WCML Disruption 30/07/2025

[MatthewE707]

I’m booked on the 1046 from Euston to Crewe which has been cancelled along with most trains from Euston. Any advice on how to get to Crewe as soon as possible? Wait at Euston or go from Marylebone?

 

[liamf656]

I’m booked on the 1046 from Euston to Crewe which has been cancelled along with most trains from Euston. Any advice on how to get to Crewe as soon as possible? Wait at Euston or go from Marylebone?

I'm not sure on what's running or which way is quickest but EMR to Derby then Crewe might be worth looking at. Have a look at ticket acceptance before you go as I've not checked myself

11:02 STP to Derby arrive 12:30
12:45 Derby to Crewe arrive 14:00

 

[MatthewE707]

It’s showing ticket acceptance allowed for Avanti tickets but not LNR

 

[zwk500]

Signalmaps.com is showing All signals at Red around MK and Bourne End Jn, trains behind held in platforms.

I suspect it will be quicker to wait at Euston as once some lines reopen the WCML will start recovering, but otherwise the quickest alternative route is likely to be Marylebone-Moor St then New St - Crewe, as there's more trains from New St to Crewe than from Derby.

EDIT (1038): A northbound train from MKC has been given the road. Looks like things south of MK are still being held for the moment.

 

[Class15]

Booked on the 12:46 to Crewe. How likely is it that it will be canned?

 

[Watershed]

Ticket acceptance is in place for LNR ticket holders as follows (quoting from their JourneyCheck website):

Your ticket can be used, at no extra cost, with the following operators:

Chiltern Railway:
* Birmingham Moor Street - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Bicester - Aylesbury - London Marylebone.

East Midlands Trains:
* Bedford - Luton - London St Pancras..

London Northwestern Railway:
* Bedford - Bletchley, to connect with services to London St Pancras.
* St Albans Abbey - Watford Junction, to connect with services to London St Pancras.

West Midlands Railway:
* Worcester and Birmingham New Street
* Nuneaton - Coventry - Leamington Spa.

Thameslink:
* Bedford - Luton - Luton Airport Parkway - St Albans - London St Pancras.

London Overground:
* London Euston and Watford Junction (if they are not affected by this disruption).

London Underground:
* Metropolitan Line: Kings Cross/St Pancras - Euston Square - Baker Street - Chesham - Rickmansworth - Watford Tube - Amersham.
* Circle / Hammersmith & City line: Kings Cross/St Pancras - Euston Square - Baker Street (for Marylebone) - Paddington.

TfL Buses:
* London Buses between Kings Cross/St Pancras - Euston - Baker Street - Paddington.

Arriva Buses:
* Bus Route 500 (Arriva Bus) Tring - Berkhamstead - Hemel Hempstead - Apsley - Kings Langely - Watford
* Bus Route F70/F77 (Arriva Bus) Milton Keynes - Bletchley - Leighton Buzzard
* Bus Route 150 (Arriva Bus) Milton Keynes - Leighton Buzzard

Travelling from Marylebone via Moor Street and New Street/Smethwick Galton Bridge is probably the quickest alternative option permitted by the above.

Travelling from St Pancras via Derby would be quicker but it's not included in that list. Given the scale of the disruption you are likely to be delayed by more than an hour, and as such you likely have the legal right to be re-routed "at the earliest opportunity", i.e. as quickly as possible. That means if LNR refuse to arrange ticket acceptance or to endorse your ticket for EMR, you should buy a new ticket and claim it back afterwards from LNR's customer services.

 

[800001]

EMR services will certainly be cosy, 1043 Piccadilly to Norwich service formed of a 6 car 170, departed full and standing.However it did clear the platform of the London bound customers.

 

[DarloRich]

reduced service on the MV today due to "more trains than usual requiring repair" so I would avoid Bedford > Bletchley sadly

 

[SCDR_WMR]

EDIT (1038): A northbound train from MKC has been given the road. Looks like things south of MK are still being held for the moment.

Emergency services around Berkhamsted by the looks of it, 1R28. Nothing will be moving past for a while.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ticket acceptance is in place for LNR ticket holders as follows (quoting from their JourneyCheck website):
Travelling from Marylebone via Moor Street and New Street/Smethwick Galton Bridge is probably the quickest alternative option permitted by the above.

