Discussion: 158s, who does them best?

[Hamma52]

Hi folks.

Discussion time about the 158s, and a very simple question.

Who would you say runs the 158s the best? Given many TOCs use them (or the very similar 159), I wondered who would you say offers the best service, takes care of them the most, etc.

They're 35 years old this year, so among the older members of the British Rail Network's collection of rolling stock, and whilst they are beginning to show their age, they're still soldiering on and providing a crucial service to many lines across the country. But with newer units being introduced, we're seeing their numbers gradually dwindle. At the same time, however, we're also seeing the comparison between them and the units they're being replaced by.

At this present moment in time, they're operated by Transport for Wales, GWR, Northern, EMR, SouthWestern and Scotrail.

So, from a passenger comfort/reliability standpoint, who would you say provides the best experience on a 158?

 

[43096]

Hi folks.

Discussion time about the 158s, and a very simple question.
Who would you say runs the 158s the best? Given they have a large number of TOCs that use them (or the very similar 159), I wondered who would you say offers the best service, takes care of them the most, etc.

They're 35 years old this year, so among the older members of the British Rail Network's collection of rolling stock, and whilst they are beginning to show their age, they're still soldiering on and providing a crucial service to many lines across the country. But with newer units being introduced, we're seeing their numbers gradually dwindle. At the same time however, we're also seeing the comparison between them and the units they're being replaced by.

At this present moment in time, they're operated by Transport for Wales, GWR, Northern, EMR, SouthWestern and Scotrail. So from a passenger comfort/reliability stand point, who would you say provides the best experience on a 158?

South West Trains 158/159 fleet before WorstGroup got hold of them. Excellent interiors, retaining the original comfortable seats, plus upgraded air conditioning that SWT actually maintained in accordance with the manufacturer's recommended maintenance regime and also additional hoppers installed on the 159/0s for if the aircon does break.

All-in-all, the best DMU we've ever had.

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

Can only speak about the refurbished Northern 158.

For semi rural services and short trips they are great.

They ride very well and it is pleasant trundling along looking at the countryside out of their big windows. In fact, I’m disappointed when a 156 turns up as they are really showing their age.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

The TfW ones probably have the best interiors. Northern ones are surprisingly OK considering that their seats are ironing boards with extra padding.

The unreliable aircon problem affects all of them to a greater or lesser degree - they don't cope well with hot weather.

 

[_toommm_]

The Northern three car 158/7s for me. With the original seats compared to the ironing boards, they're great for the long-ish journeys they operate (Leeds to Carlisle/Morecambe) and I love when one turns up versus one with ironing board seats.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

The Northern three car 158/7s for me. With the original seats compared to the ironing boards, they're great for the long-ish journeys they operate (Leeds to Carlisle/Morecambe) and I love when one turns up versus one with ironing board seats.

Those are absolutely awful for anyone who is tall!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Those are absolutely awful for anyone who is tall!

Agreed, but the refitted ones also don't have the best legroom either.

I've only used Northern, EMR, TfW and ScotRail 158s, I think TfW's stood out as the best, but they're all pretty decent.

My main ScotRail experience was being the only person in my carriage (except the guard) for hundreds of miles, as I was the only one to do the whole way from Dingwall - Wick on the first train of the day to Wick! The return train was also very quiet.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

TFW for me. Comfortable, ride well, and don’t feel too tired relatively speaking.

 

[Iskra]

The EMR 158 with 2+1 declassified first class section is the best 158, I’ve forgotten the unit number for now.

I think EMR generally do the 158 the best due to seat quality, they still feel like regional express trains. Northern’s are okay, with the middle carriages being comfortable for longer journeys on the sets where they exist.

TfW’s are nice too.

158’s are good units still, until the air cooling packs up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed, but the refitted ones also don't have the best legroom either.

The ironing board ones are in the original layout with thin back seats which means the legroom is cavernous! The original seat ones have been ruined by the cushions being too thick, you sit too high and legroom is almost as bad as a 150/2 or 153.

My favourite are probably the ScotRail Inverness sets though.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The ironing board ones are in the original layout with thin back seats which means the legroom is cavernous!

I'm sure there are a couple seats on those that don't have as much leg room, but I could just be confused, the only time I regularly use the refitted ones are short forms (2 vice 3)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure there are a couple seats on those that don't have as much leg room, but I could just be confused, the only time I regularly use the refitted ones are short forms (2 vice 3)

There might be a couple of such rows where the priority seats have had the space increased at the expense of the next row, but otherwise they're pretty good.

 

[aar0]

TFW for me. Comfortable, ride well, and don’t feel too tired relatively speaking.

They feel like 10 year old trains, never had one without working aircon, decent legroom (and I’m 6’6”), and they’re kept clean by TfW. Feel 20 years newer than SWR’s!

 

[Calderdale Ian]

Northern's two car 158s have a generous amount of leg room in most of the airline seats and are a comfy unit to travel on given their age. The seats in the three cars are ridiculous, too much padding ...I was hoping they would replace them when they went for the recent C6 but unfortunately not . The handful of times I've been on an EMR 158 the seat backs seem too high , it gives the impression the seats have been squeezed in .

 

[Forty29]

EMR have a newly refurbished 158 and LOOKS nice how it performs in the comfort department remains open to conjecture.

