December 2025 Timetable Change - Confirmed changes only

[Avenger20]

Good afternoon all,

This thread is for posting confirmed changes due to take place in the December 2025 Timetable Change.

Please use the speculative thread for your ideas, wants and general speculation keeping this thread free for confirmed changes.

 

[The Planner]

It doesn't get offered for another month.

 

[Avenger20]

It doesn't get offered for another month.

I suspected as much. I was merely pre-emptively starting the thread as we're approaching the May change.

 

[Class 170101]

Won't be viewable on sites like Realt Time Trains until around August / September, lets enjoy the warm weather before we head into the Winetr Timetable

 

[dk1]

I suspected as much. I was merely pre-emptively starting the thread as we're approaching the May change.

Oh my days. Aren't you keen?

 

[liamf656]

Oh my days. Aren't you keen?

There's always one

 

[Class 466]

Big ECML recast is the main thing for Dec 25 - some 91/225 workings on the 'new' Kings Cross to Newcastle services.

 

[Failed Unit]

Big ECML recast is the main thing for Dec 25 - some 91/225 workings on the 'new' Kings Cross to Newcastle services.

It will actually be a big one with the EMR regional recast also happening. Details on this is fairly slim, probably because it is subject to change.

Peterborough - Lincoln Hourly
Lincoln - Doncaster (Frequency unknown)
Lincoln - Crewe - Hourly (Extending existing service from Newark Castle)
Cleethorpes - Matlock (Frequency unknown) hourly to Lincoln praying it is for whole route. According to EMR press releases proving useful connections to LNER at Lincoln
Nottingham - Leicester (Shuttle service)

I suspect it will be August before we see timetables / real frequency proposals.

 

[Tilting007]

Avanti have a step up in Liverpool’s in September, so after May but before the Dec TT change.

 

[swt_passenger]

Big ECML recast is the main thing for Dec 25 - some 91/225 workings on the 'new' Kings Cross to Newcastle services.

I’m fairly sure most of the discussion about the finalised ECML 2025 tt will take place in the existing dedicated thread - or else we’ll get a duplicate but slightly different interpretation in this thread...

 

[A S Leib]

I can't see any significant London Northwestern changes in Real Time Trains, and the minor change I was hoping for (Milton Keynes terminators / Trent Valley stoppers becoming a connection at Milton Keynes Central) hasn't happened.

 

[ainsworth74]

Just a note but please do try and keep discussion of the ECML timetable change to the dedicated thread which can be found here. As it's such a large change it is possible that it would drown out any other changes at other operators if it was mixed into this thread!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't see any significant London Northwestern changes in Real Time Trains, and the minor change I was hoping for (Milton Keynes terminators / Trent Valley stoppers becoming a connection at Milton Keynes Central) hasn't happened.

I'd say that timekeeping on the south WCML is so shoddy that I'd choose a 35 minute connection over a 5 minute one there anyway. You can always use the time to go and get a coffee and an M&S banquet. It might be that they realised that making that connection timed to meet (it's presently 3 minutes) would cost them thousands in Delay Repay every day.

 

[A S Leib]

I'd say that timekeeping on the south WCML is so shoddy that I'd choose a 35 minute connection over a 5 minute one there anyway. You can always use the time to go and get a coffee and an M&S banquet. It might be that they realised that making that connection timed to meet (it's presently 3 minutes) would cost them thousands in Delay Repay every day.

My experience (≠ accurate data) has generally been of the stopper arriving on time and the Trent Valley service leaving a minute or two late, although I suppose having a more reliable arrival time would be preferable if having to choose.

 

[MikeWM]

For GA:

I see that what is currently the 0931 weekday Ely - Stansted service has crept back to 0927, so now too early for Gold Card discounts, which is unfortunate as this was a good alternative to the (currently at 0948) GN service when that goes through its frequent 'unreliable' periods. It wasn't so long ago that this was a 0938 departure, it has been slowly creeping earlier and earlier for the last few years, so not surprised at this but still disappointed.

The two 'missing Liverpool Street trains' in the evening weekday peak at Cambridge North still seem to be present but spread differently, a service leaves at 1811 that has no equivalent currently, but the current 1842 seems to have gone AWOL instead. On the whole that's probably a better distribution than now, but it's a shame they still have the gaps at all (if they haven't managed to fill them now, when will they?)

1H82 (the current 1707 Liverpool Street to Ely) *finally* gets a Cambridge North stop, though it takes 15 minutes longer to complete its journey than today, due to extra stops and a *long* dwell time at Cambridge (11 minutes occupying a through platform in the middle of the evening peak!). This will be useful for me when GN melts down (pretty much every other day or so...) The 4 morning weekday peak Ely to Liverpool Street services seem be retained, but there only appear to be 3 down evening weekday peak services to Ely, down from 4 today - the current 1558 seems to have gone.

