Global Airlines launch flights announced

[edwin_m]

Also the journeys are too long for crews to fly out and back in one shift, so they either have to deadhead one way (which I suspect would take them out of hours for the next day as well) or stay over at destination and bring a later flight back. Either way the airline also has to employ extra crews to cover this.

 

[cactustwirly]

I'm really not sure there is. I suspect Ryanair have looked into it sufficiently to determine that as they were talking about it at one point.

Very few people will be happy to take an 8 hour flight with no refreshments and a small underseat bag only. Once you add all the extras to "low cost" flights usually full-service is cheaper. Yes, some will be happy with that, but they'll be few enough in number to make it uneconomic. Just about the only way you can save is by cramming seats in a bit e.g. 3-4-3 777s and 3-3-3 787s.

The place money is made long-haul is premium classes.

By the time you've got food and bags, Norse ends up being a similar price to BA anyway.
BAs long haul fares can be very competitive, seen £500 return to many destinations before if you book at the right times

 

[gabrielhj07]

Also the journeys are too long for crews to fly out and back in one shift, so they either have to deadhead one way (which I suspect would take them out of hours for the next day as well) or stay over at destination and bring a later flight back. Either way the airline also has to employ extra crews to cover this.

Yes; a crew positioning out to operate the return flight would be no better off hours-wise than the operating crew. Depending on the airline, the outbound crew could position back to save on hotel costs, although that wouldn't work if they wanted to run a regular service.

 

[TravelDream]

Very few people will be happy to take an 8 hour flight with no refreshments and a small underseat bag only. Once you add all the extras to "low cost" flights usually full-service is cheaper. Yes, some will be happy with that, but they'll be few enough in number to make it uneconomic. Just about the only way you can save is by cramming seats in a bit e.g. 3-4-3 777s and 3-3-3 787s.

Au contraire.
For the right price, people would.

Not too long ago people said the same about Europe. How can go on holiday without a checked bag? Who can fly without a meal?
But, suddenly, now people can do these things.

Even BA has 5+ hour flights now where that's all you get is a tiny packet of crisps and a small bottle of water along with hand luggage. The market has moved on and that's what it accepts now.

The same could easily happen with long haul.

Nobody has quite made it work in Europe quite yet, but the model has been applied profitably in Asia with Cebu Pacific, Air Asia X, Zipair, Scoot among others. And these airlines range from startup challengers like Cebu and established national airlines like Scoot (owned by Singapore) and Zip (owned by JAL Japan Air Lines).

I certainly wouldn't say it would be easy. Plenty of short-haul European LCCs have gone bust. And it's one of the reasons you have to admire Michael O'Leary. But I don't think the EU-Americas market is so special that LCCs wouldn't work on it.

For me, I think Cebu's model probably would be the best application. Get those planes flying to major NE cities and to sun destinations. Though that's just my feeling.

Ryanair is constrained by the 737, introducing any other aircraft would be an operational nightmare and the margins are just too small for it to be worth it to introduce another fleet.

No doubt they've looked at it and thought better of it.
Though they aren't constrained by the 737.
For one, they already operate the A320. Plus they'll soon operate the Max 10s which will require five cabin crew instead of 4.
Any long-haul operation would likely see a new type added.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that this thread is for the discussion of Global Airlines

If anyone wants to discuss anything else then please start a new thread.

thanks

 

[sabanda]

Bot Verification

“It is quite clear from much of what we are seeing and reading that some have decided to take huge speculation and repeat it as fact,” said the airline in a statement.

“We’re not planning to change any strategy to become an ACMI operator.

“ACMI has always been part of our discussions with Hi Fly, but nothing has changed about our direction of travel and the vision and ambition we have for the future.

“We still have our eye on the ultimate goal of becoming a scheduled airline in the future, but we recognise there are still a lot of things to tackle on that journey.”

I suppose you could read "We’re not planning to change any strategy to become an ACMI operator" as "We are planning to become an ACMI operator, but this is not a new strategy." To me the most likely outcome is that they give HiFly use of the aircraft for their own ACMI services over the summer, and refer to this as being an extension of the Global business. They are now saying there won't be any more TATL ops until Jan 2026.

