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Arriva (Beds, Bucks, Herts)

Voyager 2953

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London59

Take note Arriva this is how you execute service enhancements. How they have grown the Wycombe network is a far cry from the blow-up network that was promised us.
 
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arrivamatt

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The X1 is apparently moving from Milton Keynes to Luton come September and a whole host of changes are expected.

Over the past year since launch, we’ve learned a great deal from operating the route. The team in Milton Keynes has delivered the service with real pride and professionalism — the service delivery has been consistently excellent, and we’re grateful for the commitment shown in launching and running this brand-new route.

We've also learned more about customer travel patterns and demand in that time. The flow of journeys and broader operational logic points towards aligning the X1 with our Luton-based coach operation. There are synergies with our existing Greenline services, and this change allows for greater efficiency and resource sharing. From September, the X1 will be operated from Luton, using three high-spec Mercedes Tourismos under a revised route and timetable — ensuring we continue to offer a premium experience for customers. We’ll be sharing full details very soon. The existing fleet will be relocated elsewhere in the Midlands.

The 1 does not need deckers in my opinion, although Arriva say it does. Every time it goes past my work the deckers are always empty and this is at peak evening rush hour times! They definitely are better on the 321 for the capacity but St Albans always seems to curse the 321 as practically every decker Luton has or had on the 321 has broken down there at least once before!

Just to clarify, it’s not actually Arriva dictating the use of double deckers on the 1 — in this case, it’s more down to mother nature! Some pending tree cutting along the 321 route has temporarily prevented double deckers being used there safely, so they’ve been allocated to route 1 in the meantime which operates on standalone bus diagrams, making it ideal for double decker use — there are no low bridges to navigate, which avoids the risk of clearance issues. While some off-peak trips may appear quiet, usage patterns across the full day and route still justify the capacity, especially during school flows and at peak times.

We agree that double deckers are better suited to the 321 long-term, and once the necessary clearance work is complete, we aim to review and rebalance vehicle allocations accordingly in line with a timetable enhancement from 31 August.

Take note Arriva this is how you execute service enhancements. How they have grown the Wycombe network is a far cry from the blow-up network that was promised us.

If we’re taking notes from the rather cynical tone above, if comparing approach by each operator, it's important to recognise that parts of the network previously run by Arriva reflect adjustments rather than outright growth. For example, the 33 reduces to every 20 minutes on Saturdays, and there are fewer journeys on the 850 in response to changing demand.

That’s not a criticism — far from it. I genuinely admire and share the approach of trying new things, testing frequency increases to stimulate demand, and then refining based on what the market tells you. The coordination between High Wycombe and Beaconsfield is really smart, and much of the progress made has come from consolidating resources into one committed operator that is clearly focused on encouraging public transport use.

Let’s also not forget that many frequencies introduced during Arriva’s time have been retained — the 10 improved to every 20 minutes, and the 30 continues this; the 2/12 and 32 improved to every 15 minutes, which remains; and the 11/31 went from hourly to every 30 minutes and are still running at that frequency. Long may it continue; the team are clearly making a great effort carrying the mantle of customer growth that we experienced. Many of the upcoming changes reflect a continuation of the timetable refinement process originally kick-started by Arriva, aimed at delivering punctual services in a challenging operating environment — and it’s genuinely impressive that this continues.

It’s an admirable effort and I’m sure we all wish Carousel every success but maybe it’s time to let go of the finger-pointing. Our focus in Beds & Bucks are improving our network, as demonstrated with new routes, the latest frequency enhancements such as those just delivered on the Luton busway, and investing in brand new vehicles. We know very well how to executive service enhancements; we've moved on - perhaps it's time you do too.
 

lightning76

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Leighton Buzzard
Just to clarify, it’s not actually Arriva dictating the use of double deckers on the 1 — in this case, it’s more down to mother nature! Some pending tree cutting along the 321 route has temporarily prevented double deckers being used there safely, so they’ve been allocated to route 1 in the meantime which operates on standalone bus diagrams, making it ideal for double decker use — there are no low bridges to navigate, which avoids the risk of clearance issues. While some off-peak trips may appear quiet, usage patterns across the full day and route still justify the capacity, especially during school flows and at peak times.

