South Wales 'Metro' updates

[J663738]

Am I missing something here,
They say in that letter to residents that the hours of work are 20th July to 8th August between 21:00 and 05:00 for safety to avoid trains. But isn't the line closed anyway during those dates??? or can they not coordinate maintenance line movements with the tree cutting?

 

[AdamWW]

Am I missing something here,
They say in that letter to residents that the hours of work are 20th July to 8th August between 21:00 and 05:00 for safety to avoid trains. But isn't the line closed anyway during those dates???

It's closed north of Caerphilly.

Llanishen is south of that.

 

[J663738]

It's closed north of Caerphilly.

Llanishen is south of that.

Sorry understood only saw the Rhymney bit! its the way this forum shows attachments, either way too small to read or zoomed in so much, its like reading something through a magnifying glass.

 

[AdamWW]

Sorry understood only saw the Rhymney bit! its the way this forum shows attachments, either way too small to read or zoomed in so much, its like reading something through a magnifying glass.

Maybe depends on the browser. I get it at a nice size when I click on it.

 

[chrisjo]

Sorry understood only saw the Rhymney bit! its the way this forum shows attachments, either way too small to read or zoomed in so much, its like reading something through a magnifying glass.

Try it now.

 

[MikePJ]

Here’s construction progress at Butetown up platform: you can see the foundation for the lift clearly and the casting of the retaining wall has moved on a bit.

 

[positron]

I realised the other day that Butetown almost certainly won't open until the line changes to line-of-sight operation, because a) there's a fixed distant signal on the down platform that'll have to stay there until the signalling rules change, and b) the crossing between the two platforms is a tramway-style flat crossing so not compatible with heavy-rail-style operation.

I think they'll likely be planning to just open a single platform while the line is still running single track, I don't think the double track operation is due to take place for a good while yet.

 

[J663738]

Interesting media stories yesterday about TfW, saying bonuses are paid to some staff which are linked to the number of tickets they scan. I am still amazed that with all the penalty fare signage on the Metro and the PAYG system, conductors seem very happy to still sell tickets on board, as well as check them.
I wonder how long before TfW realises that a conductor together with a revenue protection officer can rake in a lot more money!

 

[AdamWW]

Interesting media stories yesterday about TfW, saying bonuses are paid to some staff which are linked to the number of tickets they scan. I am still amazed that with all the penalty fare signage on the Metro and the PAYG system, conductors seem very happy to still sell tickets on board, as well as check them.
I wonder how long before TfW realises that a conductor together with a revenue protection officer can rake in a lot more money!

Suddenly starting to issue PFs on board when, as you say, guards have continued to happily sell tickets without asking questions would be an excellent way to generate a lot of negative PR I'd have thought.

 

[Caaardiff]

I wonder how long before TfW realises that a conductor together with a revenue protection officer can rake in a lot more money!

Do you mean collect the revenue that passengers should be paying anyway?

 

[J663738]

Do you mean collect the revenue that passengers should be paying anyway?

No, also charge a PF, doesn't have to be huge, maybe just £10. The same as they charge on PAYG customers if you forget to tap out. Seem strange to penalise those trying to use the new system, but ignore those who 'forget' to buy a ticket in the first place.

 

[Dai Corner]

Interesting media stories yesterday about TfW, saying bonuses are paid to some staff which are linked to the number of tickets they scan. I am still amazed that with all the penalty fare signage on the Metro and the PAYG system, conductors seem very happy to still sell tickets on board, as well as check them.
I wonder how long before TfW realises that a conductor together with a revenue protection officer can rake in a lot more money!

I suspect they get more commission/bonus for selling a ticket than for scanning one or checking a passenger has tapped in.

If I remember correctly the 398s were going to be driver only operated with any second member of train crew dealing only with customer service and revenue protection but the RMT successfully negotiated for guards and their safety-critical duties to be retained.