In addition to the mixed reviews, the wider aviation community was quick to point out the low load factor on those trips, which was then clarified by Global Airlines as being “the perfect number of passengers”.

“These flights were never planned to be full or even close to it,” the airline said.

“We wanted to test our service and products and we wanted to focus on our premium cabins.

“We succeeded on all fronts and if we had more passengers we would never have got to test all the elements we wanted to try out.”

 

[mpthomson]

Bot Verification

I suppose you could read "We’re not planning to change any strategy to become an ACMI operator" as "We are planning to become an ACMI operator, but this is not a new strategy." To me the most likely outcome is that they give HiFly use of the aircraft for their own ACMI services over the summer, and refer to this as being an extension of the Global business. They are now saying there won't be any more TATL ops until Jan 2026.

That’s a very ‘Asquith’ press release. The thing about the number of passengers being ‘perfect’ is eyebrow raising at best.

They were giving away tickets to raffle shortly before the flights and had dropped the price by half not long before, selling them still 24hrs before the flight.

Those aren’t the actions of someone not wanting to fill the seats. The idea that they wanted to run those flights at a colossal loss is nonsensical.

 

[Airline Man]

Whatever happened to Global Airlines. Seemed to have disappeared since their two return trips.

 

[mpthomson]

Whatever happened to Global Airlines. Seemed to have disappeared since their two return trips.

They're in the process of negotiating a large cash injection and shareholding with an ME company and refurbing the airframe with that money from what's been announced previously. As above, their future (if any) lies in ACMI work, probably Hajj charters from what has been reported..

Notably Global's website now requires an access code to enter it with no information on how to obtain one and no way of booking any tickets or registering an interest as the website asks you to do, so it's safe to say that the website is now dormant if not defunct and this is their way of trying to hide it.

The A 380 made one 30 minute circuit over Dresden last week, otherwise it hasn't moved since it went there immediately after the last flight to MAN from JFK.

 

[TravelDream]

I still think it was the most bizarre thing.

They launched their inaugural flight. A flight packed with media, vloggers, 'influencers' etc. and they didn't even have a working website.

The poster above has basically said it.
They plan on getting Saudi investment and setting up shop as a charter airline (what's known as ACMI in the industry (aircraft, crew, maintenance and insurance). From what I've seen, mainly focusing on Hajj flights to Mecca.
That's a notoriously low yielding/ low revenue industry which has fairly high costs so let's see how they do.

Not to sound like I don't want them to succeed. I really do.

 

[mpthomson]

I still think it was the most bizarre thing.

They launched their inaugural flight. A flight packed with media, vloggers, 'influencers' etc. and they didn't even have a working website.

The poster above has basically said it.
They plan on getting Saudi investment and setting up shop as a charter airline (what's known as ACMI in the industry (aircraft, crew, maintenance and insurance). From what I've seen, mainly focusing on Hajj flights to Mecca.
That's a notoriously low yielding/ low revenue industry which has fairly high costs so let's see how they do.

Not to sound like I don't want them to succeed. I really do.

I suspect the ‘succeed’ boat has well and truly sailed. It appears to be a triumph of reality over chutzpah.

 

[nlogax]

To get a bit Hot Fuzz-ish, "No luck buying those A380s then?"..."It's just the one A380 actually"

 

[Ted633]

They launched their inaugural flight. A flight packed with media, vloggers, 'influencers' etc. and they didn't even have a working website.

The word ’Packed’ is doing some heavy lifting there!

 

[mpthomson]

The word ’Packed’ is doing some heavy lifting there!

‘19% filled’ would be more accurate I think.

 

[nwales58]

‘announcement’ snd ‘negotiating’ might br doing heavy lifting too. Corroberating evidence?

 

[edwin_m]

If it was only 19% full they there wasn't much heavy lifting going on.

 

[m0ffy]

Could they even run as an effective ACMI, considering they don’t appear to have their own AOC, and had to use HiFly crew for their demo flight?

The whole thing is just bizarre, from the aircraft choice, to the “launch”, to the present day.

 

[mpthomson]

‘announcement’ snd ‘negotiating’ might br doing heavy lifting too. Corroberating evidence?

