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Class 458 history

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Bikeman78

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I'm starting a new thread to discuss past class 458 workings. When they were new, I think they worked the following routes.
Waterloo to Reading
Waterloo to Alton
Ascot to Guildford

Is that correct? Did they work along any other other routes, either planned or ad hoc?

When they were converted to five cars, they still ran to Reading, but what other routes did they work?
 
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Islineclear3_1

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I remember their early days in service as 4-JOP - Southern tradition : :D Was 5-JUP ever used? Weird but quite nice looking aesthetically compared to the "ugly ducklings" they resemble now. I only remember them on test runs, Readings and Guildfords but then I only used SWT out of London
 

43096

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I'm starting a new thread to discuss past class 458 workings. When they were new, I think they worked the following routes.
Waterloo to Reading
Waterloo to Alton
Ascot to Guildford

Is that correct? Did they work along any other other routes, either planned or ad hoc?
The very first one I travelled on (way back in August 2001) was on a Waterloo-Guildford working.

They very quickly became predominantly used on Waterloo-Reading (normally in pairs) and Ascot-Guildford (two or three single sets).
When they were converted to five cars, they still ran to Reading, but what other routes did they work?
The 458/5s did not initially run to Reading as the Reading line was later in the 10-car programme. To start with they were on Waterloo-Windsor, Weybridge and Hounslow loop trains. It was only after the 707s were delivered that they really moved over to Reading duties.
 

43096

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I remember their early days in service as 4-JOP - Southern tradition : :D Was 5-JUP ever used? Weird but quite nice looking aesthetically compared to the "ugly ducklings" they resemble now. I only remember them on test runs, Readings and Guildfords but then I only used SWT out of London
The 458/0s were 4-JOP (unofficially for Jump Out and Push when introduced!)
The 458/5s are 5-JUP
The 458/4s are 4-JUP

All have carried those codes on the car end data panels.
 

Boalbads

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I was reading about this online last night since i'm too young to remember the 458/0s, but apparently they occasionally did Woking to Waterloo as well, no idea if it's true but sounds interesting.
 

NSEWonderer

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I was reading about this online last night since i'm too young to remember the 458/0s, but apparently they occasionally did Woking to Waterloo as well, no idea if it's true but sounds interesting.
a 458/5 also did so, some time ago:
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I was reading about this online last night since i'm too young to remember the 458/0s, but apparently they occasionally did Woking to Waterloo as well, no idea if it's true but sounds interesting.
I’ve seen a video from around 2004 of a single 458/0 at Chertsey.

a 458/5 also did so, some time ago:
The 458/5 was less rare, on most Sundays for most of 2014-2024 they would have multiple diagrammed workings to Woking via Chertsey, as the 458/4s do now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

When they were converted to five cars, they still ran to Reading, but what other routes did they work?
Not at first they didn’t. Story time! For many years, and certainly in the years leading up to conversion, the 458/0s were the exclusive stock of the Reading services (and apart from two units on Ascot Guildford with three 450s, that’s all they did), but when they started to get converted in 2013, the Reading services went slowly over to 450s until the final 458/0 went and all were completely 450 from Autumn 2015.

When the 458/5s were introduced in 2014-ish, they went primarily to Windsor, Weybridge, and Hounslow (the loop services were an all day thing back then), marking a first for SWR 10 car services over there. This is largely why they got fitted with a higher density Metro layout with more standing room, and 75mph gearing - because the 458/5s were intended for maximising capacity on Windsor/Weybridge/Hounslow.

Now when the 707s came into service in mid 2017, these really WERE game changers for maximising capacity, and so these were introduced onto the same Windsor/Weybridge/Hounslow services that the 458/5 had been introduced on (and by this point, were dominating, with 450s a rarity), freeing the 458/5s to begin displacing the 450s off the Readings and introduce 10 car operations to these too.

By 2019, the 707s were in full flow (as were the 455+456 combos), and SWR had a largely 10 car railway, with Reading almost exclusively 458/5 pairs, save for I think two 8-450 diagrams.

