express,and some plain white, with no branding, on Ore to London Vic services.

They are already dual voltage. The entire fleet of 387 units were built as dual voltage units with both third rail shoes and pantographs. No modifications are required.

 

[martin butler]

So, then the GWR units, could in theory,as long as the connecting lines between the main line, and the Southern are wired, before going on to 3rd rail could if Paddington is closed, at any time, always divert into Waterloo, has this ever happened ?

 

[Failed Unit]

So, then the GWR units, could in theory,as long as the connecting lines between the main line, and the Southern are wired, before going on to 3rd rail could if Paddington is closed, at any time, always divert into Waterloo, has this ever happened ?

Some of the GWR ones have already gone to Sputhern (but returned). They don’t have shoes fitted but nothing on GN does. It doesn’t seem to be a challenge as the 387/3 have had shoes fitted for their 1st 3rd rail runs.

 

[stadler]

So, then the GWR units, could in theory,as long as the connecting lines between the main line, and the Southern are wired, before going on to 3rd rail could if Paddington is closed, at any time, always divert into Waterloo, has this ever happened ?

They could technically send 387s to London Waterloo if the connecting lines are wired but there is not much spare capacity on the line. The line via Wokingham and Ascot and Staines is only a double tracked line. GWR have diverted to London Waterloo during engineering work before but this was via the Woking and Basingstoke and Salisbury route.

 

[43096]

They could technically send 387s to London Waterloo if the connecting lines are wired but there is not much spare capacity on the line. The line via Wokingham and Ascot and Staines is only a double tracked line. GWR have diverted to London Waterloo during engineering work before but this was via the Woking and Basingstoke and Salisbury route.

FGW have diverted into Waterloo via Ascot in the past.

 

[LA50041]

Some of the GWR ones have already gone to Sputhern (but returned). They don’t have shoes fitted but nothing on GN does. It doesn’t seem to be a challenge as the 387/3 have had shoes fitted for their 1st 3rd rail runs.

My understanding is that all class 387 were delivered dual voltage and had shoes fitted from delivery as they were all initially ordered by southern on behalf of the DFT to a standard specification

 

[swt_passenger]

So, then the GWR units, could in theory,as long as the connecting lines between the main line, and the Southern are wired, before going on to 3rd rail could if Paddington is closed, at any time, always divert into Waterloo, has this ever happened ?

The connections aren’t wired, or 3rd railed. It’s a diesel only junction whether using the underpass from the up relief side, or the surface routes on the down main side.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2025 ==

They could technically send 387s to London Waterloo if the connecting lines are wired but there is not much spare capacity on the line. The line via Wokingham and Ascot and Staines is only a double tracked line. GWR have diverted to London Waterloo during engineering work before but this was via the Woking and Basingstoke and Salisbury route.

See above reply please.

 

[wickham]

The connections aren’t wired, or 3rd railed. It’s a diesel only junction whether using the underpass from the up relief side, or the surface routes on the down main side.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2025 ==


See above reply please.

What about Acton Main Line to Willesden West London Junction (for routing via Kensington) - some of this is electrified, but not all - Acton bank for instance ?

 

[swt_passenger]

What about Acton Main Line to Willesden West London Junction (for routing via Kensington) - some of this is electrified, but not all - Acton bank for instance ?

Acton bank is just being fitted with overhead. It’s not a very useful diversionary route towards Waterloo, it basically runs at max capacity through Olympia for LO purposes. If trains can reach Acton but not Paddington it’s more likely they’d be turned at Ealing Broadway, a slow route to Waterloo gives very little advantage.

 

[SteveU821]

Some of the GWR ones have already gone to Sputhern (but returned). They don’t have shoes fitted but nothing on GN does. It doesn’t seem to be a challenge as the 387/3 have had shoes fitted for their 1st 3rd rail runs.

The 387/3s have always had their shoe gear fitted, and so do all the GWR units. They are retractable and raised when working under AC overhead wires.

 

[Minstral25]

Any updates on next transfers - assume a load more 379's are bedding in at Great Northern, so presumably some more swaps soon.

 

[Class455]

Any updates on next transfers - assume a load more 379's are bedding in at Great Northern, so presumably some more swaps soon.

Nothing planned now until September, though some units could move early.

 

[Fincra5]

Oh look, a Heathrow Express 387.

View attachment 180841

Or at least, you’d THINK it was!

View attachment 180840

(Not my photo / Image shows a brown 387112 at Cambridge)

That’s absolutely disgusting. I believe Great Northern are keeping 112? I hope it receives some TLC soon… that’s laughably bad.

It just needs a hand bash! Don't be so over dramatic darling!

 

[Minstral25]

Nothing planned now until September, though some units could move early.

Thanks - that's what I expected - presumably a few moves then and another at Timetable change in Dec.

 

[Failed Unit]

It just needs a hand bash! Don't be so over dramatic darling!

It isn't a bad thing, it is the quickest way you can tell the difference between a 379 and a 387. The 379s are currently spotless (Externally)