Liverpool City Region Glider

[TheGrandWazoo]

FWIW, I too sampled the Glider just a few weeks ago. I have to agree with @padbus as to the experience. The vehicles are not that different to a standard bendi internally but externally, they are certainly distinctive. Whilst I understand the attraction to suggest they are like the Wright Streetcar (ftr), they feel much more conventional and lighter internally. I don't know how the respective capacities measure up but the Glider's like a better internal design.

As for whether you should have a tram or a Glider type bus. Well, if you're looking to set up a new tramline in Liverpool, you'll be waiting for a lot of money to do that. I often thought that instead of HS2, we'd have been better off with more trams in more cities but there you are. As it is, Belfast has gone for Glider and with extensive bus priority which, of course, benefits more than just Glider. So if this is a means of getting better bus priority... so be it. I too had my ticket checked by two nice gents. As regards the off repeated chat on off bus ticketing... it's strange to see such a level of relatively old tech on a roadside.

 

[dm1]

To me it seems like this is largely an attempt to make bendy buses palatable and attractive to the public with which they are typically somewhat contraversial in the UK (see London), despite them being bog standard all over the continent.

If it means somewhere gets a properly operated and planned bus service with proper priority and higher average speeds that become possible when the driver isn't stopping every 200m to sell tickets for minutes at a time then why not. If they somehow manage to change the highway code to enable buses to use tram-style signals (allowing bus priority to be implemented in a much more space-efficient way) then even better.

 

[johncrossley]

Surely they should just look for an articulated bus that is the best on price. Are these ‘trams’ around the same price, or a lot more expensive?

Is there much choice available in right-hand drive? There are several excellent models used in neighbouring countries, for example the VDL Citea SLFA-181 Electric or the Hess lighTram, but are they available in right-hand drive?

 

[Citistar]

Purely my opinion but having observed many other transport systems, most of these arguments about the style of vehicles are just noise. The key issue in urban areas is dwell times at bus stops and these are not going to be resolved without roadside/phone/card ticketing becoming the norm. Existing UK tap on/tap off systems are frustratingly slow and obstructive to loading/unloading passengers, we need to get away from revenue control at point of boarding entirely if we're going to improve the overall journey time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Existing UK tap on/tap off systems are frustratingly slow and obstructive to loading/unloading passengers, we need to get away from revenue control at point of boarding entirely if we're going to improve the overall journey time.

They aren't at all. London buses now anecdotally feel like they move faster (in dwell terms) than they did in Routemaster days.

 

[markymark2000]

They aren't at all. London buses now anecdotally feel like they move faster (in dwell terms) than they did in Routemaster days.

You're not comparing apples with apples there. If London had to rely on Ticketers tap on system (which is what 95% of operators are using), journey times would rise significantly versus the current Wayfarer system.

I also note Citistar specifically stated tap on/tap off which again is much slower. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's the tap off that significantly slows things down as people fumble for cards to tap off and the. Use Ticketers dreadfully slow tap off reader.


In my experience, National Express West Midlands has the best system for urban areas and it does feel like you are in London with the speed. The Init machines are fast, almost no one asks for tickets or interacts with the driver. But even when someone does ask for a ticket (ie short hop, child fare, multi modal ticket) it's still quick and the speed of others just tapping on, counteracts the fact one transaction is slightly slower. It seems to be a best of both worlds though. Quick tap on, but also permits some ticket sales without a huge time penalty.

 

[johncrossley]

The Ticketer tap off devices are very poor compared to ones abroad. In the Netherlands, for example, there are usually multiple exit readers and you can tap off any time after the previous stop.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You're not comparing apples with apples there. If London had to rely on Ticketers tap on system (which is what 95% of operators are using), journey times would rise significantly versus the current Wayfarer system.

While I'm not known for thinking Ticketer is wonderful (though it has led a few worthwhile improvements, namely card acceptance, TOTO outside London and GPS tracking) I don't agree at all. The main issue with Ticketer being slow relates to non-TOTO card transactions where touching the card before the transaction has been rung up causes issues. If you just board and tap it takes no longer than the London version, particularly with the stupid bits of COVID era plastic over the machines.