Some 707s started to be used for Sheppertons, and eventually started to drip off to Southeastern. As this happened, the 458/5s started to return to primarily operating Windsor/Weybridge to prevent the loss of ten carriage services on Metro routes, and thus 450s began to return as the dominant traction on Reading services.

The 458/5s started to disappear for conversion, and while limited ex 460 sets remained unconverted, the Windsor lines lost a couple of their last 458/5 diagrams to Guildford via Epsom and Hampton Court routes (trying to fill the void left by 455+455+456 combos) and the 450s had to compensate for this on the Weybridges and Windsors. 8-455s can’t do Weybridges, and around this time work was done to prevent them stopping at Datchet on Windsors too, so they got priority of the 450s, and 455s began to creep onto Readings.

The return of the 458s, albeit in four car /4 mode, allowed the 450s on Weybridge services to gradually return to Readings, as did 701s and later 458/4s to Windsor, which is why the 455 epidemic is not as bad as it was a year ago. The introduction of 458/4s and then 701s to Reading has now meant the 455s are becoming rarer again.
 
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Big Jumby 74

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Not at first they didn’t. Story time! For many years, and certainly in the years leading up to conversion, the 458/0s were the exclusive stock of the Reading services (and apart from two units on Ascot Guildford with three 450s, that’s all they did), but when they started to get converted in 2013, the Reading services went slowly over to 450s until the final 458/0 went and all were completely 450 from Autumn 2015.

When the 458/5s were introduced in 2014-ish, they went primarily to Windsor, Weybridge, and Hounslow (the loop services were an all day thing back then), marking a first for SWR 10 car services over there. This is largely why they got fitted with a higher density Metro layout with more standing room, and 75mph gearing - because the 458/5s were intended for maximising capacity on Windsor/Weybridge/Hounslow.

Now when the 707s came into service in mid 2017, these really WERE game changers for maximising capacity, and so these were introduced onto the same Windsor/Weybridge/Hounslow services that the 458/5 had been introduced on (and by this point, were dominating, with 450s a rarity), freeing the 458/5s to begin displacing the 450s off the Readings and introduce 10 car operations to these too.

By 2019, the 707s were in full flow (as were the 455+456 combos), and SWR had a largely 10 car railway, with Reading almost exclusively 458/5 pairs, save for I think two 8-450 diagrams.
That is a very fair and accurate account (3 x 8-450 remained on Readings for most of the day-SX). I still have the initial planned diagrams for 458/5 on the inner Windsor area routes, compiled in 2013, and those for initial 707 roll out, compiled in 2015, the latter as you comment allowing 458/5 to transfer on to the Readings. The CWN's for the period give an idea of the transition/time line, although the base plan was a continually changing beast with revised ongoing STP overlays every couple of weeks.
 

Flange Squeal

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From around 2015, a regular 10 car 458/5 diagram saw them working to Alton on weekdays - 2153 Waterloo to Alton, 2316 Alton to Woking and 0040 Woking to Alton. This lasted for a good year or two. They were still running to Alton in a post-Covid world, but I think on a later trip. (2223, 2253 or 2323, I forget which it was!).

In May 2017, 458535 & 458536 unusually worked the 2015 Waterloo to Haslemere, then empties to Farnham Shed. I believe this was essentially doubling up as a stock move to get a pair of 458s to Farnham Shed prior to the Waterloo blockade. Some years later, 458/5s became a regular sight at Haslemere on the 2145 Waterloo to Haslemere, which also then ran empty to Farnham Shed.
 