Various reliable sources in the reputable aviation press (Aviation Week for one, they even named the Saudi company involved) that caused Asquith to come out with what on the face of it looks like a press release denying that but in fact does no such thing when you look at what he actually said.

 

[TravelDream]

The word ’Packed’ is doing some heavy lifting there!

Relatively of course. I know the flight was far from full. I meant of those onboard.

Could they even run as an effective ACMI, considering they don’t appear to have their own AOC, and had to use HiFly crew for their demo flight?

Just one of the many many issues they have.
They used Hifly's crew and AOC for their 'inaugural flight'. That's all they own is an aircraft.

They must be burning through money right now at a rate of knots even with the plane sat on the ground.

 

[465fan]

The aircraft has moved from Dresden to somewhere in Spain today for storage. Looks like trouble.

 

[TravelDream]

The aircraft has moved from Dresden to somewhere in Spain today for storage. Looks like trouble.

It's in France

FlightGlobal has an article on it.

Global temporarily parks A380 at Tarbes to await further maintenance

UK company Global Airlines has transferred its Airbus A380 to Tarbes airport in France, but insists the jet is not being placed in storage. The Maltese-registered aircraft was flown to Tarbes from Dresden on 16 July. Although Tarbes is used as a long-term storage facility, and is the location of...

www.flightglobal.com

UK company Global Airlines has transferred its Airbus A380 to Tarbes airport in France, but insists the jet is not being placed in storage.

The Maltese-registered aircraft was flown to Tarbes from Dresden on 16 July.

Although Tarbes is used as a long-term storage facility, and is the location of specialist Tarmac Aerosave, Global Airlines says the A380’s presence is temporary.

It states that the jet has completed its latest round of servicing and will be parked “until it is time head off to the next stage of heavy maintenance”.

Read into it what you will. Very odd move if it were just storage - even if Tarbes is cheaper than Dresden for parking, the cost of flying the whalejet there would be immense. Unless they are planning on a Lourdes miracle of course!

 

[465fan]

It's in France

FlightGlobal has an article on it.

Global temporarily parks A380 at Tarbes to await further maintenance

UK company Global Airlines has transferred its Airbus A380 to Tarbes airport in France, but insists the jet is not being placed in storage. The Maltese-registered aircraft was flown to Tarbes from Dresden on 16 July. Although Tarbes is used as a long-term storage facility, and is the location of...

www.flightglobal.com

Read into it what you will. Very odd move if it were just storage - even if Tarbes is cheaper than Dresden for parking, the cost of flying the whalejet there would be immense. Unless they are planning on a Lourdes miracle of course!

Tarbes, that's it. Accidentally mixed that up with the place in Spain that keeps a lot of stuff dry.

 

[yoyothehobo]

It's in France

FlightGlobal has an article on it.

Global temporarily parks A380 at Tarbes to await further maintenance

UK company Global Airlines has transferred its Airbus A380 to Tarbes airport in France, but insists the jet is not being placed in storage. The Maltese-registered aircraft was flown to Tarbes from Dresden on 16 July. Although Tarbes is used as a long-term storage facility, and is the location of...

www.flightglobal.com

Read into it what you will. Very odd move if it were just storage - even if Tarbes is cheaper than Dresden for parking, the cost of flying the whalejet there would be immense. Unless they are planning on a Lourdes miracle of course!

I saw Hajj mentioned up thread.

Maybe they just got their pilgrimage location wrong and it was actually to Lourdes.

Wouldnt be the largest mistake they have made.

 

[mpthomson]

It's in France

FlightGlobal has an article on it.

Global temporarily parks A380 at Tarbes to await further maintenance

UK company Global Airlines has transferred its Airbus A380 to Tarbes airport in France, but insists the jet is not being placed in storage. The Maltese-registered aircraft was flown to Tarbes from Dresden on 16 July. Although Tarbes is used as a long-term storage facility, and is the location of...

www.flightglobal.com

Read into it what you will. Very odd move if it were just storage - even if Tarbes is cheaper than Dresden for parking, the cost of flying the whalejet there would be immense. Unless they are planning on a Lourdes miracle of course!

