All of the remaining first batch BZLs, minus 750, are showing as taxed for August. Only 732, 735 and 746 have to appear at Seafield. Second batch vehicles SF25 YNC, YND and YNG are also taxed and at Volvo Cardonald. SF25 YNL has also been seen at Volvo.
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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)
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All fair, like I said weren't fully thought through ideas!
The lack of resale potential and the fact they've got 3 to 4 years left on the books means this makes sense with the 7900s.
Next time I'm on a Eclipse 3 I'm going to check the seating but I think you'd get another 6 in minimum, maybe more.
LothianBusesPh
Member
I use them daily. I'd say it's hit or miss depending on the bus. Antisocial behaviour at the rear of the buses don't help rear seats, especially the seat backs which is unfortunately common. However, despite this I would still say they don't feel as old as they are - minus the cracking above the panels in and around the cab.
CSB0241
Member
Can confirm, Newhouse Avenue doesn’t go under the East Coast Mainline so it also has to go under the Spott Road bridge.
The 38 is without a doubt the bus I use the most (I use it most days), I really don’t think it needs deckers at all. If the worst came to the worst they could maybe introduce an extra run from Longstone-ERI-Longstone in the AM peak & a Longstone-ERI-Granton-Longstone one in the PM peak, but I think it’s doing fine as is.
Ran until the 11/9/22 or 28/5/23 changes, I remember seeing the last Lothian B7s on them & some B9s, think it was withdrawn when 926-935 went into the reserve fleet.
TheEastCoaster
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Guess that rules out the possibility of Dunbar ever getting a double decker service! Thank goodness it has a 20 minute frequency!
JKP
Member
Dunbar has seen double deck buses in the past on Northumbria 39 and Lowland 104 from Berwick and Eyemouth, but these routes entered the town through Broxburn.
stevenedin
Established Member
Also First Scotland East services 106 and X6 using Scania Omnidekkas.
VioletEclipse
Member
There were also B5LHs and occasionally Solos on it if I remember right. For a few years at least it continued onto a service 18.
TheEastCoaster
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It's a shame that with the exception of the 253, they are no links between Dunbar and the borders
Tom B
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1, 2, 12 and 32 have previously been double decker, but moved to single decker at some point along the way (the 1 when it was curtailed to Easter Road from Ocean Terminal during the first attempt at the tram mess).
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
When visiting Edinburgh recently I noticed that no buses had tramboards, which used to be fairly common for both special events and routine services (or Express/Limited Stop). Have they been discontinued?
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FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
That incarnation of the 32 you’re referring to was never converted to single decker. It was a peak only double deck route between Clovenstone and Granton. It did towards the end before being replaced by Skylink 200 in April 2017 have a habit of being single decker operated in its final couple of years, but that was largely owing to a chronic shortage of double deckers at the time. That 32 absolutely needed the double decks, even if it was just peak only. The current 32 is a council tender on a totally different route and was introduced in 2024.
The 1 was converted prior to its axe from Ocean Terminal, I think some time in 2008. This I think was largely to facilitate the conversion of the 22 to double deckers. A few routes were needed to backfill this balance. The 1, 2, 12, 13, 21, 24, 42 and 45 were all converted to single deckers over a period of about three years from 2007/8-2010/11. General demand on these routes had suffered as a result of the change of habits and some as a direct consequence of the 22’s existence and growth. Many of these routes were also former circular routes which resulted in market change after these were changed to standard end to end routes. I can’t think of any other routes that were converted to single deckers but there may be others that I’ve simply forgotten about. Some of these routes are gone or are back to double deckers with changes. A few other routes also temporarily used single deckers in that 2015-17 time period of chronic shortages. The 18 and part of the 19 were examples of this.
Tom B
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I recall the changes to the 1; prior to this, there was interworking with the 22s and 34s at Ocean Terminal (in the evenings and on Sundays, a bus would arrive as a 1 and go out as a 34, and a lot of buses got to/from Ocean Terminal by becoming a part route 22 to Balgreen). This was when the 22s were run by the single deck Volvos.
