Mk5A coaching stock and associated Class 68 locomotives to Chiltern Railways (including speculation/suggestions)

[D365]

Tender result published £300m for all mk5s and class 68 locos
144 months

https://bidstats.uk/tenders/2025/W30/850985284

1 buyer​

• Chiltern Railway Sunderland

1 supplier​

• Beacon Rail Finance Europe London

Description​

The contracting authority will enter into contracts with the supplier for the supply of existing rolling stock for use on the Chiltern Railways routes. These contracts will be for the leasing by the supplier to the contracting authority of the supplier's full fleet of Mark5A coaches and Class 68 locomotives, for operation by the contracting authority, with associated maintenance.

Award Detail​

1	Beacon Rail Finance Europe (London) Reference: 1 Value: £300,000,000

On 22 December 2023 the contracting authority issued a contract notice - utilities with Notice reference 2023/S 000-037814 for the replacement of existing rolling stock. Beacon Rail Finance (Europe) Limited was the only supplier that could offer rolling stock units that meet the contracting authority's technical requirements of having units able to be utilised in fixed formations of 5 passenger vehicles to enter into passenger service from 31 March 2026 on a turnkey basis. Under the agreed contract terms, the supplier will be responsible for procuring preventative and corrective maintenance for the units on an interim basis for a period between contract award and 6 December 2026. This will cover services in respect of 4 units to be provided for the purposes of driver training and 3 units to enable passenger service commencement on 1 April 2026. The contracting authority will be responsible for certain train preparation, cleaning, fuelling and minor defect rectification services (as agreed from time to time between the contracting authority and the supplier's maintenance providers) during this interim period and will be a party to the interim service agreement in order to reduce interface risk with its self-delivered services and facilitate the performance and reliability of the units.

The contracting authority intends to carry out a separate procurement for the long-term provision of preventative and corrective maintenance over the remainder of the 144 month period.

With the contract award as above, I think it’s safe to say that the Mark 5A (Mk5A) sets and associated Class 68 locomotives are bound for Chiltern Railways.

 

[supervc-10]

Fantastic news. I presume this will enable more of the London-Birmingham services to be operated with LHCS, as there's more Mk.5 sets than the Mk.3 sets they're replacing?

 

[craigybagel]

To reply to @172007 from the now closed MKV speculation thread.

The future use of 68's & MK5's would in my opinion be with DOO Marylebone to Banbury then 10 Bell despatch from thereon to Stourbridge; as now.

The reasoning is:

DfT will not want to increase staffing costs with extra conductors.

Chiltern already work no gangway sets DOO sunset procedures are in place for Driver's going between units in the formation via external means.

Class 350's except going off lease /2's & 172's have all been retro fitted with full DCO / DOO do it's not only possible but has been done in the last 5 years. I can't see why a Mk5a would be out of gauge with cameras.

To back up the last comment, has there not been a mk5 set at Wolverton for and 5 or 6 68's at Loughborough for quite sometime. It may well be that camera fitting etc is being done or has been done and ready for rollout.

DFT may well want it, and technologically it may well be feasible, but that doesn't mean it's going to be easy. Is there space in the 68 cab for DOO monitors? Can they be made to reliably communicate with the MKV cameras? Bearing in mind one of the big reliability issues with the MKVs and the reason they were late into service was said to be trying to get the engine and coaches to reliably talk to each other.

Also, does Chiltern's Driver contract allow for DOO on loco hauled services? That would be an unprecedented step for the UK. It may not be all that different to the current situation of DMUs with no corridor connections running in multiple, but unless it's already catered for I'd be amazed if ASLEF could be persuaded to agree to it - never mind what RMT will likely say.

 

[43096]

Bearing in mind one of the big reliability issues with the MKVs and the reason they were late into service was said to be trying to get the engine and coaches to reliably talk to each other.

The jumper cables/sockets between the locos and stock were unfit for purpose from new (and pretty obviously so - just one look). They were changed out for something much more robust when the sets went through the Wolverton mod programme.

