Also now possible to actually connect into the Ipswich services from Newcastle (with a change at York on the outward, direct coming back) - been a gripe of mine for years that you'd arrive into Peterborough pretty much as that connection departs!
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December 2025 East Coast Timetable
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dk1
Veteran Member
That’s such good news as is much more limited in frequency. Sometimes been a Godsend for me if able to connect at Stowmarket if i miss the East Mids.
ABen90
Member
Alnmouth appears to have a significant down grade in the peaks. 7am then not a train till 9am into Newcastle. Then on the way back 4pm then 6pm. Not exactly encouraging for commuters! Real shame to see such a retrograde on the current service. Appreciate it’s only a small station but serves as a significant railhead for the Alnwick area.
XC hasn't been loaded in yet so we don't know if they've been able to keep those stops or not.
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The Northern Chathill service isn't in yet either.
Cross Country will be in the system later this week. Save concern till then!
The 0810 departure from Alnmouth was in the news in December and campaigned on by Senrug, a local pressure group. I think it's very unlikely that no departure at roughly that time is going to be available so don't worry.
ABen90
Member
Thanks all, seems I slightly (hopefully) jumped the gun!
eastcoast77
Member
Should still be 1V50 at 07:06 and 2A01 at 07:16 once these filter through into Realtime Trains
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Yup! 1Y06, 1Y10, 1Y16, 1Y19, 1Y21, 1N05, 1N08, 1N10, 1N14 & 1N33 would be five car sets with 1N07 and 1Y18 as ten cars.
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I think 1Wxx headcodes are going to be used in the South Yorkshire area so it's reverted back to avoid confusion at DoncasterI see that they have reverted back to having the extended Scotland services (Aberdeen, Inverness etc) with a 1S headcode instead of a 1W, anyone know why?
Example:
Realtime Trains | 1S11 1003 London Kings Cross to Aberdeen | 15/12/2025
Real-time train running information for 1S11 1003 departure from London Kings Cross to Aberdeen on 15/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.www.realtimetrains.co.uk
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There WAS an idea in an early draft to run the Harrogates as an extra service via the Hambleton curve but a 2.5 tph provision at Leeds is no longer a desire
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Personal comments on the Bradford Forster Square – London King’s Cross (off-peak) services.
Draft timetables appeared to suggest calls at Peterborough (as in the May 25 timetable), with no regular calls at Grantham. However the new timetable has no calls at either Grantham or Peterborough but does call at Newark NG and Stevenage. The Leeds – London trains on the opposite half hour call at both Grantham and Peterborough.
Personally I sometimes use
Grantham for Boston/Nottingham connections, Peterborough for Ely/Ipswich connections But I don't use Newark or Stevenage.
Also recently I've noticed a lot of Bradford – Peterborough customers on the direct services.
Anyone know why there's been a change of stopping pattern? Is there a big demand for Newark or Stevenage?
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XC has appeared now. XC departs Alnmouth at 0809. The Northbound service arrives at Alnmouth at 1804
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Several years ago the plan was for the York shorts to be retimed and their path used to provide a train every 2 hours to Leeds then Harrogate not via Wakefield, with 2-hourly services to both Bradford and Skipton. The Bradford plan was abandoned and then re-instated, but the others were just abandoned.
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
Rather interesting move has appeared at Edinburgh. 1S55 arrival from Plymouth now attaches with 5C49 ex Glasgow Central before the double set runs down to Craigentinny as 5S55. Don’t think I’ve seen something like this before locally. Happens at Birmingham a lot though.
XC back running to Aberdeen on all days as well.
XC back running to Aberdeen on all days as well.
Scotrail has appeared now as well. The 2tph to North Berwick on a Saturday has been reinstated.
Very good commuter service for East Lothian now but the off peak Mon-Fri Scotrail services to/from Dunbar feel like a waste of resources to me around 20 minutes after the TPE services, they are much better spaced out on Saturdays though.
Very good commuter service for East Lothian now but the off peak Mon-Fri Scotrail services to/from Dunbar feel like a waste of resources to me around 20 minutes after the TPE services, they are much better spaced out on Saturdays though.
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Riverside Redz
Member
I believe the current plan now is for the York’s to be extended to Middlesbrough in December 2027, already can be seen that the daily Middlesbrough service is now a York extension rather than its own standalone service
Its unusual to see an East Kilbride service be formed from an Ayrshire Coast train:
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
That guarantees a 380 on an EK run then
Realtime Trains | 2J20 1706 Glasgow Central to East Kilbride | 17/12/2025
Real-time train running information for 2J20 1706 departure from Glasgow Central to East Kilbride on 17/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
The Great Northern and Thameslink schedules are now on Real Time Trains, though December dates have VAR schedules not showing Cambridge South calls.
The platform working at Kings Cross suggest that for most of the day up Lynns form down Lynns, up Elys form down Elys and up stoppers form down stoppers. It is a bit more complicated in the peaks.