Everything seems to stop at Cambridge South, or at least it will when it opens!

And of course, the very useful pre-0900 Sunday morning service from Ely to Peterborough - which so far has only run between May and September - isn't there. I say this every timetable change, but it is a real shame this doesn't run all year around, it's incredibly useful for travelling north/west.

 

[The Planner]

I'd say that timekeeping on the south WCML is so shoddy that I'd choose a 35 minute connection over a 5 minute one there anyway. You can always use the time to go and get a coffee and an M&S banquet. It might be that they realised that making that connection timed to meet (it's presently 3 minutes) would cost them thousands in Delay Repay every day.

That is conspiracy theory territory.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is conspiracy theory territory.

I know the railway has adjusted connections that pretty much always missed in that way in the past. It might be incidental, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to publicise the availability of connections that are just going to miss 99 times out of 100, even if Delay Repay didn't exist.

I suppose never assume conspiracy, as the phrase goes...

Of course anyone on a walk up ticket can make the connection if they are able, but 3 minutes at MKC is VERY tight, I've long thought the standard 5 is a bit short there even with everything on time, as there can be delays at the stairs/lifts as the capacity of them is grossly inadequate for a busy train.

 

[JRT]

That is conspiracy theory territory.

Connection at Smethwick Galton Bridge is possible onto an earlier rather than the official Connection if you know the layout of the station

 

[A S Leib]

Connection at Smethwick Galton Bridge is possible onto an earlier rather than the official Connection if you know the layout of the station

There's probably lots of cases like that, such as with the 31 minute official time between St. Pancras and King's Cross, but that doesn't help much if travelling on advance tickets and running the risk of missing a longer-distance section.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2025 ==

Darlaston and Willenhall only have 1tph in RTT, the Shrewsbury to New Street via Tame Bridge stopper; is the Walsall – Wolverhampton avoiding Birmingham service still supposed to start in the coming timetable period?

 

[Magdalia]

I see that what is currently the 0931 weekday Ely - Stansted service has crept back to 0927, so now too early for Gold Card discounts, which is unfortunate as this was a good alternative to the (currently at 0948) GN service when that goes through its frequent 'unreliable' periods. It wasn't so long ago that this was a 0938 departure, it has been slowly creeping earlier and earlier for the last few years, so not surprised at this but still disappointed.

Running earlier accommodates the Cambridge South call. If it isn't changed from the draft, the Kings Cross train will depart Ely at 0946.

The two 'missing Liverpool Street trains' in the evening weekday peak at Cambridge North still seem to be present but spread differently, a service leaves at 1811 that has no equivalent currently

This is formed off 1624 from Liverpool Street, which seems to be a descendant of the old 1628 Liverpool Street-Cambridge.

Most of the West Anglia Liverpool Street departures have changed. Off peak the Stansted Expresses will depart xx06/21/36/51 with the Hertfords at xx08/38 and the Cambridge Norths at xx24/54. In the peak the Hertfords and Cambridges no longer swap paths: the Stansted Expresses will depart xx05/20/35/50 with the Hertfords at xx10/40 and the slow Cambridges at xx23/53. The fast Cambridges depart xx08/38, giving a Cambridge departure from Liverpool Street every 15 minutes in the evening peak.

it's a shame they still have the gaps at all (if they haven't managed to fill them now, when will they?)

I can't see why the 1554 from Liverpool Street terminates at Cambridge, it seems to have enough time to get to/from Cambridge North, though not Ely. Perhaps that will become apparent when we see the final GN times.

1H82 (the current 1707 Liverpool Street to Ely) *finally* gets a Cambridge North stop, though it takes 15 minutes longer to complete its journey than today, due to extra stops and a *long* dwell time at Cambridge (11 minutes occupying a through platform in the middle of the evening peak!).

he current 1842 seems to have gone AWOL instead.

These are related. There is a booked split at Cambridge, currently the rear half goes to Cambridge North, which is presumably why the front half doesn't stop there. The longer dwell at Cambridge means that the rear half can no longer get to Cambridge North in time to form the up train.

During the split the 1748 Stansted-Norwich overtakes, booked to go via platform 7.

 

[greataj]

Most Stansted Expresses during the off-peak also now seem to be timetabled at 46mins total journey time, the exception being the ones that call additionally at Stansted Mountfitchet - Most are currently timetabled at 47mins.