 

[172007]

We have a approx figure of how many locos are at Loughbrough jn the dedicated thread for that, anyone know how many and what mods are happening if at all.
How many Mk5 sets went and stayed at Wolverton and have any been seen

Be good if the next drone operator gets a close up of the Mk5's at Long Marston to see if they have sprung up Mods such as bodyside cameras.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2025 ==

To reply to @172007 from the now closed MKV speculation thread.

DFT may well want it, and technologically it may well be feasible, but that doesn't mean it's going to be easy. Is there space in the 68 cab for DOO monitors? Can they be made to reliably communicate with the MKV cameras? Bearing in mind one of the big reliability issues with the MKVs and the reason they were late into service was said to be trying to get the engine and coaches to reliably talk to each other.

Also, does Chiltern's Driver contract allow for DOO on loco hauled services? That would be an unprecedented step for the UK. It may not be all that different to the current situation of DMUs with no corridor connections running in multiple, but unless it's already catered for I'd be amazed if ASLEF could be persuaded to agree to it - never mind what RMT will likely say.

I thought the main issue with TPE and Mk5's was training of staff and lack of it rather than specifically technical issues?

 

[craigybagel]

The jumper cables/sockets between the locos and stock were unfit for purpose from new (and pretty obviously so - just one look). They were changed out for something much more robust when the sets went through the Wolverton mod programme.

I struggled to keep up with the MKV programme - was that before or after they were removed from service?

I thought the main issue with TPE and Mk5's was training of staff and lack of it rather than specifically technical issues?

I thought training ran late because the trains didn't work? If they'd been introduced when they were supposed to have been there may well have been more crews trained up on them, which might have persuaded TPE to keep hold of them after all. Mind you, they spent a while training up Sheffield and Cleethorpes crews only to immediately withdraw them from service so who's to say!

Bottom line is; nothing about their time with TPE gives me confidence that fitting them for DOO would be easy. And even if they do, there's still another issue....

Fantastic news. I presume this will enable more of the London-Birmingham services to be operated with LHCS, as there's more Mk.5 sets than the Mk.3 sets they're replacing?

As well as my misgivings about the guard situation, a large scale increase in the number of LHCS worked services would also likely require an increase in the number of LHCS trained drivers. I doubt that would be a quick process, but I also doubt that the existing LHCS qualified drivers at Stourbridge and Marylebone could take on such a workload between them. Moor Street are no longer 68 qualified, regardless of what coaches they're coupled to, and possibly Banbury would need training as well.

It's all doable, but I don't think we're going to see any big uplift for a long time yet.

 

[43096]

I struggled to keep up with the MKV programme - was that before or after they were removed from service?

From memory, towards the end of their time in service with TPE.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

The jumper cables/sockets between the locos and stock were unfit for purpose from new (and pretty obviously so - just one look). They were changed out for something much more robust when the sets went through the Wolverton mod programme.

Yes - the TMS / comms cable which originally had a rectangular black / grey receptacle (which always looked flimsy), which was replaced with a round orange socket.

The multiple working cables are still the same - captive cables on the set, which plug into the sockets at the bottom corners of the windscreen on the loco.

 

[43096]

The multiple working cables are still the same - captive cables on the set, which plug into the sockets at the bottom corners of the windscreen on the loco.

Those are standard UIC-type sockets, so they are thoroughly proven in rail service.

 

[xotGD]

I'm assuming that Chiltern will get rid of First Class on these sets. Which would be nice.

 

[JonathanH]

I'm assuming that Chiltern will get rid of First Class on these sets. Which would be nice.

You would hope that they fit standard seats to the first class coach to make up for the loss in capacity relative to the Mark 3 sets. Better alignment of the seats to the windows wouldn't go amiss either.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Will be a shame to see the end of their smooth riding and comfortable Mk3's compared with the bone shaking Mk5!