I also note Citistar specifically stated tap on/tap off which again is much slower. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's the tap off that significantly slows things down as people fumble for cards to tap off and the. Use Ticketers dreadfully slow tap off reader.

I don't find it slow at all, though it can be improved with dual (or triple) door as these buses have, because those alighting don't obstruct those boarding. Though this isn't really an issue on traditional "suburb to bus station" routes where at any given stop people will only be boarding OR alighting.

In my experience, National Express West Midlands has the best system for urban areas and it does feel like you are in London with the speed. The Init machines are fast, almost no one asks for tickets or interacts with the driver. But even when someone does ask for a ticket (ie short hop, child fare, multi modal ticket) it's still quick and the speed of others just tapping on, counteracts the fact one transaction is slightly slower. It seems to be a best of both worlds though. Quick tap on, but also permits some ticket sales without a huge time penalty.

I'm not saying Ticketer can't be improved - it can - but TOTO will speed things up either way. User discipline (boarding with card ready in hand or phone already double tapped if not in transit mode) is fairly key to be honest, and requires good publicity - aside from the sort of person who gets taken by surprise when they have to pay for their supermarket shopping and only then starts rifling through their bag who will never be taught, London boarding discipline these days is quite good.

 

[johncrossley]

Presumably Liverpool is going for a flat fare system, so they don't need to worry about exit readers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presumably Liverpool is going for a flat fare system, so they don't need to worry about exit readers.

Likely on the regular bus system, but they do seem to be trying hard to market this bendy bus as some sort of pseudo tram so who knows?

I'd suggest they take lessons from Manchester on how well calling their actual trams "light rail vehicles" went before they start doling out the hand-held manual excavating devices.

 

[route101]

The Ticketer tap off devices are very poor compared to ones abroad. In the Netherlands, for example, there are usually multiple exit readers and you can tap off any time after the previous stop.

Yeah, often don't work too. Always a rush getting off the bus too so I forget to tap off often.

 

[johncrossley]

Sometimes you have to tap off at the driver's machine because the exit reader isn't working, but it is unclear it isn't working until you try it. They could at least put a sign on it telling you to use the driver's machine.

This is yet another example of ignorance of what happens outside the UK. Anyone with experience of (for example) Dutch readers, would realise how substandard the Ticketer readers are and wouldn't buy them.

 

[Energy]

In my experience, National Express West Midlands has the best system for urban areas and it does feel like you are in London with the speed. The Init machines are fast, almost no one asks for tickets or interacts with the driver. But even when someone does ask for a ticket (ie short hop, child fare, multi modal ticket) it's still quick and the speed of others just tapping on, counteracts the fact one transaction is slightly slower. It seems to be a best of both worlds though. Quick tap on, but also permits some ticket sales without a huge time penalty.

The NXWM (and NX Coventry) init setup works extremely well. My experiences mirror yours with quick boarding times and few people needing to interact with the driver. They also have an app to buy other fares, such as student tickets, though being able to link student/child status to a debit card would be useful.

Merseyrail already uses the init hardware as tap-and-go validators.

The contactless setup on Stagecoach Midlands is comparatively worse. It isn't tap and go, it's just their VIX machines fitted with a contactless reader. As such, the driver still needs to input the type of ticket first.

 

[stephen rp]

According to the Liverpool Echo the Liverpool City Region is to get Glider bus services akin to Belfast's.

In their article it even shows a Translink Glider with Metro branding (still with the Translink logo though) and no change inside:

View attachment 181424

View attachment 181425

The services are planned to run on the Liverpool Airport to City route. Major infrastructure would be needed I think though as the Glider services use a "platform" as they are more akin to a tram.

Their article says:

Full article available here

So long as no-one uses the expression "like a tram on wheels", apparently used by Translink in the original 2017 PR release, and still being quoted.