Australia: Stark warning about "Journey Beyond" train operator

[doc7austin]

"Journey Beyond" is operating the Ghan and Indian Pacific tourist trains in Australia.

This train operator has cancelled my train journey last March. I did book the ticket directly on the website of "Journey Beyond".

You would think that a money refund is just a formality. No, it isn't, because non-Australian citizens can practically not receive any refund.
The Executive General Manager of Journey Beyond has written:
"Our policy for any refunds, requires an Australian Government certified document to verify a person’s identity, "

So I'd advise to stay away from this shady train operator, if you do not possess an Australian Government certified document.

 

[A S Leib]

Would an entry visa count as an Australian government-certified document?

 

[ainsworth74]

Obviously shocking customer service but worth going back to them again as their Terms and Conditions are quite clear on the options:

5. CANCELLATIONS BY US

If we cancel your Journey for reasons other than Force Majeure (see below), you will be offered (at your election) a refund of all funds received, the offer of an alternative Journey of comparable quality if appropriate or a Credit Note. If we cancelled a Rail Journey aboard The Overland due to either the Victorian or South Australian State Government’s decision to cease funding for The Overland, then we will provide you with a refund of all funds paid.

To the fullest extent permitted by law, we will not be responsible for any other loss or costs you incur (for example, airfares not included in your Journey, insurance and visa expenses) if your Journey or particular Journey Services are cancelled for any reason.

https://www.journeybeyondrail.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/00502JB-Terms-and-Conditions-JBR-07.2025-Rail.pdf

No mention of needing to have Australian Government approved ID there!

Failing that it's probably one for the credit card company (if you paid through them) and/or travel insurance. But I'd certainly go back to them first and point out their own Ts & Cs are clear on what happens and state no requirement for certified ID.

 

[doc7austin]

Would an entry visa count as an Australian government-certified document?

I'd assume you are referring to a Subclass 651 eVisitor visa, which most European and US tourists to Australia are using.
In that you are only receiving a PDF file without any photo.

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/evisitor-651

I doubt that Journey Beyond would accept this PDF file.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2025 ==

Obviously shocking customer service but worth going back to them again as their Terms and Conditions are quite clear on the options:

What is more shocking is that this policy statements comes from David Donald, who is the Executive General Manager of Journey Beyond.
With a policy like that, "Journey Beyond" can shut down all efforts to attract oversea's customers.

 

[ainsworth74]

Actually it's even starker in the specific condition on refunds:

13. REFUNDS

Any refunds payable by us under these Booking Conditions will be made as follows: (a) if you paid us directly with a credit or debit card, we will credit the same card with the refund unless you advise us that the card has expired or is no longer active; (b) if you paid us by direct bank transfer, we will pay the refund to a bank account notified by you; and (c) if you booked your Journey through a travel agent, then we will pay the refund to the travel agent.

Again zilch about needing ID of any sort let alone Australian Government certified ID.

 

[185]

I got a refund from them after their Overland MEL-ADL was cancelled due to a freight derailment at Geelong. They were quite nice on the phone too. Refund took three days, so don't know what's gone spectacularly wrong here.

 

[doc7austin]

No travel insurance in the world is going to pay in that case, esp. when the t&c of the train operator are so clear.
I am not making this up. This is the email I have received in the Morning.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
Von: Donald, David
Date: Mi., 30. Juli 2025 um 11:27 Uhr
Subject:
To:

Dear,

On May 13, 2025 I requested that a conversation with myself take place. Further I requested you provide a suitable time for this to occur – to date you have failed to do so. I am finding it difficult to understand why you are reluctant to do so.

Our policy for any refunds, requires an Australian Government certified document to verify a person’s identity, noting the document cannot be altered in any way.

Regards,


David Donald | Executive General Manager
Rail Expeditions • Touring • Cruises • Camps & Lodges • Attractions

M +61 401 704 328 • W journeybeyond.com

A 235 North Terrace, Adelaide, South Australia 5000

I have received this email after I - reluctantly - sent them a copy of my driver's license, because this is what Mr. David Donald wrote me before.