Travelling from St Pancras via Derby would be quicker but it's not included in that list. Given the scale of the disruption you are likely to be delayed by more than an hour, and as such you likely have the legal right to be re-routed "at the earliest opportunity", i.e. as quickly as possible. That means if LNR refuse to arrange ticket acceptance or to endorse your ticket for EMR, you should buy a new ticket and claim it back afterwards from LNR's customer services.

On NRE, Tamworth-Derby-St Pancras (XC/EMR) is allowed for LNR passengers.

 

[Watershed]

On NRE, Tamworth-Derby-St Pancras (XC/EMR) is allowed for LNR passengers.

Under CrossCountry, it says:

• Tamworth and Derby (to connect with East Midlands Railway services to London St Pancras International)

But EMR isn't actually listed as one of the operators there's ticket acceptance for (as an LNR passenger).

You'd hope common sense would be used, but given this is the rail industry we're talking about...

 

[800001]

1A30 11:15 Manchester to Euston looks like it's about to depart, trts pressed.
Service has boarded and green light given.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

1A30 11:15 Manchester to Euston looks like it's about to depart, trts pressed.
Service has boarded and green light given.

They can send it, but it will stop somewhere. 1R28 hasn't moved, and line back is due around 1400. What time is 1A30 due into Euston?

 

[zwk500]

They can send it, but it will stop somewhere. 1R28 hasn't moved, and line back is due around 1400. What time is 1A30 due into Euston?

Is 1400 for all lines or can they get the Up Slow open before?

 

[800001]

They can send it, but it will stop somewhere. 1R28 hasn't moved, and line back is due around 1400. What time is 1A30 due into Euston?

I'm sure NR and Avanti know what they are doing with it, otherwise they would not let it depart.

 

[zwk500]

I'm sure NR and Avanti know what they are doing with it.

Signalmaps showing Up Slow Reopened. 1Y23 was released on the Down Slow from Hemel but the queue behind it hasn't yet been allowed past Hemel (waiting for 1S48 to cross DF to DS at Bourne End). Trains being weaved onto the slows at Ledburn Jn and Watford Jn so looks like an extended piece of 2-track working. Will be fun for control and the Signallers.

Looks like both slows have been handed back though.

 

[MatthewE707]

Just left Euston on 1141 to Liverpool (14 mins late). 1133 to Manchester and 1138 to Glasgow will be following

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Signalmaps showing Up Slow Reopened. 1Y23 was released on the Down Slow from Hemel but the queue behind it hasn't yet been allowed past Hemel (waiting for 1S48 to cross DF to DS at Bourne End). Trains being weaved onto the slows at Ledburn Jn and Watford Jn so looks like an extended piece of 2-track working. Will be fun for control and the Signallers.

Looks like both slows have been handed back though.

That's good to hear! It's a pain and service needs thining out but better than being closed

 

[zwk500]

That's good to hear! It's a pain and service needs thining out but better than being closed

All 4 lines appear to be open now, but there seems to be lots of residual delays for things like awaiting clear platforms at Euston and getting freight moving again.

 

[Audioguy]

Family member says Euston is currently overflowing outside and the trains that are starting to prepare to leave have more people on the platforms trying to get on them than can fit on the trains. She's giving up and trying again this evening.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

To be expected, school holidays, service shut down for a few hours. Will always be the case.

Give it a few hours and it will be back to some form of normality

 

[87015]

To be expected, school holidays, service shut down for a few hours. Will always be the case.

Give it a few hours and it will be back to some form of normality

And then some more hours before anyone at WMR realises south of Rugby exists?

 

[Audioguy]

Trains still running late but most seem to be getting out of the station eventually.

 

[merry]

Under CrossCountry, it says:

But EMR isn't actually listed as one of the operators there's ticket acceptance for (as an LNR passenger).

You'd hope common sense would be used, but given this is the rail industry we're talking about...

