New US traveler with questions

[Iskra]

Perhaps @Iskra can give specific guidance?

My suggestion would be to buy tickets and then call GWR for reservations. 03457 000 125 (using +44 instead of the zero on the front).

 

[marklyn]

My suggestion would be to buy tickets and then call GWR for reservations. 03457 000 125 (using +44 instead of the zero on the front).

Thanks. I've already purchased them through Scotrail and was told to "call next week", they should be able to reserve a table seat then.
I did go through the motions of pretending to buy a ticket on GWR and it got me all the way through the process but ultimately stated it could not make seat reservations on this service.
Thanks everyone.

 

[marklyn]

See the plans I uploaded for you last weekend. It’s the reason I strongly suggested the first class on the later train the next direct train. Far more 4 person sets of table seats in first class

@WesternLancer can you point me to a link with those plans? The screen grab you posted is pretty small.

 

[WesternLancer]

@WesternLancer can you point me to a link with those plans? The screen grab you posted is pretty small.

See my post #45. I uploaded these after getting them from the freedom of information link that someone posted earlier on. That’s as good as it gets. You can download and enlarge from the same link if you can’t do that with mine.

Sorry this is so frustrating. It’s embarrassingly bad.

And the image for the 170 train plan is especially poor. Also no seat numbers shown.

This is all another reason to travel on the next HST train. Basically any four seats reserved in that train booked at the same time should be 4 seats together. Because there are so many more groups of 4 on that train your probability of getting a group is much higher.

I guess reservation booking is not open yet hence you being told to wait a week or so.

 

[marklyn]

See my post #45. I uploaded these after getting them from the freedom of information link that someone posted earlier on. That’s as good as it gets. You can download and enlarge from the same link if you can’t do that with mine.

Sorry this is so frustrating. It’s embarrassingly bad.

And the image for the 170 train plan is especially poor. Also no seat numbers shown.

This is all another reason to travel on the next HST train. Basically any four seats reserved in that train booked at the same time should be 4 seats together. Because there are so many more groups of 4 on that train your probability of getting a group is much higher.

I guess reservation booking is not open yet hence you being told to wait a week or so.

I'm going to talk to my travel partner and see what he thinks. Leaving at 10:50 is perfect for the departure (no rushing in the morning) and perfect arrival time for getting checked into the Edinburgh Airbnb. But if we can make reservations on that HST and know where our seats are, that is attractive. Something to think about. I did find the original source for the image, it was just as bad there.

 

[WesternLancer]

I'm going to talk to my travel partner and see what he thinks. Leaving at 10:50 is perfect for the departure (no rushing in the morning) and perfect arrival time for getting checked into the Edinburgh Airbnb. But if we can make reservations on that HST and know where our seats are, that is attractive. Something to think about. I did find the original source for the image, it was just as bad there.

The HST is superior option in my view. Significantly so tho perhaps that is opinion.

The image is indeed poor.

I’ve just posted a new thread on the Traction and Rolling Stock part of the forum to see if anyone has better images for you. That bit of the forum will attract the attention more than this bit for layout plans I suspect.

 

[marklyn]

The HST is superior option in my view. Significantly so tho perhaps that is opinion.

The image is indeed poor.

I’ve just posted a new thread on the Traction and Rolling Stock part of the forum to see if anyone has better images for you. That bit of the forum will attract the attention more than this bit for layout plans I suspect.

Thanks WesternLancer. Everyone here has been so helpful and it is appreciated!

 

[Iskra]

While I find the Class 170 comfortable enough, @WesternLancer is correct that the HST is a far superior travel experience, a class above and some of the most comfortable available on the UK network.

 

[WesternLancer]

@WesternLancer can you point me to a link with those plans? The screen grab you posted is pretty small.