We agree that double deckers are better suited to the 321 long-term, and once the necessary clearance work is complete, we aim to review and rebalance vehicle allocations accordingly in line with a timetable enhancement from 31 August.

I did notice one of the ex-Leighton E200s on the 321 last Sunday evening, hopefully this isn't a sign of things to come!

While driving through Kent over the last couple of days, I was struck by the number of modern MMCs running round carrying few passengers. I know Kent has an individual education system which means a heavy school traffic, but I should have thought that the Shires rather superannuated deckers would be better off there for school traffic in exchange for some rather more modern vehicles to give a boost to the 321 etc. I used to work for Stagecoach West which has something of a track record in fleet investment to drive patronage on core interurban routes, and whilst the upcoming frequency increase on the 321 is welcome, I can't help feeling that it is a bit of a lost opportunity with the current fleet.

Otherwise I agree with the positive tone of your post and wish you well.
 

duncombec

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While driving through Kent over the last couple of days, I was struck by the number of modern MMCs running round carrying few passengers. I know Kent has an individual education system which means a heavy school traffic, but I should have thought that the Shires rather superannuated deckers would be better off there for school traffic in exchange for some rather more modern vehicles to give a boost to the 321 etc. I used to work for Stagecoach West which has something of a track record in fleet investment to drive patronage on core interurban routes, and whilst the upcoming frequency increase on the 321 is welcome, I can't help feeling that it is a bit of a lost opportunity with the current fleet.
I'm not really sure a warm July is quite the right time to be determining passenger numbers, which are generally lower anyway because of reduced schools traffic (year 11s and year 13s no longer at school, year 12s possibly still on study leave), and some potential passengers (especially passholders) are staying in the cool.

The MMCs are based in Maidstone (-66- plate, where they were swapped out of Southend for some -61- plate VDL DB300s, believed to be for book value/depot profitability reasons), and Gillingham (-74- plate), where they allowed the previous batch of second-hand -16- plates from Leicester to replace even older vehicles in the North East, and indirectly replace our even older than that vehicles. The Shires' deckers may be "superannuated", but Tunbridge Wells has what is believed to be the oldest 'decker in service in Arriva, and we still have 4 -04- registered Volvo B7TLs (new in 2004), including one recently moved from Luton to replace said oldest 'decker. Compared to those, the Shires fleet is positively modern!

Whilst there are invariably some services that are heavily peak dependent (and for what it's worth, Kent is no more "individual" than Beds, Bucks and Herts, all of which also have grammar schools - just that Kent uses a significantly higher number of public services to combine peak flows rather than school coaches), quite a number of our double-deck services do well enough that would require a standing load on a single-deck, even if not a full double-deck load. Of course, having double-decks also allows everyone to get a seat when a driver or vehicle shortage cancels the service in front...
 

Haywain

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The existing fleet will be relocated elsewhere in the Midlands.
I hope they’ll be warned about the state of the seats! Otherwise, this sounds like good news about changes to the X1. I’m hoping it can find a quicker way out of the MK conurbation.
 

DarloRich

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Fenny Stratford
The Arriva buses in MK are so grotty, horrible and dirty inside and out - We even have one in Southend transport colours knocking about. Seems to be stalking me on route 6!
 

GatwickDepress

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Leeds
The Arriva buses in MK are so grotty, horrible and dirty inside and out - We even have one in Southend transport colours knocking about. Seems to be stalking me on route 6!
GN07 AVC. New to Southend in 2007, which makes it old enough to drink now!

Pretty sure it was intended as a spares donor when it was sent over, but MK is like a bus purgatory at this point.

If only Arriva hadn't pulled out of that 60 new electric bus ZEBRA funding consortium.
 
Joined
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GN07 AVC. New to Southend in 2007, which makes it old enough to drink now!

Pretty sure it was intended as a spares donor when it was sent over, but MK is like a bus purgatory at this point.

If only Arriva hadn't pulled out of that 60 new electric bus ZEBRA funding consortium.
Is it not an ex-Fastrack vehicle?
 

Foxhound87

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Earth
GN07 AVC. New to Southend in 2007, which makes it old enough to drink now!

Pretty sure it was intended as a spares donor when it was sent over, but MK is like a bus purgatory at this point.