Date: Tue, 13 May 2025 00:49:46 +0000
Subject: FW: Refund request for cancelled train Melbourne-Adelaide
Dear

I would like to bring to your attention that I have reached out to you via email on several occasions – specifically on 27th March, 31st March, 15th April, and 16th April – regarding the need to discuss your matter in person. Unfortunately, I have yet to receive a phone call from you.

To facilitate a timely resolution, I would be more than happy to arrange a phone call at a time that suits you. If you could kindly provide your contact number, along with a suitable time for me to call.

Additionally, please note that as per our company policy, any refund processed by Journey Beyond requires an identity verification. Therefore, I will need a copy of your driver's licence, passport, or other government certified identity documents.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to your response.

Regards,


David Donald | Executive General Manager

David Donald is tweaking his company policy as it suits him - just to avoid paying out money back for a train that was cancelled.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2025 ==

I got a refund from them after their Overland MEL-ADL was cancelled due to a freight derailment at Geelong. They were quite nice on the phone too. Refund took three days, so don't know what's gone spectacularly wrong here.

David Donald appears to be refusing to refund the ticket costs, because I have reported the freight derailment to the Office of the National Rail Safety Regulator (ONRSR). Why did I do it ? I didn't believe the excuse Journey Beyond was given me about the reasons for the train cancellation.

Basically, the staff told me the train had to be cancelled because of a freight derailment. I was suspicious about that. All derailments in Australia need to be reported to the ONRSR. Of course, ONRSR told me they didn't know about that supposed freight derailment.

 

[signed]

Would an entry visa count as an Australian government-certified document?

Those don't exist, the Australian visa system is 100% digital

 

[railfan99]

Journey Beyond is owned by private equity firm Crestview Partners of New York, USA, so why not end an email to its Managing Director if you can work out his email address?

Have a few tries such as firstname.surname@ etc. and eventually one will work.

It was previously owned by Hornblower, operator of some cruise ferries in USA, but Hornblower tried to sell the Journey Beyond business for (US?)$600 million and failed, and then separated JB from Hornblower.

There are many negative reviews on TripAdvisor, especially for 'Indian Pacific': sometimes these mention how paltry the refunds are when (as an example) off train experiences such as at Kalgoorlie, Western Australia or Broken Hill, NSW are cancelled.

You could also complain in writing to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission but it tends to operate on a 'volume' basis: the most complaints it's ever received were about Qantas Airways, so it then took action ona few fronts to try to bring the airline to heel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why not simply send a copy of your passport which you used to travel to Australia? That is one option that is specifically offered to you.

I would also ask why you are declining his offer of a telephone conversation on the matter.

 

[doc7austin]

Journey Beyond is owned by private equity firm Crestview Partners of New York, USA, so why not end an email to its Managing Director if you can work out his email address?

I did already. Crestview doesn't care.

In my eyes David Donald is a bad actor.

 

[Watershed]

I would also ask why you are declining his offer of a telephone conversation on the matter.

It is better to keep things in writing, especially when there is a large amount of money at stake. I absolutely don't blame @doc7austin for wanting to keep it that way.

 

[doc7austin]

Why not simply send a copy of your passport which you used to travel to Australia? That is one option that is specifically offered to you.

No, I did sent to David Donald a copy of my driver's license. That is one option that was specifically offered to me.
David Donald replied to that:
"Our policy for any refunds, requires an Australian Government certified document to verify a person’s identity,"

So how would a copy of my non-Australian passport help me in that matter ? My passport has not been certified by the Australian Government.
Moreover, I already don't feel very comfortable sending my documents to a private company.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2025 ==

It is better to keep things in writing, especially when there is a large amount of money at stake.

Exactly !

I think what happened here is that I caught Journey Beyond in a lie (about the reasons for a train cancellation).

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, I did sent to David Donald a copy of my driver's license. That is one option that was specifically offered to me.
David Donald replied to that:
"Our policy for any refunds, requires an Australian Government certified document to verify a person’s identity,"

So how would a copy of my non-Australian passport help me in that matter ? My passport has not been certified by the Australian Government.

It is perfectly normal for organisations in all countries to accept only domestic driving licences for ID, but to accept all passports that would be valid to enter that country. It's a policy you will often see in the UK, for instance when staying in some hotels (not all require ID to British citizens, but some do).