There was then a major service change (and, as I recall, a general city-wide cutback) in I think January 2009. The 22s went from Central to Longstone and on to double deckers (new branded ones appeared a little later) with a slightly lower frequency. I can't remember if it hit 3 minutes previously, but it was certainly something like that - there was never a point in running to catch a 22 as another one would invariably be behind. In return, the 25s went from Longstone to Marine. This initially seemed to be quite challenging, as Marine used the older V/W reg Tridents rather than Longstone's newer 2002 batch which were bigger and certainly felt faster as a passenger. There were even a couple of times when an Olympian was dusted off and put onto the 25s which, as I understood, should not have happened as it was a park & ride route. It definitely was a challenging time for LRT as the combined impact of Princes St being closed, MUDFA diversions and the whole tram project issues, plus the recession at the time.
Indeed the city centre got to the point that I remember being on a 1 along Fountainbridge where the driver had been showing a part route, but was called up and instructed to change to full-route and then wait when he got to Clermiston, such was the late running that he had effectively "lapped" himself and caught up where he should have been on the next trip!
There was then a major service change (and, as I recall, a general city-wide cutback) in I think January 2009. The 22s went from Central to Longstone and on to double deckers (new branded ones appeared a little later) with a slightly lower frequency. I can't remember if it hit 3 minutes previously, but it was certainly something like that - there was never a point in running to catch a 22 as another one would invariably be behind. In return, the 25s went from Longstone to Marine. This initially seemed to be quite challenging, as Marine used the older V/W reg Tridents rather than Longstone's newer 2002 batch which were bigger and certainly felt faster as a passenger. There were even a couple of times when an Olympian was dusted off and put onto the 25s which, as I understood, should not have happened as it was a park & ride route. It definitely was a challenging time for LRT as the combined impact of Princes St being closed, MUDFA diversions and the whole tram project issues, plus the recession at the time.
Indeed the city centre got to the point that I remember being on a 1 along Fountainbridge where the driver had been showing a part route, but was called up and instructed to change to full-route and then wait when he got to Clermiston, such was the late running that he had effectively "lapped" himself and caught up where he should have been on the next trip!
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
Indeed. The 22 gained the 08 plate Gemini’s when new and as you say the pink top 326-350 would be its allocation on their delivery.
There was also the bizarre system of the 7 and 33 interworking at Ferniehill/Hyvots Bank. Both routes Longstone operated. I never quite got how this came about but it was changed in 2011 (possibly 2012) with the 7 extended to Royal Infirmary and the 33 rerouted to Sheriffhall. The 7 logically moved to Central. The 33 soon after would be extended to Gorebridge after First closed Dalkeith depot. Almost like this change was planned in advance ahead of an anticipation that the First 86 would soon need replaced.
Tom B
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The interworkings of the 33/7 and 11/31 I understood went back a very long time.
There were also other interworkings which were quite surreal - for example in c.2007, the Sunday 24 ran from the New RIE to Waverley only. However, on arrival at the bottom of Lothian Road the bus would be re-screened as a 22 and would pop down to Ocean Terminal, returning back up as "22 West End" - at Waverley it would re-screen as "24 Royal Infirmary" and continue on that route. Similar situation occurred at one point with 25s coming from Riccarton as part route Waverley, being re-screened into X26s to East Lothian.
There were also other interworkings which were quite surreal - for example in c.2007, the Sunday 24 ran from the New RIE to Waverley only. However, on arrival at the bottom of Lothian Road the bus would be re-screened as a 22 and would pop down to Ocean Terminal, returning back up as "22 West End" - at Waverley it would re-screen as "24 Royal Infirmary" and continue on that route. Similar situation occurred at one point with 25s coming from Riccarton as part route Waverley, being re-screened into X26s to East Lothian.
What's a "tramboard"? Mr. Google seems not to know, at first glance.
I notice that quite a large number of buses seem to run around Edinburgh with the ‘diverted route’ symbol on the front. It seems counter intuitive as rather than being rare it seemed to be every other service?
I’ve also noticed they don’t seem to do ‘via’ points anymore. Tourists waiting at Ocean Terminal for example might not realise that buses to Herriot-Watt or Bonaly, actually go via the city centre
On a separate note, are there any services that are run from more than one depot?
I’ve also noticed they don’t seem to do ‘via’ points anymore. Tourists waiting at Ocean Terminal for example might not realise that buses to Herriot-Watt or Bonaly, actually go via the city centre
On a separate note, are there any services that are run from more than one depot?