Asquith has form for very sunny press releases like this that don't match the reality so we'll see. it seems slightly strange (but there again, everything about this launch is strange) that they've paused maintenance to just let it sit costing money waiting for the next stage instead of getting on with it and getting it flying again. Unless of course they've run out of funds currently.

For those who aren't aware Tarmac Aerosave is an Airbus led consortium that provides storage, maintenance and recycling of airframes, so it does make some kind of sense for it to be there if it's genuinely being stored.

 

[Tetchytyke]

From the article above:

“It won’t be long before [the aircraft] is up in the clouds once again on the way to the next adventure,” it adds.

Well, bits of it will be, in an Emirates airframe.

 

[TravelDream]

For those who aren't aware Tarmac Aerosave is an Airbus led consortium that provides storage, maintenance and recycling of airframes, so it does make some kind of sense for it to be there if it's genuinely being stored.

It really doesn't.

Tarmac Aerosave do airframe evaluations and I think they will for this A380 and Global will not like the outcome.
The airframe is unlikely to to leave Tarbes-Lourdes the same way it came in sadly.

Storage would have made more sense in a quieter, drier*, and cheaper airport.


(*humidity is a real enemy for stored aircraft. Look at Thai's A380s which they stored in Bangkok at the start of Covid. They are in an awful condition and are no longer airworthy having failed inspections. Thai are still trying to sell them, but obviously are struggling given they'll have to be dismantled in Bangkok where there are no facilities to do it. I haven't seen the interior, but it's likely incredibly moldy to the extent it would be hazardous to health.).

 

[edwin_m]

Tarbes, that's it. Accidentally mixed that up with the place in Spain that keeps a lot of stuff dry.

I thought the rain in Spain fell mainly on the plane.

 

[mpthomson]

It really doesn't.

Tarmac Aerosave do airframe evaluations and I think they will for this A380 and Global will not like the outcome.
The airframe is unlikely to to leave Tarbes-Lourdes the same way it came in sadly.

Storage would have made more sense in a quieter, drier*, and cheaper airport.


(*humidity is a real enemy for stored aircraft. Look at Thai's A380s which they stored in Bangkok at the start of Covid. They are in an awful condition and are no longer airworthy having failed inspections. Thai are still trying to sell them, but obviously are struggling given they'll have to be dismantled in Bangkok where there are no facilities to do it. I haven't seen the interior, but it's likely incredibly moldy to the extent it would be hazardous to health.).

I was trying to do an Asquith and be optimistic! I'm aware it's not likely to leave.

 

[Cloud Strife]

A low cost aircraft will do 3, possibly 4 cycles a day. That's 600-1,000 passengers over 24 hours who not only buy the flight, they buy food and drink, pay various additional fees, book car parking, hotels and car hire through affiliates.

4 cycles? In the summer months, 6-8 is rather the norm. The general principle is that you want to keep the plane in the air from 6am until at least 9-10pm, if not later.

Wizz seem to be making Gatwick - Jeddah work on a 6h30 flight schedule.

Wizz just pulled out of their Abu Dhabi routes, so I suspect that the Saudi run is only there because of being subsidised by the Saudi government. The entire plan of Wizz creating a one-stop service via the Middle East to anywhere in Asia seems to have come to a quiet end, probably because no-one in their right mind would trust Wizz on anything more than a 2 hour flight to London.

Although their 737 Max 10 variant on order has a range of 3,600 miles, so something like Shannon to Montreal/Toronto/Ottawa would be feasible.

Ryanair always mention it for free publicity, but the reality is that there's just no sense in it for them as it's horribly complex to organise. Their flights right now can be operated with single crews, whereas a hop across the pond would need additional (non working) crews to be transported. I could see Ryanair doing it for publicity if they got offered a brilliant deal by Shannon or one of the NA airports, but they need those Max-10s to replace some of their older aircraft too.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Ryanair always mention it for free publicity, but the reality is that there's just no sense in it for them as it's horribly complex to organise. Their flights right now can be operated with single crews, whereas a hop across the pond would need additional (non working) crews to be transported. I could see Ryanair doing it for publicity if they got offered a brilliant deal by Shannon or one of the NA airports, but they need those Max-10s to replace some of their older aircraft too.

True.