Potentially better carriage seating plan now on this thread for you @marklyn

ScotRail 170 seating plans

Hi all Anyone got any genuinely clear including seat numbers ScotRail class 170 seating plans? Or know where to find them or know if another toc 170 seat layout with a plan is the same? Decent ScotRail HST and 158 layout would also be of value. This is to help a US visitor planning a trip...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[marklyn]

Potentially better carriage seating plan now on this thread for you @marklyn

ScotRail 170 seating plans

Hi all Anyone got any genuinely clear including seat numbers ScotRail class 170 seating plans? Or know where to find them or know if another toc 170 seat layout with a plan is the same? Decent ScotRail HST and 158 layout would also be of value. This is to help a US visitor planning a trip...

www.railforums.co.uk

Yes, that looks pretty clear. Interesting that there are 3 types of 170 car (A,B,C). Also nice that there is a way to see table seats. Thanks!!!

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, that looks pretty clear. Interesting that there are 3 types of 170 car (A,B,C). Also nice that there is a way to see table seats. Thanks!!!

Glad someone had the info.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, that looks pretty clear. Interesting that there are 3 types of 170 car (A,B,C). Also nice that there is a way to see table seats. Thanks!!!

Hi @marklyn , I was wondering if you had any luck with the reservations you were seeking for your trip yet?

 

[marklyn]

Hi @marklyn , I was wondering if you had any luck with the reservations you were seeking for your trip yet?

Not yet... they told us to call back 'next week', which is this week so we plan on calling them at the end of this week.

 

[WesternLancer]

Not yet... they told us to call back 'next week', which is this week so we plan on calling them at the end of this week.

Thanks - good luck and keep us posted!

 

[marklyn]

Thanks - good luck and keep us posted!

Ok, so update...
After making the initial journey reservation a few weeks ago, we were told at that time we couldn't make seat reservations for first class table seats at that time, and to call back in a couple of weeks.
Today we called Scotrail and after some back and forth, the customer agent got us seats 36B, 35B, 36F, 35F (coach A). I looked at the previous posts regarding seat layout (below) and the closest seats in this configuration I could see was showing in coach, not first, although she did say they were in first. Any other seating maps or links posted in this thread that I could find didn't match up either.
Side question: she said we can go to a kiosk and use a seat conf number to print out the seat reservations but said something about a credit card but we wouldn't be charged. I can't be exact on the conversation, her Scottish accent was extremely thick so we had to ask for many repeats
I tried to see if she could give us a train number or some other way to be able to find this train and seating map but she either didn't understand what I was asking, so I must have been asking incorrectly.
We consider ourselves pretty savvy travelers but performing this task has humbled us <smile>.

 

[WesternLancer]

Ok, so update...
After making the initial journey reservation a few weeks ago, we were told at that time we couldn't make seat reservations for first class table seats at that time, and to call back in a couple of weeks.
Today we called Scotrail and after some back and forth, the customer agent got us seats 36B, 35B, 36F, 35F (coach A). I looked at the previous posts regarding seat layout (below) and the closest seats in this configuration I could see was showing in coach, not first, although she did say they were in first. Any other seating maps or links posted in this thread that I could find didn't match up either.
Side question: she said we can go to a kiosk and use a seat conf number to print out the seat reservations but said something about a credit card but we wouldn't be charged. I can't be exact on the conversation, her Scottish accent was extremely thick so we had to ask for many repeats
I tried to see if she could give us a train number or some other way to be able to find this train and seating map but she either didn't understand what I was asking, so I must have been asking incorrectly.
We consider ourselves pretty savvy travelers but performing this task has humbled us <smile>.

It’s embarrassing how poor the service is for you.

I can’t check the seat plan for you at the moment as my phone screen too small. Will look in due course.

You can print ticket slips from their vending machines for no charge by inserting a credit card. No idea if that works with a foreign credit card. But I’d just go to the staffed ticket counter at Inverness railway station and get them to print the reservation slips for you. Save you messing with an unfamiliar vending machine.

I’ve said it before as you know. But I’d be using the HST service with far more table seats for four people in first class.

 

[WesternLancer]

F and B on the seat numbers means forward and backwards (I didn’t realise ScotRail still used those codes as most uk trains have stopped using them ) with seat 36f facing seat 36b so that suggests to me these seats are four seats at a table even without checking a seating plan.

 

[marklyn]

It’s embarrassing how poor the service is for you.

I can’t check the seat plan for you at the moment as my phone screen too small. Will look in due course.