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
As I remember it there were also AM X26’s that on arrival at Waverley carried on as 22’s to the Gyle before returning as part route 22’s to Foot of the Walk. Confusingly these runs often used red top 26’s on the otherwise pink top operated 22 as attached here.
Tom B
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A wooden(?) board with supplementary information, which Lothian use (or used?) in various ways. Buses had either a holder on the front panel on the outside of the bus, between the headlights, or in the front windscreen.
...highlighting tourist locations at peak periods...
Full-frontal at Hyvots Bank
Lothian Gemini 779 is seen resting at the Hyvots Bank terminus of route 11. It is one of a growing number of this series repainted into traditional Edinburgh colours which these vehicles carry particularly well. The 11 can trace its 'roots' back to tramway days when tram 11 worked between...
www.flickr.com
...or special events...
671's on the way to Murrayfield
With a 2pm kick-off at Murrayfield Lothian's staff were well organised to provide extra services for a couple of hours from lunch time so that fans could arrive in plenty of time. Additional buses were required for routes to both sides of the stadium, at Balgreen and Corstorphine and Lothian...
www.flickr.com
...or express service stopping patterns
Lothian 888 is seen on X15 duty in Waterloo Place, Edinburgh. This street is the start or end of the A1 road to/from London.
This bus service which has a thirty minute daytime frequency links Penicuik (south of the city) with Prestonpans, East Lothian. Some of the route limited stop. Lothian Buses' longest route 21.71 miles. Regent Arch, Stamp Office, Balmoral Hotel behind. From 23 Apr 2017 destination cut back from...
www.flickr.com
Some seemed to appear for long periods (e.g. to advertise that a service now went to a new housing estate or supermarket), others would be used at key times (e.g. 25s and 34s had "Heriot-Watt Univ" tramboards on open days and on the first few weeks of term), to display a destination or clarification that wasn't on the blind, or to reinforce limited stop patterns (e.g. "X25 - NON STOP The Exchange to Sighthill Colleges").
NorthEastern
Member
Ah the tramboards, happy days. I miss them, they were a useful Edinburgh feature, and showed that Lothian ops people gave extra thought over and above sending the buses and drivers out. Great example pics by the way.A wooden(?) board with supplementary information, which Lothian use (or used?) in various ways. Buses had either a holder on the front panel on the outside of the bus, between the headlights, or in the front windscreen.
...highlighting tourist locations at peak periods...
Full-frontal at Hyvots Bank
Lothian Gemini 779 is seen resting at the Hyvots Bank terminus of route 11. It is one of a growing number of this series repainted into traditional Edinburgh colours which these vehicles carry particularly well. The 11 can trace its 'roots' back to tramway days when tram 11 worked between...
...or special events...
671's on the way to Murrayfield
With a 2pm kick-off at Murrayfield Lothian's staff were well organised to provide extra services for a couple of hours from lunch time so that fans could arrive in plenty of time. Additional buses were required for routes to both sides of the stadium, at Balgreen and Corstorphine and Lothian...
...or express service stopping patterns
Lothian 888 is seen on X15 duty in Waterloo Place, Edinburgh. This street is the start or end of the A1 road to/from London.
This bus service which has a thirty minute daytime frequency links Penicuik (south of the city) with Prestonpans, East Lothian. Some of the route limited stop. Lothian Buses' longest route 21.71 miles. Regent Arch, Stamp Office, Balmoral Hotel behind. From 23 Apr 2017 destination cut back from...
Some seemed to appear for long periods (e.g. to advertise that a service now went to a new housing estate or supermarket), others would be used at key times (e.g. 25s and 34s had "Heriot-Watt Univ" tramboards on open days and on the first few weeks of term), to display a destination or clarification that wasn't on the blind, or to reinforce limited stop patterns (e.g. "X25 - NON STOP The Exchange to Sighthill Colleges").
They were.also used in LRT days to provide supplementary route information, notably if a service had no suitable intermediate screen. "LRT Lothian" would be screened in the intermediate display with a slipboard below the windscreen.
stevenedin
Established Member
Sorry I misread that. I do remember the 08 plates being on the 22. I think that coincided with the guided busway closing as well.