I think what happened here is that I caught Journey Beyond in a lie (about the reasons for a train cancellation).

I don't see how that is relevant, because a refund is due regardless of the reason.

How on earth has this even got as far as the Executive General Manager? Refunds would normally be completed by customer services.

 

[doc7austin]

How on earth has this even got as far as the Executive General Manager? Refunds would normally be completed by customer services.

On the day of departure the Journey Beyond staff at the station told us that the train was cancelled due to a freight derailment.

I didn't believe that story.

So I have contacted the ONRSR to report the freight derailment. ONRSR on the phone told me there were not aware of a freight derailment. So they asked who told me about that derailment. I gave them the name of the badge that the Journey Beyond staff was wearing at the station.

I assume ONRSR contacted Journey Beyond and this is what triggered the involvement of the Executive General Manager.

And believe that guy David Donald is angry at me.

Normally, the average passenger of a Journey Beyond tourist train would believe any BS-story that they have been told by staff - but not me !

 

[185]

I didn't believe the excuse Journey Beyond was given me about the reasons for the train cancellation.

In my case, two years ago (Nov 22), there was a spectacular freight derailment at Inverleigh, near Geelong resulting in a 50 metre high pyramid of freight containers after a bridge washed away, which in fairness was all over the news. It resulted in a 2 week total abandonment of service, so I did question why they couldn't have terminated and started the train from Ararat (which still had V-line broad gauge trains running) but their boss said the logistics of it were just too much.

 

[doc7austin]

It is perfectly normal for organisations in all countries to accept only domestic driving licences for ID, but to accept all passports that would be valid to enter that country. It's a policy you will often see in the UK, for instance when staying in some hotels (not all require ID to British citizens, but some do).

No hotel in the UK would require you to show a passport, certified by the UK Government. Because that would mean that no foreigners could stay at that hotel.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2025 ==

In my case, two years ago (Nov 22), there was a spectacular freight derailment at Inverleigh, near Geelong resulting in a 50 metre high pyramid of freight containers after a bridge washed away, which in fairness was all over the news. It resulted in a 2 week service total abandonment, so I did question why they couldn't have terminated and started the train from Ararat (which still had V-line broad gauge trains running) but their boss said the logistics of it were just too much.

I have received written information of the ONRSR. There was no freight derailment of that sort.

 

[185]

I have received written information of the ONRSR. There was no freight derailment of that sort.

Wonder if anyone on here could shed any light on this... what was the date of travel and the route?

 

[Bletchleyite]

No hotel in the UK would require you to show a passport, certified by the UK Government. Because that would mean that no foreigners could stay at that hotel.

A passport is surely certified by the Government by virtue of you having entered the country on it and received a stamp for doing so.

I however do not read that in the way you are. My reading is that he's basically saying he meant only an AU driving licence. So send him a copy of your passport! That's the global gold standard for identification (notwithstanding that some US bars won't accept them as they barely ever see them!)

I get why you wouldn't want to send a passport to a random organisation but a train operator is hardly that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2025 ==

On the day of departure the Journey Beyond staff at the station told us that the train was cancelled due to a freight derailment.

I didn't believe that story.

So I have contacted the ONRSR to report the freight derailment. ONRSR on the phone told me there were not aware of a freight derailment. So they asked who told me about that derailment. I gave them the name of the badge that the Journey Beyond staff was wearing at the station.

I assume ONRSR contacted Journey Beyond and this is what triggered the involvement of the Executive General Manager.

And believe that guy David Donald is angry at me.

Normally, the average passenger of a Journey Beyond tourist train would believe any BS-story that they have been told by staff - but not me !

When did you request your refund?

 

[The exile]

No hotel in the UK would require you to show a passport, certified by the UK Government. Because that would mean that no foreigners could stay at that hotel.

An entry stamp is effectively certifying that UK border force was satisfied that the passport was genuine.

 

[doc7austin]

An entry stamp is effectively certifying that UK border force was satisfied that the passport was genuine.