If only Arriva hadn't pulled out of that 60 new electric bus ZEBRA funding consortium.
They partnered with a lot of different local authorities to submit a EOIs, not all of them stacked up when they came to do the full business case.

I suspect the ridiculous consortium concocted by ARUP probably put the kybosh on this one, leasing vehicles at a greater whole-life cost than outright purchase being a red line for DB.

Perhaps new or newer buses might be more plentiful with the change in ownership, they certainly seem to be investing in Luton and Leicester as well as buying mid-life used for some depots too.
 

Simon75

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Perhaps new or newer buses might be more plentiful with the change in ownership, they certainly seem to be investing in Luton and Leicester as well as buying mid-life used for some depots too.
Maybe Maybe not, but services seem to have improved in the last few years,possibly because Aylesbury and High Wycombe closed, they could invest more in the profitable areas ie Luton and Milton Keynes
 

Voyager 2953

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Maybe Maybe not, but services seem to have improved in the last few years,possibly because Aylesbury and High Wycombe closed, they could invest more in the profitable areas ie Luton and Milton Keynes

There has been little to no investment at Milton Keynes, it’s an awfully run depot with a plethora of issues and constant constant changes that irritate staff and the local communities that depend on these services. I’m sure the King will disagree and use his usual word salad to paint a different picture but the truth is contrary. Luckily it looks as if the people of Milton Keynes will not have to put up with Arriva for much longer…make of that what you will.
 

Simon75

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There has been little to no investment at Milton Keynes, it’s an awfully run depot with a plethora of issues and constant constant changes that irritate staff and the local communities that depend on these services. I’m sure the King will disagree and use his usual word salad to paint a different picture but the truth is contrary. Luckily it looks as if the people of Milton Keynes will not have to put up with Arriva for much longer…make of that what you will.
Doesn't Milton Keynes have 2 depots? Also what's happening there ?
 

Voyager 2953

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I really hope the next round of route changes prove profitable for the company or some serious questions will need to be answered regarding the routes and their management.

Really annoying that as one gets used to a route then it changes; this isn’t stable and doesn’t make one want to use public transport. Arriva are often the topic of discussion on public forums around Milton Keynes and none of it is ever positive.

The X1 will more than likely refer back to its old routing via Mount Farm or possibly via Fenny Stratford omitting Bletchley which was a stupid addition in the first place. It is to apparently use 7203-7205 which are on loan to North Wales which is a definite upgrade but with the MK1s due to use the busway from September to what avail is this?
 

aron2smith

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There has been little to no investment at Milton Keynes, it’s an awfully run depot with a plethora of issues and constant constant changes that irritate staff and the local communities that depend on these services. I’m sure the King will disagree and use his usual word salad to paint a different picture but the truth is contrary. Luckily it looks as if the people of Milton Keynes will not have to put up with Arriva for much longer…make of that what you will.
I feel the same in Lea Valley if I'm honest. Changes are less frequent, but how can a bus that is supposedly every 15 minutes on 1 route and every 20 minutes on the other be allowed to bunch up? This leaves huge gaps in the schedule, and the unreliability is really off-putting and makes it very difficult to connect to trains or other buses. We deserve a quality local operator who cares about the areas they serve.

All it's been in recent years is managed decline, as the council seems to have no interest in subsidising late evening services, so they don't really run!

I only ever used a bus in MK once, never again! Extremely overcrowded as single deckers were put on a busy main route, very late and not necessarily Arriva's fault, but some of the most confusing bus stops I've ever seen. A bit like the bus is an afterthought there altogether, regardless of who runs it.

Moderator note: the municipal bus company proposal, and associated discussion, has been moved to the following thread:

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Edvid

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2,471
Just had a look on GOV.UK (Vehicle Operator Licensing) and funnily enough the 31 August variations were received today. In addition there's a new X14 registration (MK-Aylesbury) without reference to Leighton Buzzard, which suggests a similar route to the Red Rose 100.
 

Voyager 2953

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119
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London59
Just had a look on GOV.UK (Vehicle Operator Licensing) and funnily enough the 31 August variations were received today. In addition there's a new X14 registration (MK-Aylesbury) without reference to Leighton Buzzard, which suggests a similar route to the Red Rose 100.


Indeed; how does one find these registrations as I’m sure there should be a few more.
 