Big Jumby 74

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From around 2015, a regular 10 car 458/5 diagram saw them working to Alton on weekdays - 2153 Waterloo to Alton
Quite right. It was from December 2015 TT, and was a balancing move in relation to the a.m. 0641 Woking to Waterloo (2F84) that was 10-458 empty from Farnham shed from that date. The reason the 0641 ex Woking became involved was platform capacity at Waterloo - said train arrived (pre Dec 2015 as a 12 car 450) and split for the 0737 to Hounslow (8 450) and 07+40 ECS to Clapham Yard (4 450), and hence to kick off one of the Windsor side diagrams* with a 10-458 (as required by the plan) the 0737* had to remain formed off the 0641. At this point (Dec 2015) the 0737 was also revised to become a full Waterloo-Hounslow-Twickenham (and back to Waterloo) rounder, as part of the overall 458/5 plan.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

In May 2017, 458535 & 458536 unusually worked the 2015 Waterloo to Haslemere
This was never part of the planned 10 car (458 etc) introduction plan, albeit the stock on the 2015 had for years been booked ECS to Farnham shed (12 450), so can only imagine the 458 involvement on this service was, as you surmise, part of eg: Waterloo blockade or some other STP initiative.
 
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Bikeman78

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Not at first they didn’t. Story time! For many years, and certainly in the years leading up to conversion, the 458/0s were the exclusive stock of the Reading services (and apart from two units on Ascot Guildford with three 450s, that’s all they did), but when they started to get converted in 2013, the Reading services went slowly over to 450s until the final 458/0 went and all were completely 450 from Autumn 2015.

When the 458/5s were introduced in 2014-ish, they went primarily to Windsor, Weybridge, and Hounslow (the loop services were an all day thing back then), marking a first for SWR 10 car services over there. This is largely why they got fitted with a higher density Metro layout with more standing room, and 75mph gearing - because the 458/5s were intended for maximising capacity on Windsor/Weybridge/Hounslow.
Thanks. I didn't know, or forgot, that there was a gap in 458 operation to Reading. From roughly 2005 to 2015, Windsor, Weybridge and Hounslow were dominated by class 450s so effectively the classes swapped when the 458/5 were created.

If anyone has any past class 458 diagrams they would be willing to share, that would be great.
 

Big Jumby 74

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From roughly 2005 to 2015, Windsor, Weybridge and Hounslow were dominated by class 450s
Correct, by 450(HC) high capacity, no first class units, a sub class converted from standard 450's designed for the Windsor side suburban routes as listed. When the 458/5 plan was in its infancy, a decision was taken to revert the 450(HC) units to standard format, ie put the first class back, on the basis they (amongst the wider 450 fleet) would in due course be working the Reading line, to be displaced on the inner area Windsor suburban side routes by the 458/5's as they became available.
 

Sad Sprinter

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For most of my years going to school, the 458s were the mainstay of the Reading services. At the very start back in 2006, the 458s seemed to be out of service and spent their time hanging around in Clapham yard. Then eventually they were deployed on the Readings. I first used one accidentally in year 7 sometime, when the platform indicator board erroneously showed it going to Windsor. Cue and impromptu trip to Richmond. 11 years later, I’d be taken that train to commute to Richmond daily.

The 458s were very comfortable I thought, the livery was garish but not entirely awful. It certainly gave the Windsor Lines a more “intercity” feel with dedicated stock on the fastest services.
 

Boalbads

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The 458/5 was less rare, on most Sundays for most of 2014-2024 they would have multiple diagrammed workings to Woking via Chertsey, as the 458/4s do now.
Yeah I used to go on them for fun on Sundays within oyster (Waterloo - Feltham), but I didn't really take that many photos sadly.
 

Flange Squeal

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This was never part of the planned 10 car (458 etc) introduction plan, albeit the stock on the 2015 had for years been booked ECS to Farnham shed (12 450), so can only imagine the 458 involvement on this service was, as you surmise, part of eg: Waterloo blockade or some other STP initiative.
To my knowledge it was an STP for one day only. I’ve checked my notes and it was Friday 4th August 2017 it ran, with the blockade commencing the following day.
 

Big Jumby 74

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At the very start back in 2006, the 458s seemed to be out of service and spent their time hanging around in Clapham yard
That would have been during the run up to the 2007 refranchising. This was the point when the futures of both 442 and 458 were under scrutiny, and the 458's won the day. And NO, I am not going to get in to any discussions about that, others (many) on this site have done that to death, many times, it's history.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

If anyone has any past class 458 diagrams they would be willing to share, that would be great.
Do you have any particular date/day (of the week) or timetable period in mind? I only have a small selection in printed format based around the 458/5's on first entry to service on the Windsor inner area routes. I might be persuaded to compile 458/0 diagrams (on 2Cxx's) using my old CWN's pre 458/5 days, but to do so will take time, and I have a lot of stuff on my plate at present...
 