You can print ticket slips from their vending machines for no charge by inserting a credit card. No idea if that works with a foreign credit card. But I’d just go to the staffed ticket counter at Inverness railway station and get them to print the reservation slips for you. Save you messing with an unfamiliar vending machine.

I’ve said it before as you know. But I’d be using the HST service with far more table seats for four people in first class.

I really don't think it's a poor service issue, but really more of different transport systems than what we're used to. We've booked train travel in various countries and sometimes it's more of a straight-forward thing where every thing is laid out like an airline res and sometimes there's some assumptions on our part. This trip is unique because it's not just the two of us, in that, if everything wasn't as it appeared we know we'd find a way we'd be sitting together (somewhere). Since it's 4 of us and our two traveler friends are relying on our research for planning each leg, it was really important for us to sit together. In 4+ hours of travel, we can cover a lot of ground while enjoying the views
We considered changing to the other train which would have been straightforward and looks to be easier but this time frame became very important in regard to not getting to EDI too early and not having to get up to early to catch a train, etc.
The res agent assured me we were in FC and assured me we'd be in two seats facing each other, so I can live with that.

 

[WesternLancer]

I really don't think it's a poor service issue, but really more of different transport systems than what we're used to. We've booked train travel in various countries and sometimes it's more of a straight-forward thing where every thing is laid out like an airline res and sometimes there's some assumptions on our part. This trip is unique because it's not just the two of us, in that, if everything wasn't as it appeared we know we'd find a way we'd be sitting together (somewhere). Since it's 4 of us and our two traveler friends are relying on our research for planning each leg, it was really important for us to sit together. In 4+ hours of travel, we can cover a lot of ground while enjoying the views
We considered changing to the other train which would have been straightforward and looks to be easier but this time frame became very important in regard to not getting to EDI too early and not having to get up to early to catch a train, etc.
The res agent assured me we were in FC and assured me we'd be in two seats facing each other, so I can live with that.

Hi there

Just occurred to me to revisit this now it's nearer the time in case any of what follows is of help

On the basis that it's nearer your travel time I work on the basis that although you can't be 100% certain, what is happening on recent days on the route is likely to be a good guide to what you will experience on your travel date.

You can look at that here

Realtime Trains | Search

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

or for Inverness recently as here for 22 July

Realtime Trains | Departures from Inverness between 0600 and 2000 on 22/07/2025

Train information at Inverness between 0600 and 2000 on 22/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

before studying these pages it's worth knowing about 2 numbers to help you track things
- The train number (on the day and for previous days you can see the actual train used for the service - in the little picture at the top of the column for the train eg 158722 (consider this like a car license plate number for the specific train - with the first 3 digits the type of train - so in that case the type is a 158 train

and
- the Train Service reporting number eg the 10.50 Inverness to Edinburgh is train reporting number 1B26 (same number for that time train service each day at that time I think)

Here it is for that day

Realtime Trains | 1B26 1050 Inverness to Edinburgh | 22/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 1B26 1050 departure from Inverness to Edinburgh on 22/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

So I can tell from this the 10.50 train to Edinburgh left from platform 3 at Inverness that day (and probably does the same every day if things go to plan) and was made up of 5 carriages made up of a 3 carriage 170 train (with 1st class) and a 2 carriage 158 train coupled together - you cant walk between the two types of trans (only within them) because of their different designs - obviously a nuisance for passengers and staff but there we are

From the general schedule you can see that what happens is

- at 10.29 the 3 carriage 170 train arrives from Glasgow on Platform 3 and discharges its passengers. I think it is then coupled to the 2 carriage 158 train.

- after the coupling process of the 2 trains on platform 3 the staff will likely unlock the train doors to allow people to board and take their seats

So with you having reservations it should not be too much of an issue - but if I was wanting to be sure of my 4 seats together I would get to the station a bit before or around 10.29 and see if I could get on to the platform or the barrier line ticket check if they have one

You are then well placed to be first on board and into your seats.

Note: all of this is based on my deductions as I have not seen what actually happens at Inverness for that train - but I suspect others here on the forum know what the usual procedure is in Inverness and may be able to correct me.

Hope it helps with a bit of background on what to expect

Of course if you turn up 5 minutes before departure time - with reservations, and someone is sitting in your seats, you should be able to politely ask them to move for the 4 of you.