As i have mentioned before, it's educational to read clause 28.2 of the CofC.
"Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your Ticket is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination..." (and more about alternatives).
ANY train company, not just the affected ones.
No mention of ticket acceptance restrictions.
So when disrupted, I have never in 40 years of independent travel paid any here to "ticker acceptance", and never been challenged either.
E.g. Go to the EML instead of ECML when the latter's at a stand? No questions asked, 'refugee from the ECML' welcomed with a smile. If possible, i ask staff if my diversion is allowed, and tell the guard at first opportunity. Not been challenged for a long, long time but if I were to be it's back to the CofC. 'Reasonable' is a broad instrument in contracts and rules, and generally intended to be read generously - the converse test would be "is it unreasonable, to an ordinary person", which is a test with a fairly high bar!

 

[Watershed]

As i have mentioned before, it's educational to read clause 28.2 of the CofC.
"Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your Ticket is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination..." (and more about alternatives).
ANY train company, not just the affected ones.
No mention of ticket acceptance restrictions.

I'm well aware of condition 28.2 and it indeed can be a valuable right. But it is generally understood as only applying where you would otherwise be stranded overnight - "prevents you from completing the journey" - not just delayed on the day of travel. Given that the line was expected to reopen, and indeed has, it would be doubtful that the disruption would prevent you from completing the journey on e.g. an LNR only ticket.

So when disrupted, I have never in 40 years of independent travel paid any here to "ticker acceptance", and never been challenged either.
E.g. Go to the EML instead of ECML when the latter's at a stand? No questions asked, 'refugee from the ECML' welcomed with a smile. If possible, i ask staff if my diversion is allowed, and tell the guard at first opportunity. Not been challenged for a long, long time but if I were to be it's back to the CofC.

I'm glad you haven't encountered any problems on your journeys - but I have heard enough stories, seen enough encounters with staff onboard trains challenging people etc. to know that this is far from always being the case. There is always that small minority of staff who delight in further inconveniencing people who have been disrupted by charging them extra for new tickets.

Legally speaking you are also committing an offence under Byelaw 18, and possibly under section 5(3)(a) of the Regulation of Railways Act, if you board a train your ticket (or ticket acceptance) doesn't permit. You could be prosecuted or be issued with a Penalty Fare, so it's not just the cost of a new Anytime fare at stake. That's not a theoretical position either, we have seen numerous cases of both following disruption on the forum.

'Reasonable' is a broad instrument in contracts and rules, and generally intended to be read generously - the converse test would be "is it unreasonable, to an ordinary person", which is a test with a fairly high bar!

Yes, but the issue is not whether a TOC reasonable can provide alternative transport (which as you say, is to be interpreted in the passenger's favour) - it is that disruption such as this is unlikely to trigger 28.2 in the first place.

 

[merry]

I'm well aware of condition 28.2 and it indeed can be a valuable right. But it is generally understood as only applying where you would otherwise be stranded overnight - "prevents you from completing the journey" - not just delayed on the day of travel. Given that the line was expected to reopen, and indeed has, it would be doubtful that the disruption would prevent you from completing the journey on e.g. an LNR only ticket.


I'm glad you haven't encountered any problems on your journeys - but I have heard enough stories, seen enough encounters with staff onboard trains challenging people etc. to know that this is far from always being the case. There is always that small minority of staff who delight in further inconveniencing people who have been disrupted by charging them extra for new tickets.

Legally speaking you are also committing an offence under Byelaw 18, and possibly under section 5(3)(a) of the Regulation of Railways Act, if you board a train your ticket (or ticket acceptance) doesn't permit. You could be prosecuted or be issued with a Penalty Fare, so it's not just the cost of a new Anytime fare at stake. That's not a theoretical position either, we have seen numerous cases of both following disruption on the forum.


Yes, but the issue is not whether a TOC reasonable can provide alternative transport (which as you say, is to be interpreted in the passenger's favour) - it is that disruption such as this is unlikely to trigger 28.2 in the first place.