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Boalbads

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I heard that there were two announcers under the 458/0s (cant remember where I read it but I think it was somewhere on here), Alstom woman and Alstom man, theres a few videos of Alstom man dotted around on youtube but does anyone know if there are any of Alstom woman? Sounds interesting assuming its not just Celia.
 

stadler

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I heard that there were two announcers under the 458/0s (cant remember where I read it but I think it was somewhere on here), Alstom woman and Alstom man, theres a few videos of Alstom man dotted around on youtube but does anyone know if there are any of Alstom woman? Sounds interesting assuming its not just Celia.
I would be very curious to hear her too. I used the 458/0s regularly and i can only remember the male voice. But i remember someone else mentioning a while ago that there was a female before him. So i suspect the female was probably only on the 458/0s for a very brief period right when they were introduced. I would love to hear a recording if anyone has one.
 

Boalbads

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On a different note, I remember seeing a photo of a class 458 (cannot remember which subclass), coupled to a 701 to check it was possible, does anyone have that photo? Just spent a fair bit of time trying to find it, but i'm starting to think that i'm going insane.
 

NSEWonderer

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On a different note, I remember seeing a photo of a class 458 (cannot remember which subclass), coupled to a 701 to check it was possible, does anyone have that photo? Just spent a fair bit of time trying to find it, but i'm starting to think that i'm going insane.

IMG_5902.jpeg
 

Bikeman78

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Do you have any particular date/day (of the week) or timetable period in mind? I only have a small selection in printed format based around the 458/5's on first entry to service on the Windsor inner area routes. I might be persuaded to compile 458/0 diagrams (on 2Cxx's) using my old CWN's pre 458/5 days, but to do so will take time, and I have a lot of stuff on my plate at present...
I'd be interested in 458/5 on weekdays but don't go out of your way if it's going to be time consuming.
 

RacsoMoquette

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I heard that there were two announcers under the 458/0s (cant remember where I read it but I think it was somewhere on here), Alstom woman and Alstom man, theres a few videos of Alstom man dotted around on youtube but does anyone know if there are any of Alstom woman? Sounds interesting assuming its not just Celia.
Didn't the SPT Class 334s originally have a very disjointed and poorly pronouncing DVA nicknamed "Annoying Annie" Apparently it was a generic Alstom DVA.
 

Boalbads

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Didn't the SPT Class 334s originally have a very disjointed and poorly pronouncing DVA nicknamed "Annoying Annie" Apparently it was a generic Alstom DVA.
No idea, never been to scotland nor am I old enough to have experienced that. Might do some looking later to see if I can find any videos/audio recordings.
 

Transilien

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These are the original announcements. I am too young to remember them, does anyone know when they were replaced?
 

Boalbads

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I wonder if that was used on the 458s as well, would be odd to hear a scottish voice in Reading or Weybridge.
 

Big Jumby 74

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A brief time line summary of the planned 458/5 roll out, now just over a decade ago. How time flies! The planning for the 458/5 roll out in a detailed train service manner took several years, the diagrams for these units on their intended inner area Windsor routes various (not Readings) being finalised during 2013. This followed on from what had been a very busy period for those in planning and elsewhere during 2012 (hope I don't need to spell that out :rolleyes: ).

January 2014: A base plan DRAFT CWN showing the planned final train plan (including all 458/5, 10 car 455/456 & 707 on their intended services) and all associated other stock alterations, was issued to those involved with the project and others within the industry who needed to know, so those concerned would have a feel for where the plan was heading, during the (as yet to come) roll out.
Formations concerned as follows;
Readings majority 10 car 458 with 3 x 8 car 450* (* reduced to 2 x 8 car 450 post p.m. peak).
Weybridge/Hounslow rounders - a mix of 5 & 10 car 707 (the term 707 had not been acquired at this date. They were known as DC - Desiro City), a small number of 10 car 458 and a few 8 car 450.
Windsor and Eton's - 3 x 10 car 458 and 2 x 10 car DC/707.