 

[marklyn]

Hi there

Just occurred to me to revisit this now it's nearer the time in case any of what follows is of help

On the basis that it's nearer your travel time I work on the basis that although you can't be 100% certain, what is happening on recent days on the route is likely to be a good guide to what you will experience on your travel date.

You can look at that here

Realtime Trains | Search

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

or for Inverness recently as here for 22 July

Realtime Trains | Departures from Inverness between 0600 and 2000 on 22/07/2025

Train information at Inverness between 0600 and 2000 on 22/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

before studying these pages it's worth knowing about 2 numbers to help you track things
- The train number (on the day and for previous days you can see the actual train used for the service - in the little picture at the top of the column for the train eg 158722 (consider this like a car license plate number for the specific train - with the first 3 digits the type of train - so in that case the type is a 158 train

and
- the Train Service reporting number eg the 10.50 Inverness to Edinburgh is train reporting number 1B26 (same number for that time train service each day at that time I think)

Here it is for that day

Realtime Trains | 1B26 1050 Inverness to Edinburgh | 22/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 1B26 1050 departure from Inverness to Edinburgh on 22/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

So I can tell from this the 10.50 train to Edinburgh left from platform 3 at Inverness that day (and probably does the same every day if things go to plan) and was made up of 5 carriages made up of a 3 carriage 170 train (with 1st class) and a 2 carriage 158 train coupled together - you cant walk between the two types of trans (only within them) because of their different designs - obviously a nuisance for passengers and staff but there we are

From the general schedule you can see that what happens is

- at 10.29 the 3 carriage 170 train arrives from Glasgow on Platform 3 and discharges its passengers. I think it is then coupled to the 2 carriage 158 train.

- after the coupling process of the 2 trains on platform 3 the staff will likely unlock the train doors to allow people to board and take their seats

So with you having reservations it should not be too much of an issue - but if I was wanting to be sure of my 4 seats together I would get to the station a bit before or around 10.29 and see if I could get on to the platform or the barrier line ticket check if they have one

You are then well placed to be first on board and into your seats.

Note: all of this is based on my deductions as I have not seen what actually happens at Inverness for that train - but I suspect others here on the forum know what the usual procedure is in Inverness and may be able to correct me.

Hope it helps with a bit of background on what to expect

Of course if you turn up 5 minutes before departure time - with reservations, and someone is sitting in your seats, you should be able to politely ask them to move for the 4 of you.

This was so nice of you to remember and to post this information. I can't look at it this second because I'm out for a few hours, but I look forward to digging deep into it when I get home. Thank you again you,

 

[WesternLancer]

This was so nice of you to remember and to post this information. I can't look at it this second because I'm out for a few hours, but I look forward to digging deep into it when I get home. Thank you again you,

You are welcome. Hope it makes sense. Apols if the links are a bit unfamiliar but I think you’ll get the sense of them. It’s basically a schedule of every train arriving and departing any station. And then linked through to the schedule of every individual train as it runs on its journey from start to finish.

Shows how well it keeps to time during its journey atbye various points en route (not just places it stops at if you use the detailed option. The simple option may be enough info)

 

[marklyn]

You've helped the quality of my trip with the information you and everyone else has provided. Admittedly, UK train system is a little confusing for us, more so than the European train system in general. I hope no offense was received.

 

[WesternLancer]

You've helped the quality of my trip with the information you and everyone else has provided. Admittedly, UK train system is a little confusing for us, more so than the European train system in general. I hope no offense was received.

Interesting to read your comparison thoughts.

 

[marklyn]

You are welcome. Hope it makes sense. Apols if the links are a bit unfamiliar but I think you’ll get the sense of them. It’s basically a schedule of every train arriving and departing any station. And then linked through to the schedule of every individual train as it runs on its journey from start to finish.