 

[Kite159]

I doubt you will see much of an uplift in loco hauled sets due to complaints about excessive noise pollution from the 68s from Westminster council.

Good luck for Chiltern, no doubt the time spent sitting around doing bugger all would have caused more issues to the coaches

 

[stadler]

Does this mean that all of their current Chiltern 68s will be leaving along with the MK3 stock? So they will solely be using the ex TPE 68s with the MK5A stock?

 

[Nova1]

I would assume that would be the case. The mk3s are rather worn out although I think Chiltern have done a good job maintaining them.

 

[43096]

I doubt you will see much of an uplift in loco hauled sets due to complaints about excessive noise pollution from the 68s from Westminster council.

There will be an increase in loco hauled out of Marylebone. They haven’t leased the entire Mark 5A fleet to have 10 sets sat around!

 

[Zomboid]

Aren't we all missing the big issue here - what colour scheme will they apply? And will it have yellow ends?

 

[87015]

There will be an increase in loco hauled out of Marylebone. They haven’t leased the entire Mark 5A fleet to have 10 sets sat around!

Amazing isn't it, various posters spend 45+ pages of speculative thread shouting down, just like 379s to GN etc, that it can't happen and wont be happening and even when its signed wont give it up!

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Does this mean that all of their current Chiltern 68s will be leaving along with the MK3 stock?

Those are subleased from DRS and haven't been modified to work with Mk5a sets, so safe to assume that they will all be leaving.

 

[FrontSideBus]

I wonder if they will will retrim the intereor

I would assume that would be the case. The mk3s are rather worn out although I think Chiltern have done a good job maintaining them.

IMO the interiors still look quite modern in their grey colour scheme, even the IC70's!
I always thought that their plug doors were far better than the sliding door conversions favoured by everybody else too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

IMO the interiors still look quite modern in their grey colour scheme, even the IC70's!

They really don't, they look like something out of the Soviet Union.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

I always thought that their plug doors were far better than the sliding door conversions favoured by everybody else too.

They were a lot more expensive, and difficult to fit - hence the HST conversions using a version designed to be cheaper and easier to install.

 

[Zomboid]

What are the TPE 68s doing these days?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

What are the TPE 68s doing these days?

Some freight services, some are around the Mk5a (e.g. Longsight depot)

 

[43096]

Some freight services, some are around the Mk5a (e.g. Longsight depot)

And a large number are off lease.

 

[AlastairFraser]

They really don't, they look like something out of the Soviet Union.

You could describe it as an extremely comfortable socialist realism chic though

 

[Bikeman78]

There will be an increase in loco hauled out of Marylebone. They haven’t leased the entire Mark 5A fleet to have 10 sets sat around!

I agree, even if Transpennine did sometimes do that!

 

[SynthD]

Aren't we all missing the big issue here - what colour scheme will they apply? And will it have yellow ends?

The current locos are rented, and part yellow. The new locos will be owned, and currently have no yellow, but likely need repainting. The current carriages are Chiltern branded, and so the new ones must be too.

A networker styled loco wouldn’t need that altered door framing that the Southeastern had.

 

[The exile]

The new locos will be owned,

They will be leased- as per the tender.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

The current locos are rented, and part yellow. The new locos will be owned, and currently have no yellow, but likely need repainting. The current carriages are Chiltern branded, and so the new ones must be too.

A networker styled loco wouldn’t need that altered door framing that the Southeastern had.

The current ones are subleased from DRS (who lease them from Beacon Rail). The replacements will be leased direct from the ROSCO (Beacon Rail) - they won't be owned by Chiltern. They've had the TPE vinyls removed and are currently plain blue with yellow ends. The Mk5a sets have likewise had vinyls removed and are off-white with grey doors. Paintwork on locos and coaching sets looks fine from photos. They may well put new vinyls on them rather than paint them, and whether or not they keep the yellow ends will be up to Chiltern (or their DfT overlords).