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espicer

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12 Jun 2024
Messages
64
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Luton
Over the past year since launch, we’ve learned a great deal from operating the route. The team in Milton Keynes has delivered the service with real pride and professionalism — the service delivery has been consistently excellent, and we’re grateful for the commitment shown in launching and running this brand-new route.

We've also learned more about customer travel patterns and demand in that time. The flow of journeys and broader operational logic points towards aligning the X1 with our Luton-based coach operation. There are synergies with our existing Greenline services, and this change allows for greater efficiency and resource sharing. From September, the X1 will be operated from Luton, using three high-spec Mercedes Tourismos under a revised route and timetable — ensuring we continue to offer a premium experience for customers. We’ll be sharing full details very soon. The existing fleet will be relocated elsewhere in the Midlands.

Just to clarify, it’s not actually Arriva dictating the use of double deckers on the 1 — in this case, it’s more down to mother nature! Some pending tree cutting along the 321 route has temporarily prevented double deckers being used there safely, so they’ve been allocated to route 1 in the meantime which operates on standalone bus diagrams, making it ideal for double decker use — there are no low bridges to navigate, which avoids the risk of clearance issues. While some off-peak trips may appear quiet, usage patterns across the full day and route still justify the capacity, especially during school flows and at peak times.

We agree that double deckers are better suited to the 321 long-term, and once the necessary clearance work is complete, we aim to review and rebalance vehicle allocations accordingly in line with a timetable enhancement from 31 August.
Looking forward to finally going on a Tourismo then as I always prefer the train to London! MK have run the route well, just the coaches seem to be replaced by Pulsars on some days!

That makes sense about the deckers, we don't need a tree strike! Hopefully those trees get cut down soon.
I did notice one of the ex-Leighton E200s on the 321 last Sunday evening, hopefully this isn't a sign of things to come!

While driving through Kent over the last couple of days, I was struck by the number of modern MMCs running round carrying few passengers. I know Kent has an individual education system which means a heavy school traffic, but I should have thought that the Shires rather superannuated deckers would be better off there for school traffic in exchange for some rather more modern vehicles to give a boost to the 321 etc.
I think the ex Leighton E200MMC on the 321 was just a one off thing, they are here for our local routes that have some narrow roads on them such as the 13 and 14. Very nice buses, glad we have them as our WFs are slowly phasing out to the Midlands.

I don't see us in Luton getting deckers any time soon though seeing as we just recently received the Olympuses, would love to see newer deckers though but at least we have some lovely brand new Evoras.
Volvo B7TLs (new in 2004), including one recently moved from Luton to replace said oldest 'decker. Compared to those, the Shires fleet is positively modern!
That's 6449, one of our best deckers in my opinion. That's supposed to be replacing a Gemini that has been withdrawn apparently, but LJ51 DHN has recently been withdrawn too. Either way, it is going to Tunbridge Wells as far as I know. I'll be taking a trip down there to have another ride on it as I couldn't before it got suddenly withdrawn here.
GN07 AVC. New to Southend in 2007, which makes it old enough to drink now!

Pretty sure it was intended as a spares donor when it was sent over, but MK is like a bus purgatory at this point.
My favourite bus in MK, love how loud it is! Yeah it was supposed to transfer for a short time but that was a while ago! Still got a lot of power left in it.
The X1 will more than likely refer back to its old routing via Mount Farm or possibly via Fenny Stratford omitting Bletchley which was a stupid addition in the first place. It is to apparently use 7203-7205 which are on loan to North Wales which is a definite upgrade but with the MK1s due to use the busway from September to what avail is this?
I hope the X1 goes back to its old routing, I found it much more quicker than what it is now. And yes the MK1 will be using the Busway from 31 August, I believe it is just to avoid the traffic on Hatters Way so it will only be on it briefly.
Just had a look on GOV.UK (Vehicle Operator Licensing) and funnily enough the 31 August variations were received today. In addition there's a new X14 registration (MK-Aylesbury) without reference to Leighton Buzzard, which suggests a similar route to the Red Rose 100.
Interesting, I hope it is an express route and not one that is express but still goes to every village and town! I hate having to travel between Aylesbury and MK because it takes so long, even I get uncomfortable on the 100!
 