Shows how well it keeps to time during its journey atbye various points en route (not just places it stops at if you use the detailed option. The simple option may be enough info)

Well we're in Europe and blowing and going so I need to make some downtime to digest your information. We did actually call Scotrail before we left the US and had a difficult conversation with an agent, trying to emphasize we'd want table seating for 4 in first class since that's the tickets we purchased. She finally came back with 36B 35B 36F 35F for the seating and I made the connection F=Forward, B=Backwards. But after further research (googling and various AI) everything is pointing to that being standard class because of the high seat numbers. She may have just been fed up with us and put us in standard at a 4 seat table
I should have some down time tomorrow to dig further. It's not the end of the world if it doesn't work out but it is interesting and almost a little fun learning about the UK train system.
On a side note we've taken 3 trips in the past few days on Eurostar trains. You really get detailed info on seating arrangements/diagrams with them but we're paying a more premium price I guess.

 

[signed]

We did actually call Scotrail before we left the US and had a difficult conversation with an agent, trying to emphasize we'd want table seating for 4 in first class since that's the tickets we purchased. She finally came back with 36B 35B 36F 35F for the seating and I made the connection F=Forward, B=Backwards. But after further research (googling and various AI) everything is pointing to that being standard class because of the high seat numbers. She may have just been fed up with us and put us in standard at a 4 seat table
I should have some down time tomorrow to dig further. It's not the end of the world if it doesn't work out but it is interesting and almost a little fun learning about the UK train system.

35 and 36 are indeed standard class seats on HSTs from my post 8 and on 170s as well on post 105

 

[WesternLancer]

Well we're in Europe and blowing and going so I need to make some downtime to digest your information. We did actually call Scotrail before we left the US and had a difficult conversation with an agent, trying to emphasize we'd want table seating for 4 in first class since that's the tickets we purchased. She finally came back with 36B 35B 36F 35F for the seating and I made the connection F=Forward, B=Backwards. But after further research (googling and various AI) everything is pointing to that being standard class because of the high seat numbers. She may have just been fed up with us and put us in standard at a 4 seat table
I should have some down time tomorrow to dig further. It's not the end of the world if it doesn't work out but it is interesting and almost a little fun learning about the UK train system.
On a side note we've taken 3 trips in the past few days on Eurostar trains. You really get detailed info on seating arrangements/diagrams with them but we're paying a more premium price I guess.

Maybe when you get to Inverness pop into the station ticket office to speak to a staff member face to face (or indeed any other ScotRail staffed station if you are elsewhere in Scotland or even any station in uk) show your first class ticket and ask them to make the reservation correctly.

Also get to station early eg 10.30 am for when in bound train arrives to get pick of seats unreserved.

Or fall back is use the next train the HST which has far more first class seats overall and far more groups of four first class seats so massively increases your chance of what you want seating wise than the 170 train with its much smaller first class area.

 

[marklyn]

Maybe when you get to Inverness pop into the station ticket office to speak to a staff member face to face (or indeed any other ScotRail staffed station if you are elsewhere in Scotland or even any station in uk) show your first class ticket and ask them to make the reservation correctly.

Also get to station early eg 10.30 am for when in bound train arrives to get pick of seats unreserved.

Or fall back is use the next train the HST which has far more first class seats overall and far more groups of four first class seats so massively increases your chance of what you want seating wise than the 170 train with its much smaller first class area.

Today we have a down day so I plan on calling them again. If that doesn't work we arrive in Aberdeen (flight) in 5 days, I will go to the office there. Thanks WL

 

[trebor79]

You could of course just get to the station a littler early so you are first on board, and sit at any unreserved seat in first class and just forget about the seat reservations.

 

[marklyn]

You could of course just get to the station a littler early so you are first on board, and sit at any unreserved seat in first class and just forget about the seat reservations.

yes, it appears we will have to do just that. It's just that we thought we could get reserved seats in FC for the 4 of us and were told we could so when we purchased FC tickets in May, but to call back closer to the trip. We are 3 weeks out and are now told by an agent there are no reservations in FC on this route.
I think my apprehension is whether or not the train will be crowded and the 4 of us cannot sit together but I think this train starts in Inverness, so maybe it won't be a problem.

 

[WesternLancer]

Today we have a down day so I plan on calling them again. If that doesn't work we arrive in Aberdeen (flight) in 5 days, I will go to the office there. Thanks WL

My instinct is staff in offices will be better than call centre but calling still worth a try if you can get through