Lothian285
Member
They were discontinued in early 2017 if I remember correctly, the last service to use them being East Coast Buses 107. Despite being gone from the buses, I believe Edinburgh Trams still use them.
Lothianbus703
Member
I was under the impression Lothian had access to the most amount of double deckers possible aside from 2019-2020 during this period because of all the new deliveries coming in or was it a similar situation to when they replaced 153 deckers with only 98 in 2021, with the E400 MMC's replacing B9TL's 301-350/826-840/841-904/907-925 and E400H's 201-215.
Not to forget the small number of B7TLs still remaining in March 2020.
Surprisingly, these interworkings only dated from 2001 and were the result of a network change that May. Before then it was the 7 which interworked with the 11, and the 31 which interworked with the 33.
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
It became quite problematic though as you had peak runs on the 19 which were single decker operated - an absolute no no. The 18 and 32 just about managed but it wasn’t great.
I believe what started it off was a poorly thought out set of 2015 changes. 426-437 and 551-570 had not long been delivered. As a result many of the oldest double deckers were sold on. Central gained most of Longstone’s 52 plate Tridents to replace a large chunk of the 51 plates at Central. There were also some 51 plates at Longstone that had been replaced. 426-437 had limited impact on the city fleet as 937-950 moved to Marine for the then LCB 104 and 113. 937-938 had been earlier replaced on the Airlink and were by this point much needed peak extra buses for Longstone. 939-950 were replaced by 426-437. As a result, 171-175 and 635-636 were moved back into the city fleet with 195-199 stored.
Then in 2016 ECB came along. That took away a further few vehicles from the city fleet without replacement. 6 51 plate tridents went over for the school runs. The other 51 plates had been sold on by this point. The 6 moved to ECB were the last examples left. 193-194 also moved East from the city fleet with 195-199 brought out of storage. Second hand 101-107 came in too.
I want to say 441-465 for Longstone ended up being delivered late, something like December 2016 when it should’ve been September 2016. 989 was also slower than first thought to repair. Remember that’s when the heritage vehicles even made an appearance on peak extra 25’s - this is largely what 937-938 had been doing. Eventually by about the start of 2017 it had stopped as 701-720 moved to Central in phases with other buses moving to Marine in a domino effect. Thus the problem had finally ironed itself out. The subsequent introduction of the 43 in 2017 thankfully made no difference as the largest batch of Gemini3’s 466-510 had already been delivered.
If you search across sites such as Flickr you’ll see examples of what I’m referring to. This issue was at its peak in early to mid 2016.
The reduction in 2020-21 was simply as a result of COVID. Though with hindsight, they sold too many buses on. Only now are they starting to fill the gaps back. They were in desperate need for the cash at the time though.
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TheEastCoaster
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They were relativity charming, it wasn't much but nice little attention to details which give further information on the type of service, especially when most Lothian services don't have via points anymore, (except the X4-7, X19 & 140/141) I'm not counting the X18/27/28, 113 & 124 into this because all they have is just destinations underneath the terminus which is clunky.
Truth be told I wish they could bring these back, especially for the Country services, the 70 would be handy so folk who have been living under a rock can realise it goes via Ratho, why it doesn't have it on the destination board is beyond me, the X19 got it right by saying via Kirkliston so Edinburgh Residents can see a Lothian service running to Kirkliston.
How did the 31 interwork with the 33 back then? Infact how did the 7/11 interwork also? As far as I'm concerned the 7 always went to the Royal with the 11 going to Hyvots, did they both just terminate at Newhaven back then and that's how it interchanged?
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
Speaking of these weird scenarios, does anyone know the last time Burdiehouse turning circle was used on a regular basis for its actual purpose? I know the heritage specials did but as a regular everyday route it must be going back a very long time now? I know the crossing being installed meant the stop came back into use but I honestly can’t remember the last time something was scheduled to turn around there.
Avenger20
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I seem to remember a night bus terminated there for a while? N33 I want to say as I'm sure the N37 continued into Midlothian.
stevenedin
Established Member
The 7 used to terminate at Ferniehill changing into a 33 to Baberton then the 33 used to terminate at Hyvots Bank which changed into a 7 to Newhaven.