It's a shame it loses somewhat of it's simplistic clockface timetable with departures from SSD showing as XX:11/XX:28/XX:43/XX:58 as opposed to XX:15/XX:30/XX:45/XX:00, but that's no doubt a small price to pay for other incremental improvements.

Notably there's also an additional Stansted-Norwich run departing at 20:46 on weekdays, making a total of 10tpd.

I suspect when XC comes on line, they will need to adjust their timings slightly as they usually depart SSD currently at XX:27. With the XX:30 Stansted Express now retimed to XX:28, I suspect that will have to depart of couple of minutes earlier as well.

Additionally, Roydon seems to lose it's off-peak calls on the Liverpool St-Cambridge North stoppers (except Sundays when Stratford-Bishop's Stortford doesn't run), I'm guessing to make provision for Cambridge South. Instead it will now see both Stratford-Bishop's Stortford runs stopping there. With that, Waltham Cross calls will be served on the same trains as Northumberland Park, Enfield Lock, Roydon and Harlow Mill. There's no change to the stopping pattern on Liverpool Street-Hertford East services from what I can see.

 

[A S Leib]

I suspect [CrossCountry] will have to depart of couple of minutes earlier as well.

Wouldn't they be doing that to fit in the Cambridge South calls?

 

[greataj]

Irrespective they would have to because of the Stansted Express retime. My understanding was that the reason CrossCountry did not reinstate Audley End calls with the return of the hourly Stansted service back in May was so that the provision was there for Cambridge South, but I stand to be corrected if that's not exactly the case.

 

[paulmch]

There are a handful of XC services that currently leave the airport at XX:21. From a purely selfish point of view I hope they can be timetabled ahead of the all stations stopper from December, as trundling behind it yellow to yellow at 30mph is quite tedious!

 

[A S Leib]

In RTT so far: LNER, Hull Trains, Grand Central, Lumo, Greater Anglia, GWR, West Midlands Trains, EMR, TransPennine Express, Caledonian Sleeper, Southeastern, GWR, London Overground, Merseyrail.

Not in yet: Avanti, Chiltern, c2c, Southern, Gatwick Express, Great Northern, Thameslink, Elizabeth Line, SWR, CrossCountry, TfW Rail, Northern, ScotRail

 

[Class 170101]

And of course, the very useful pre-0900 Sunday morning service from Ely to Peterborough - which so far has only run between May and September - isn't there. I say this every timetable change, but it is a real shame this doesn't run all year around, it's incredibly useful for travelling north/west.

Network Rail Rules of the Route issue. This is the same every year and has been the case for many years.

 

[A S Leib]

There's probably pathing reasons behind it or the decision's been made that Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley and Northampton need the capacity more, but I hadn't noticed that Watford Junction's Northampton / Birmingham service doesn't call at 16:38-18:38, either in the current or December timetable.

 

[99009]

Changes for EMR at Chesterfield I've noticed are as follows:

1. 5L04 05:31 Nottingham - Sheffield, which currently forms 1L04 06:42 Sheffield - Norwich, becomes 5P90 05:34 Nottingham - Sheffield to form 1P90 06:43 Sheffield - Nottingham. The unit off 1P90 then joins onto 1R58 to head north again. Currently 1L04 is booked to depart Nottingham at 07:41, but from the timetable change a new 1L03 Nottingham - Norwich departs at 07:36, exactly the same time as 1P90 is booked to arrive! It means this through service and connection is lost, even though there's 5 minutes of timing allowance in the schedule of the new 1L03 at Tallington. However, on a Saturday, the connection between 1P90 and 1L03 (currently 1L04) remains as 1P90 is booked to arrive at Nottingham at 07:32 because 5P90 and 1P90 run slightly earlier.

2. Saturday's only - 1L18 18:50 Liverpool - Nottingham becomes 1L35 18:51 Liverpool - Sleaford! There's a quiz question for the railway historians, when was there last a direct service to Sleaford from Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield and Chesterfield?

3. Sunday only - the expected new earlier service to Manchester is there. 1M90 08:30 Nottingham - Man Picc which means 1L09, the return working, starts at Man Picc instead of Sheffield. However, unexpectedly, 1M90 calls at Derby, Belper and Dore & Totley NOT via Alfreton! So, another quiz question for the railway historians. When was there last a direct service between Derby and Dore & Totley, Belper and Dore & Totley, Derby and Man Picc and Belper and Man Picc?

 

[LowLevel]

Some of the EMR changes are fairly clever making use of resources - there's a smattering of extra stops at places like Radcliffe and Netherfield as well as Spondon.

Hopefully it is reliable.

 

[London Trains]

I know they aren't on RTT yet, but are any changes confirmed for SWR or Southern (aside from the London Bridge to Eastbourne peak service)?