The roll out was originally planned to take place between March 2014 and May 2015 (as far as my input was concerned), and internal documentation relating to same was issued in house to that effect. This timescale slipped, due largely to the corrosion matters found at Doncaster, but I no longer have precise details, so am not going to comment further on that aspect.

May 2015 base plan:
Readings a mix of 8-458 and 8-450.
Weybridge/Hounslow rounders a majority of 450 (both 4 and 8 car) with a few 5 & 10 car 458.
Windsor and Eton's 2 x 10 car 458 and 3 x 8 car 450.

December 2015 base plan:
Readings all 8 car 450 with one exception, a new service, 1935 ex Waterloo formed 5 car 458, returning empty to Waterloo at 21+07.
Weybridge/Hounslow rounders a mix of 10 car 458 and 5 car 458 with a handful of 8 car 450's.
Windsor and Eton's all 10 car 458 except the last two Down services (2258 & 2328 ex Waterloo) that ran as 5 car 458 each, combining at Windsor for the next day's first Windsor departure (0553).

That is how the plan then largely remained until the DRAFT (and subsequently) FINAL issue of the December 2017 base plan (below), which coincided with the gradual roll out of the 707's.
Readings majority 10 car 458, 3 x 8 car 450 and 1 x 5 car 707 (1935 ex Waterloo etc).
Weybridge/Hounslow rounders a majority of 10 or 5 car 707, with a limited number of 10 car 458 and 8 car 450.
Windsor and Eton's 3 x 10 car 458 and 2 x 10 car 707.

In other words the plan as worked up in 2013, came to fruition by the time the 707 roll out had taken place, with a few tweaks no doubt, but essentially as was and hence just a snap shot of how Long Term Planning works. It's not always about May and December alone!

PS (my BOLD): must be remembered that the 458/5 were planned to be introduced in pairs as they were due to replace 8 car trains, and a plan of phased introductions was worked up, in order that all relevant alterations could be published STP with every new pair to service - approximately every two weeks, so for those reading this and having travelled during those times, your experience may not match the base plan details I have listed above.
 
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43096

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A brief time line summary of the planned 458/5 roll out, now just over a decade ago. How time flies! The planning for the 458/5 roll out in a detailed train service manner took several years, the diagrams for these units on their intended inner area Windsor routes various (not Readings) being finalised during 2013. This followed on from what had been a very busy period for those in planning and elsewhere during 2012 (hope I don't need to spell that out :rolleyes: ).

January 2014: A base plan DRAFT CWN showing the planned final train plan (including all 458/5, 10 car 455/456 & 707 on their intended services) and all associated other stock alterations, was issued to those involved with the project and others within the industry who needed to know, so those concerned would have a feel for where the plan was heading, during the (as yet to come) roll out.
Formations concerned as follows;
Readings majority 10 car 458 with 3 x 8 car 450* (* reduced to 2 x 8 car 450 post p.m. peak).
Weybridge/Hounslow rounders - a mix of 5 & 10 car 707 (the term 707 had not been acquired at this date. They were known as DC - Desiro City), a small number of 10 car 458 and a few 8 car 450.
Windsor and Eton's - 3 x 10 car 458 and 2 x 10 car DC/707.

The roll out was originally planned to take place between March 2014 and May 2015 (as far as my input was concerned), and internal documentation relating to same was issued in house to that effect. This timescale slipped, due largely to the corrosion matters found at Doncaster, but I no longer have precise details, so am not going to comment further on that aspect.

May 2015 base plan:
Readings a mix of 8-458 and 8-450.
Weybridge/Hounslow rounders a majority of 450 (both 4 and 8 car) with a few 5 & 10 car 458.
Windsor and Eton's 2 x 10 car 458 and 3 x 8 car 450.