Until 2019 I have always entered the UK with my identity card - and have never received a stamp.
This is besides the point.
Australian Immigration has not stamped my EU passport.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2025 ==

When did you request your refund?

beginning of May 2025

 

[Bletchleyite]

beginning of May 2025

Interesting, as he claims to have tried to contact you a couple of months earlier than that.

 

[doc7austin]

Interesting, as he claims to have tried to contact you a couple of months earlier than that.

Where does it say that ?
Please have a closer look at the dates the two emails were sent out to me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In my case, two years ago (Nov 22), there was a spectacular freight derailment at Inverleigh, near Geelong resulting in a 50 metre high pyramid of freight containers after a bridge washed away, which in fairness was all over the news. It resulted in a 2 week total abandonment of service, so I did question why they couldn't have terminated and started the train from Ararat (which still had V-line broad gauge trains running) but their boss said the logistics of it were just too much.

You could to be fair ask the same question of Avanti terminating at Preston when there's a problem the other side of Carlisle. Sometimes it is a bit much faff to implement shuttles etc, particularly if staff/stock are or would be in the wrong place, particularly where it comes to a service that is purely aimed at tourism.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2025 ==

Where does it say that ?
Please have a closer look at the dates the two emails were sent out to me.

I would like to bring to your attention that I have reached out to you via email on several occasions – specifically on 27th March, 31st March, 15th April, and 16th April – regarding the need to discuss your matter in person. Unfortunately, I have yet to receive a phone call from you.

From the second of those emails.

 

[doc7austin]

Yes, the second quoted email was sent to me on May 13, 2025.

Yes, originally I had the impression (at the end of March 2025) that David Donald would be willing to rebook me for free. I even called him in late March 2025. On the phone David Donald was ranting about why I had contacted ONRSR. Eventually I hang up the phone on him.

In May I had enough with this guy and just wanted my money back.

 

[StephenHunter]

Go to the press, I would say.

 

[doc7austin]

Go to the press, I would say.

I have been fighting with this chap - David Donald - for 4 months now.

His email from today - I had it with him. And I hope Crescent Capital is doing something about him.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have been fighting with this chap - David Donald - for 4 months now.

His email from today - I had it with him. And I hope Crescent Capital is doing something about him.

I'd just send him a copy of your passport and any documents that confirm its validity for entering Australia (I guess it's an ESTA style thing now instead of a stamp?) and request a refund, stating that you will have no further direct correspondence with him provided said refund is forthcoming. Your relationship has clearly completely broken down, and so the best outcome for both parties is a conclusion of negotiations as soon as possible and no further direct interaction.

You clearly want him disciplined/sacked, but you aren't realistically going to achieve that, and so your sole objective should be a full refund and a decision never to give them your business again. Then once you have the refund (and not until), place a truthful and unbiased Tripadvisor report on the matter, only including things you can evidence to a Court if they get nasty.

 

[doc7austin]

As stated by others in the thread. They never had to send in any ID documents to receive a refund for a cancelled train.

So there is something sinister going on, hence, I won't be sending in any more ID documents to Journey Beyond.

David Donald is most likely not going to get sacked. But it is dangerous for him as "Executive General Manager" to put his rants into written form as email. The quoted emails are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As stated by others in the thread. They never had to send in any ID documents to receive a refund for a cancelled train.

So there is something sinister going on, hence, I won't be sending in any more ID documents to Journey Beyond.

What on earth do you think he is going to do with it?

I suspect the reality is that because you took so long to claim a refund (having held out for a rebooking instead) it's no longer possible simply to put it back on your card, so he's going to have to do something else e.g. an international bank transfer, and I don't see that asking for ID for that is unreasonable.

David Donald is most likely not going to get sacked. But it is dangerous for him as "Executive General Manager" to put his rants into written form as email. The quoted emails are just the tip of the iceberg.

You can continue down that line but it would probably result in the only means of obtaining a refund to be to sue. And as you don't live in Oz that's going to be very difficult.

I would pursue an easy path to a refund and only THEN take any other action (I'd suggest Tripadvisor as the best way to actually make a difference there). You are in severe danger of biting off your nose to spite your face, as my Mum used to say to me as a kid, and the outcome of taking that approach is likely to be no refund and no realistic means to obtain one.