The platform working at Kings Cross suggest that for most of the day up Lynns form down Lynns, up Elys form down Elys and up stoppers form down stoppers. It is a bit more complicated in the peaks.
Class 170101
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Hopefully no Class 700s to Ely then.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Be great if that statement was no more 700s on non-Thameslink services.
Looks like it is the same disappointment that was in the draft. Slowing down of the peak service to stop at New Barnet. Moorgate services close together.
One positive operation is that the Sevenoaks services don’t shunt into the carriage sidings anymore at Welwyn Garden City. With the downgrade of the Kings Cross service I will probably use the Sevenoaks more as I am getting on it at the beginning and the number of stops is about the same. If both are operated by class 700s best be on it at the start of the route
bramling
Veteran Member
I’ve been having a very quick look through.
Shorter turnarounds for certain services, which isn’t going to bode well especially for the stopping services.
As I suspected, a mix of 700 and Electrostar for all the services groups which don’t go north of Cambridge. As far as I can see so far, everything north of Cambridge is 379, haven’t looked at weekends yet.
On balance I’d say this is a fairly negative change overall, though users north of Cambridge will likely appreciate the loss of 700s. I can’t see any other great improvement for GN users to be honest.
OneOfThe48
Member
The new peak set up could be a good change splitting up the passengers north and south of Letchworth onto different half-hourly trains into King’s Cross.
bramling
Veteran Member
I think it will be a shambles to be honest. For users at places like Letchworth and Hitchin it returns things to the pre-2018 setup where all the faster services start much further north, which essentially means less chance of a seat. Meanwhile there will be Cambridge passengers using the new services to get to London, whereas the better solution would be more 12-cars on the fast services.
For local passengers is breaks the link between places north of Letchworth and Welwyn/Hatfield, which strikes me as pretty negative. People from places like Hitchin who want choice of seats will take the much slower services, which will then have a negative effect further in, again essentially returning to the pre-2018 state of affairs.
Timekeeping on the stopping services I suspect is going to be appalling too, even more so than it is now.
It’s all quite unfortunate as the current GN timetable is actually rather good in a lot of ways, and the only really significant issue is performance, which I don’t think this change will help. If the current 700/0 diagrams could just change to Electrostar the current timetable would be quite good when it works.
From a a further out perspective the peak semi-fasts running to/from Cambridge is is good. I don't travel in the morning peak these days but I do expect to be using the 1724/1754/1824/1854 departures from Kings Cross in the evening to travel through to Cambridge.
The 1718/1748/1818 will be 12 cars. That solution has already happened.
The number of passengers doing this is small: Royston/Baldock-Welwyn GC/Hatfield one way flows are all about 3-4k. And they haven't been completely forgotten with 0703 Royston-Kings Cross in the morning and 1757 Kings Cross-Royston in the evening.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. One thing that looks good "on paper" is the down fast Cambridges no longer having to overtake the Brightons between Woolmer Green and Hitchin. My main concern is bunching up of down trains approaching Cambridge.
Failed Unit
Established Member
To me they are a little late. The students from Hatfield and people that work in WGC would be looking for something closer to 1730. That said a same platform change isn’t much of a hardship. As long as the wait isn’t massive.
Pre 2018 if I recall the morning service came from Cambridge but were non-stop after WGC. In the evening no stops between Finsbury Park and Hatfield but services ran at least to Royston (with splitting many locations).
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bramling
Veteran Member
Why on earth would you want to do that? A considerable number of extra stops when there's 2tph fast. Note also that two of these services will be formed of 700/0, the other two 8/387.
Does Cambridge really need further capacity on top of this?
The morning one may be useful, but I'm not sure who the evening one is aimed at.
I've had a look at the whole thing. I make it
25 379 diagrams (from 30)
8 387 diagrams (from 13)
Essentially 8 700/0 diagrams (though slightly complicated as there's a small amount of crossover onto the Sevenoaks services)
1 700/1 diagram.
I'll hopefully have a more detailed look at a later date and confirm the above.
As far as I can see, everything north of Cambridge is 379. Contrary to rumours, the 387s aren't confined to peak-only work. They work a proportion of the stopping services throughout the day, and some of the peak extras.
I presume the spare 387s could work the 700/1 Peterborough out-and-back working if required.
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Failed Unit
Established Member
It makes sense to run all assets at all times of the day. The 387s in particular are extremely reliable. It would be crazy to have them stood down, then use the 700s instead.
A more comfortable and less crowded journey.
After Hitchin the front of the train will be almost empty.
Yes. Of flows with one station outside London, Kings Cross-Cambridge is 8th largest on the network at 2.8m 2 way journeys, behind only Stansted, Gatwick, Reading, Milton Keynes, Manchester Picc, Watford Junc and Woking. How many of them only have 2tph?
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The last Cambridge stopper before the evening peak is the 1627 off Hatfield at 1652 and Welwyn GC at 1658. Not many students will be too late for that.
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