December 2015 base plan:
Readings all 8 car 450 with one exception, a new service, 1935 ex Waterloo formed 5 car 458, returning empty to Waterloo at 21+07.
Weybridge/Hounslow rounders a mix of 10 car 458 and 5 car 458 with a handful of 8 car 450's.
Windsor and Eton's all 10 car 458 except the last two Down services (2258 & 2328 ex Waterloo) that ran as 5 car 458 each, combining at Windsor for the next day's first Windsor departure (0553).

That is how the plan then largely remained until the DRAFT (and subsequently) FINAL issue of the December 2017 base plan (below), which coincided with the gradual roll out of the 707's.
Readings majority 10 car 458, 3 x 8 car 450 and 1 x 5 car 707 (1935 ex Waterloo etc).
Weybridge/Hounslow rounders a majority of 10 or 5 car 707, with a limited number of 10 car 458 and 8 car 450.
Windsor and Eton's 3 x 10 car 458 and 2 x 10 car 707.

In other words the plan as worked up in 2013, came to fruition by the time the 707 roll out had taken place, with a few tweaks no doubt, but essentially as was and hence just a snap shot of how Long Term Planning works. It's not always about May and December alone!

PS (my BOLD): must be remembered that the 458/5 were planned to be introduced in pairs as they were due to replace 8 car trains, and a plan of phased introductions was worked up, in order that all relevant alterations could be published STP with every new pair to service - approximately every two weeks, so for those reading this and having travelled during those times, your experience may not match the base plan details I have listed above.
Deliveries of the 458/5s were severely delayed - Alstom (as prime contractor) didn't exactly cover themselves in glory. The planned and actual deliveries were:

SetDelivery DueDelivery ActualDelay in Weeks
Unit 1458534
May-13​
Sep-13​
16​
Unit 2458531
May-13​
Oct-13​
21​
Unit 3458533
Jun-13​
Jan-14​
29​
Unit 4458535
Jun-13​
Mar-14​
38​
Unit 5458502
Jul-13​
Jul-14​
49​
Unit 6458532
Jul-13​
Jul-14​
52​
Unit 7458501
Jul-13​
Aug-14​
54​
Unit 8458503
Jul-13​
Sep-14​
59​
Unit 9458504
Aug-13​
Oct-14​
59​
Unit 10458536
Aug-13​
Nov-14​
63​
Unit 11458530
Sep-13​
Dec-14​
62​
Unit 12458520
Sep-13​
Jan-15​
66​
Unit 13458505
Oct-13​
Feb-15​
67​
Unit 14458510
Oct-13​
Mar-15​
72​
Unit 15458511
Oct-13​
Mar-15​
74​
Unit 16458524
Oct-13​
Apr-15​
76​
Unit 17458525
Nov-13​
Apr-15​
73​
Unit 18458527
Nov-13​
May-15​
77​
Unit 19458518
Nov-13​
Jun-15​
82​
Unit 20458526
Nov-13​
Jul-15​
83​
Unit 21458509
Dec-13​
Jul-15​
80​
Unit 22458519
Dec-13​
Jul-15​
82​
Unit 23458529
Jan-14​
Aug-15​
82​
Unit 24458508
Jan-14​
Sep-15​
85​
Unit 25458515
Feb-14​
Sep-15​
82​
Unit 26458522
Feb-14​
Oct-15​
86​
Unit 27458523
Mar-14​
Nov-15​
83​
Unit 28458512
Mar-14​
Nov-15​
83​
Unit 29458513
Mar-14​
Nov-15​
86​
Unit 30458514
Mar-14​
Dec-15​
88​
Unit 31458506
Apr-14​
Dec-15​
85​
Unit 32458517
Apr-14​
Dec-15​
86​
Unit 33458528
May-14​
Jan-16​
84​
Unit 34458507
May-14​
Jan-16​
86​
Unit 35458521
Jun-14​
Feb-16​
85​
Unit 36458516
Jun-14​
Mar-16​
91​
 
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