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Voyager 2953

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6 Dec 2023
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119
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London59
Looks like the X4 will now run from Aylesbury to Leighton Buzzard via Heath and Reach whilst this new X14 will compete directly with the 100. Will be interesting to see how this one plays out.


While the X6 looks to to be going direct via the A5 to compete with the X5 to Buckingham. I wonder how Stagecoach will react to this.
 

sonic2009

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19 Jan 2010
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Crewe
Does anyone know how much the single fare is on the 724 from Watford to Heathrow?

Looking at it possibly in October coming from Crewe-Watford by train and then either the Rail-Air or the 724.

I wasn't sure if the service came under the £3 single fare cap.
 

A S Leib

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9 Sep 2018
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3,240
Does anyone know how much the single fare is on the 724 from Watford to Heathrow?

Looking at it possibly in October coming from Crewe-Watford by train and then either the Rail-Air or the 724.

I wasn't sure if the service came under the £3 single fare cap.
The Arriva website's planner gives £3 for Watford Junction to Heathrow Central bus terminal ("Adult Single 724 - Harlow to London Heathrow Airport").
 

PeterC

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29 Sep 2014
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Does anyone know how much the single fare is on the 724 from Watford to Heathrow?

Looking at it possibly in October coming from Crewe-Watford by train and then either the Rail-Air or the 724.

I wasn't sure if the service came under the £3 single fare cap.
ENCTS cards are also accepted subject to the standard restrictions.
 

MKBE

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18 Jul 2023
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Milton Keynes
Looks like the X4 will now run from Aylesbury to Leighton Buzzard via Heath and Reach whilst this new X14 will compete directly with the 100. Will be interesting to see how this one plays out.


While the X6 looks to to be going direct via the A5 to compete with the X5 to Buckingham. I wonder how Stagecoach will react to this.
Of what I’m told,
The X6 route will remain mostly the same
The X4 route will remain exactly the same, however will be reduced to one round school trip a day, the X14 will cover Milton Keynes to Leighton during the daytime, passengers from Leighton to Aylesbury for most of the day will have to use the Red Rose Travel 150/165
 

Voyager 2953

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London59
Of what I’m told,
The X6 route will remain mostly the same
The X4 route will remain exactly the same, however will be reduced to one round school trip a day, the X14 will cover Milton Keynes to Leighton during the daytime, passengers from Leighton to Aylesbury for most of the day will have to use the Red Rose Travel 150/165

Who knows; it will probably change again in six months time.
 

markymark2000

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721 withdrawn?
Looks like it as there is another entry a little bit further down which states the 321 will be increased from every 30 to every 15 minutes Monday-Saturday. This would also render the 721 useless.
1753787148580.png
 

aron2smith

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721 withdrawn?
These are the sort of changes that make getting around the county so confusing. Unless it runs on different roads to the 302, why not just call it 302a and make it clear it's a short run. I guess it's bold to assume the 300 is coordinated with the 302 to increase the overall level of service from Hemel to St Albans? Every 15 minutes between the two towns would be a very good thing to advertise.
 

duncombec

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3 Sep 2014
Messages
1,147
These are the sort of changes that make getting around the county so confusing. Unless it runs on different roads to the 302, why not just call it 302a and make it clear it's a short run.
Because a quick look at the current 302 and current 721 (which the 300 is replacing, specifically mentioning King Harry Lane) maps show they go via different ways. So calling it the 302a would be worse.

I guess it's bold to assume the 300 is coordinated with the 302 to increase the overall level of service from Hemel to St Albans? Every 15 minutes between the two towns would be a very good thing to advertise.
The 302 and 721 are already coordinated to run every 15 minutes from Hemel, but cannot do so from St Albans owing to the length of the route (which may also be coordinated with the 321).
 

Haywain

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These are the sort of changes that make getting around the county so confusing. Unless it runs on different roads to the 302, why not just call it 302a and make it clear it's a short run.
So, giving it a different route number won't be confusing? And the 721 (currently) runs from Luton to Hemel so is very different to the 302.
The 302 and 721 are already coordinated to run every 15 minutes from Hemel, but cannot do so from St Albans owing to the length of the route (which may also be coordinated with the 321).
Trying to coordinate the 721 with two different routes is is never going to work well.
 

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