Interesting. It's a fair point and I can see how a few readings of the text could be made. I would argue that 'in reasonable time' is implicit in the concept of disruption, but like the reading of "not completing at all" is neither clearly included nor properly excluded, so you are right to advocate caution. Looking another way, as worded, one could also argue that "your journey" includes a time element if the journey has reservations, and extensive delay causes the planned journey not to be possible. I am not advocating use of the clause for small dusruption, for sure, but where it's likely many hours.
Also, I tend not to use advance /operator-specific tickets often so the flexibility of 'permitted routes' - which is often surprisingly broad, at least outside the London/SE area (which I know less) - helps a great deal. It is likely and fair that an advance or a specified operator ticket would be questioned more deeply. And my point of making oneself known to staff when doing this massively reduces the risk of problems. On a good day they'll even endorse your ticket to help! (as also happened to allow simple travel back on the occasion I got on the wrong service at the last minute).

Sadly, it is also the case that a minority of railway staff (and it sometimes seems management too) take more joy in being difficult than in helping passengers. Which would be bad if one met them in such circumstances...
It is also of course important that any alternative routes used be reasonable, and have capacity (at least to stand), of course, if one is to have any hope of being accepted!

But anyway, thank you for the caveats and cautions.

 

[MarkWi72]

Yes, it was a troublesome day on the WCML. All thoughts with the deceased and their loved ones. What happened to us is a minor inconvenience in context of what happened to the poor person at Berkhamsted.

I was on 2K10 , 9.30 from MKC. I'd got split fare tickets and had to change off 1Y19. Didn't want to try it on and end up paying more. Just before Leighton Buzzard, near Linslade, we started to slow to a crawl , through Ledburn and stopped for 2 hours 25 minutes in Cheddington. Went slowly to Tring through the cutting then made good time. Felt eerie as we went through Berkhamsted.

Got to Euston at 1pm. It was chaos, as you can imagine. Crowds overflowing into the outer quadrant and luckily I needed Euston Square, so quickly made my way out.

Then this evening, not quite as bad, but still a bit chaotic when I returned at 7.15pm. I was going to Hampton-In-Arden and noticed no semi fasts or stoppers were running from Euston. But the 9G41 Wolves service was announced and there was a stampede. I got into the end coach and into 1st class. Asked Avanti staff if it was ok, and they weren't sure, but I stayed on after a quick nod of heads. A fight broke out in first class, about seats I think, plus a dose of racism towards an Indian passenger. Got a seat after MKC. Changed at Cov. Am back quicker than scheduled cheapo ticket. Semi fasts were starting at Bletchley for New Street.

There was little knowledge of what happened and I told one or two folks who obviously didn't know. They were being quick to blame the railways , but any incident like this has a 12 hour knock on effect. It's the busiest line in Europe, so chaos will occur. We need HS2 ASAP.

 

[LTJ87]

On the issue of ticket acceptance between West Midlands Railway and Avanti West Coast, I've encountered this a lot.

It seems to be standard practice for West Midlands Railway to terminate inbound services to Euston at Milton Keynes Central if there's a delay of around 30 minutes.

On a number of occasions, all passengers have been booted off a West Midlands Railway train at MKC to be told on the tannoy we cannot board any AWC trains as no ticket acceptance in place. So rather than boarding a AWC service that's just about to pull into MKC, passengers are told to wait 20+ minutes for the next, and often slower, train to Euston.

I've never had the argument with an AWC train manager but if your train is terminated, you should be able to get to where you need to as quickly as possible by any reasonable route.

 

[voyagerdude220]

There was little knowledge of what happened and I told one or two folks who obviously didn't know. They were being quick to blame the railways , but any incident like this has a 12 hour knock on effect. It's the busiest line in Europe, so chaos will occur. We need HS2 ASAP.

If the train crew on your train weren't advising pax why trains were being delayed/particularly busy/overcrowded yesterday, I don't blame them for blaming the Railway despite it not being it's fault. If I was working either on the Station or on a Train, I'd announce and explain the disruption was a reaction to emergency services dealing with an incident in the morning which was taking a long time to deal with.

 

[negone]

Was waiting on the 18.40 Avanti Glasgow Central to Euston, (crowd waiting) it left about 20.00 and I got into Liverpool Lime Street 23.45. Avanti paid for a taxi home, probably because the last northern service out of Wigan North Western didn’t stop at my terminating station, and the buses had stopped running.

Just a big thank you to the train manger, and staff on Avanti who did a great job, calmly and professional under the pressure