 

[WarrenTManager]

The EMR 158 with 2+1 declassified first class section is the best 158, I’ve forgotten the unit number for now.

I think EMR generally do the 158 the best due to seat quality, they still feel like regional express trains. Northern’s are okay, with the middle carriages being comfortable for longer journeys on the sets where they exist.

TfW’s are nice too.

158’s are good units still, until the air cooling packs up.

158889

 

[19Gnasher69]

Sims at Newport will do them best. Sadly they’ll not get the chance to demonstrate their prowess for some time.

 

[tfw756rider]

The interior of East Midlands Railway's 158847 looks really nice, but the USB sockets are in a not very good location (under the seats) for some reason (and the boxes look like something you'd put under a 3.5" floppy drive in a late 90s PC case to add front USB ports to it).

As someone who frequently travels on the Transport for Wales (TfW) 158s (in addition to their 197s, 231s and my namesake 756s), I can say that the Transport for Wales 2020 158 refurbishment (which is just a partial refurbishment of the Welsh Government / Arriva Trains Wales 2010-2012 refurbishment) is already falling to bits and in a poor state in 2025. I won't state all the issues, because I know there's a parts shortage and the fitters are doing the best they can.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jul 2025 ==

Sims at Newport will do them best.

Agreed. In my opinion, there shouldn't be any further refurbishment of 158s after the East Midlands Railway ones (apart from anything the next operator of the Transport for Wales 158s - who I'll not name here in the wrong subforum for that - will need to do to them).

As I've said several times on this site, I think there shouldn't be anything older than 168/170 age in normal service much into the 2030s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jul 2025 ==

The Northern three car 158/7s for me. With the original seats compared to the ironing boards, they're great for the long-ish journeys they operate (Leeds to Carlisle/Morecambe) and I love when one turns up versus one with ironing board seats.

158s with 1587xx and 1588xx unit numbers (and even Great Western Railway's 1589xx) are in subclass 158/0 - only Northern's 158s with 1589xx unit numbers are in a subclass other than 158/0 (158/9)

 

[AJDesiro]

EMR have a newly refurbished 158 and LOOKS nice how it performs in the comfort department remains open to conjecture.

They’re the same Grammer IC3000 seats as before, just with new foams and covers.

 

[Kite159]

GWR

Power sockets and seats which are not tombstones for airline style.

 

[Parallel]

I’d say the SWT livered 158/159 units, the TfW 158s and the ScotRail Inverness 158s are the best.

The GWR 158s are also decent, but leg room isn’t ideal, and I’m not sure if they just appear more comfortable because you can also get a Turbo operating the same routes.

 

[Russel]

The TfW ones probably have the best interiors. Northern ones are surprisingly OK considering that their seats are ironing boards with extra padding.

I wanted to suggest TFW, but the last 158 of theirs I used looked quite tatty inside, I'm not sure if it was just a bad example or representative of the whole fleet, though.

 

[FrontSideBus]

EMR Regional followed by GWR's sets with the original retrimmed seats IMO.
I still have a soft spot for the 158 tbh and I will be sad when they leave service.
I remember when I was a child when they entered service and being totally in awe that it had a payphone onboard... A phone on a train!!!

 

[Wyrleybart]

Interesting comments.

The last 158 journey I made was on a TfW unit from Dyffryn Ardudwy to Birmingham. A bright and sunny summer morning (probably June or July). The aircon didn't seem to be working but the emergency windows were open and it was actually really pleasant, what with the clickety clack between Barmouth and Dovey Jn. Cant remember now but I think the portion coupled to another from Aberystwyth, and I stayed in it until around Welshpool, when the environment got a bit warm and stuffy.

Friends had a holiday in Dawlish Warren last week, and decided to have a day trip to Torquay. He said the 166 to Torquay was pretty threadbare and tired, but the 158 return journey was nice.

 

[aar0]

GWR

Power sockets and seats which are not tombstones for airline style.

Negative legroom though. Even at table seats there’s hardly any.

 

[tfw756rider]

I wanted to suggest TFW, but the last 158 of theirs I used looked quite tatty inside, I'm not sure if it was just a bad example or representative of the whole fleet, though.

They're in such a state now; while everyone's entitled to their own opinion and I don't have anything against anyone personally, all the comments saying they're "the best" and "nice" are utterly baffling! I'd agree if it was still 2021, but not in 2025.

I really am looking forward to riding on one of the refurbished East Midlands Railway 158s sometime (even though, again, I think these trains shouldn't stay in normal service for more than about 7 more years).

 

[sh24]

First class on a 158/159. Otherwise they are pretty horrible - especially the original seating which is too low and too tightly pitched. The refurbed Northern and ScotRail versions are better but still I find them pretty disappointing. Most versions of the 170 are better.

 

[childwallblues]

The EMR 158 with 2+1 declassified first class section is the best 158, I’ve forgotten the unit number for now.

158889

 

[gabrielhj07]

Spent most of today in first class on an un refurbished 159. Streets ahead of anything else, save for perhaps Scotrail’s HSTs, IC225, and TfW’s Mk IVs.

 

[Russel]

They're in such a state now; while everyone's entitled to their own opinion and I don't have anything against anyone personally, all the comments saying they're "the best" and "nice" are utterly baffling! I'd agree if it was still 2021, but not in 2025.

Very much the appearance of a refurb done on the cheap then!