 

[MikePJ]

TfW brought in penalty fares in September last year (at the relatively low penalty charge of £20) and said at the time that the penalty will eventually rise to £100. A lot of local people are used to buying on the train, and the impression that I'm given is that there's a long transition period where conductors are being encouraged to be lenient with passengers who genuinely expect to buy a ticket on board, but that eventually it'll be enforced more tightly.

 

[Envoy]

They really need to put a ‘Have You Tapped Out’ notice on station exits.

 

[positron]

TfW brought in penalty fares in September last year (at the relatively low penalty charge of £20) and said at the time that the penalty will eventually rise to £100. A lot of local people are used to buying on the train, and the impression that I'm given is that there's a long transition period where conductors are being encouraged to be lenient with passengers who genuinely expect to buy a ticket on board, but that eventually it'll be enforced more tightly.

I spoke to a guard about this a while back and he basically said there was no way he could see it ever getting enforced on the valleys. Too many kids etc traveling and buying on the train is just all they know.

Even just the threat of a penalty fare might increase revenue enough to not often need to use it.

Imo the penalty should only be used in cases that people have a ticket that's incorrect (such as a child ticket when they're an adult) but I think that's covered by a separate system anyway and likely is already enforced?

 

[J663738]

They really need to put a ‘Have You Tapped Out’ notice on station exits.

Funny you should mention that! I emailed TfW to put a few signs up as it's obvious when you enter stations, but when you leave the same station after dark and especially when you have had a pint or two! They are very easy to miss. Never even got a reply

 

[MikePJ]

Too many kids etc traveling and buying on the train is just all they know.

Once PAYG is better established, I'd expect TfW to launch something like London's Zip card for under-18s - it's a pre-paid card that gives child rate fares.

 

[John R]

Too many kids etc traveling and buying on the train is just all they know.

Or not buying on the train maybe?

 

[AdamWW]

Or not buying on the train maybe?

Never seen one fail to buy on the train when asked to. (Though I have elsewhere in the UK).

 

[J663738]

I do take exception to people saying on board enforcement will lead to bad publicity etc. The vast majority pay and buy before they board. If those who don't are taken to account, then so much better for everyone and cheaper fares in the long run, good PR in fact.

When the conductor comes around on my route it's always the same destination for anyone without a ticket "a single to Grangetown please" i.e. they were going between two stations close together without barriers and the conductor sometimes doesn't make it to the front of the train to check all the tickets. So not they forgot, but are trying to avoid paying.

 

[AdamWW]

I do take exception to people saying on board enforcement will lead to bad publicity etc. The vast majority pay and buy before they board. If those who don't are taken to account, then so much better for everyone and cheaper fares in the long run, good PR in fact.

When the conductor comes around on my route it's always the same destination for anyone without a ticket "a single to Grangetown please" i.e. they were going between two stations close together without barriers and the conductor sometimes doesn't make it to the front of the train to check all the tickets. So not they forgot, but are trying to avoid paying.

I'd agree if I thought the vast majority buying on board were attempting to fare evade. Perhaps it varies by route - it's certainly not my experience when I'm travelling with TfW. For a start I mostly see people buying tickets to Queen Street or Central.

And I don't think they forgot to buy beforehand either, they've just carried on buying on board as they did before there were station ticket machines and nobody has ever told them to stop. And yes there are signs, though the ones that went up when the ticket machines appeared did not make it clear at all that the presence of a machine meant you had to use it. And if guards carry on selling on trains as before, it's entirely reasonable to think it's OK to do so.

Yes I want to see the fare evaders stopped, and I would be happy to see Penalty Fares issued on board.

But NOT without giving fair warning to honest passengers. Handing out a ticket one day and a penalty fare the next without any warning is not reasonable.

But I think any further discussion probably ought to be in a different thread.

(Added - and since most ticket machines only take cards and therefore despite the signs to the contrary at stations it's permissible to pay cash on board, enforcement would be rather difficult anyway).

 

[Krokodil]

Never seen one fail to buy on the train when asked to.

Including the kids north of Pontypridd?

On mainline routes we have enough issues with kids joyriding with no intention of paying.

 

[Kingston Flyer]

Including the kids north of Pontypridd?

On mainline routes we have enough issues with kids joyriding with no intention of paying.

I seem to remember there being a few who travelled daily for school, Llanharan to Pontyclun return not long after the former re-opened.
They hoped not to pay, and occasionally played the 'what you going to do, kick us off at the next station' card if caught

 

[Envoy]

When the conductor comes around on my route it's always the same destination for anyone without a ticket "a single to Grangetown please" i.e. they were going between two stations close together without barriers and the conductor sometimes doesn't make it to the front of the train to check all the tickets. So not they forgot, but are trying to avoid paying.

The conductors have multiple points to operate the doors on the new trains so hopefully they won't always be coming from the rear to check tickets and that will help get the ‘dodgers’ who make for the front of the trains. Of course, it would help if the drivers did the release of the doors to make it a slicker operation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jul 2025 ==

I seem to remember there being a few who travelled daily for school, Llanharan to Pontyclun return not long after the former re-opened.
They hoped not to pay, and occasionally played the 'what you going to do, kick us off at the next station' card if caught

I think that TFW should contact the head of any school where the kids are making regular runs without buying tickets. If the kids have free travel, then presumably they have a pass and TFW get compensation?

 

[AdamWW]

Of course, it would help if the drivers did the release of the doors to make it a slicker operation.

Yes. I timed dwell times on a 756 today, on a train that wasn't all that busy.

It varied between 45 and 59 seconds from wheel stop to wheel start.

Even with the guard continuing to release doors it would speed things up a bit if the trains could be modified so that if a passenger presses the open button before the doors are released the ramp extends.

Or just extend them all when the guard opens a local door.

They seem very protective over the door ramp motors, though they're happy to have the doors themselves constantly shutting themselves and being opened again.

 

[Kingston Flyer]

I think that TFW should contact the head of any school where the kids are making regular runs without buying tickets. If the kids have free travel, then presumably they have a pass and TFW get compensation?

This was well before the days of TFW, likely just still (technically) Valley lines Maesteg - Gloucester (before extension to Cheltenham), and I highly doubt the school were aware at all.
Most people I know either walked or were driven to school by a parent.
A few buses operated, but mostly from Llanharry or Tonyrefail areas.
Trains wouldn't be thought of, as I said it was not long after Llanharan re-opened. The next nearest stations (Pencoed & Cardiff) would pupils going to school much closer to them

 

[J663738]

Considering the long dwell times at stations for the 231/756. Does anyone know are the door ramps adaptive, i.e. do they sense the platform edge and are stopped by a proximity sensor or do they just extend by a set amount, which is determined by engineering tolerances of trains and platforms?
The button issues really need to be addressed, as I have seen people press the button when they hear all the door ramps operate, but not realise their press has not been registered and stand there waiting for the door to open. On a long run between Barry Island Rhymney, 26 stops, every extra few seconds sat at a station adds up.

 

[Krokodil]

I think that TFW should contact the head of any school where the kids are making regular runs without buying tickets.

Some schools are more cooperative than others.

 

[J663738]

Passed by Ty Glag station and wondered what progress has been made over two weeks. The answer is I don't think they have even started. The were a few white bags on pallets where the extension will go, but I think they have been there for some time.
If this was my local station I would be rather angry that the closure does not coincide with the actual work!

Somebody asked earlier how this project could possibly take six months, I think we have our answer.

 

[AdamWW]

Passed by Ty Glag station and wondered what progress has been made over two weeks. The answer is I don't think they have even started. The were a few white bags on pallets where the extension will go, but I think they have been there for some time.
If this was my local station I would be rather angry that the closure does not coincide with the actual work!

Somebody asked earlier how this project could possibly take six months, I think we have our answer.

Six months? I think it's supposed to be ten.

The reason for the station being closed already despite the work not starting is presumably because the 756s can't call...which perhaps explains why unlike the City line it has to close completely to make the platform a bit longer at one end.