Validity of higher priced routing when ticket type is different

[Shotton]

Hi all,

I am looking to travel from Shotton to Blackpool North over a couple of days.The two available fares are as follows:

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(A more expensive anytime return, routed "via Liverpool")

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(Cheaper off-peak return, routed ".", restriction 8A)

I am looking to travel via Liverpool on the outbound, stopping overnight somewhere on the Ormskirk line (a valid route for Shotton -> Blackpool North I'm pretty sure), but I'd like to potentially return via Warrington.

Is it still possible to use the validity of a higher priced route on a lower priced any permitted route, or obtain a zero fare excess to route "." for the return when the ticket types are different? I would also be benefitting from the validity beyond one day of the anytime return (and the lack of break of journey being permitted on the off-peak return), unsure if this changes things.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Watershed]

Is it still possible to use the validity of a higher priced route on a lower priced any permitted route

Yes, see this excerpt from the Routeing Guide Instructions:

Where the fare specifies a particular route, there will be restrictions in the fare routes data that will affect thee routes listed in the Guide which pass through the station shown in the route description. The National Routeing Guide may be used to find out how to reach the station shown in the route description. Where there are other permitted routes, these may also be used for the same journey provided the same or a lower fare applies.

or obtain a zero fare excess to route "." for the return when the ticket types are different?

A zero fare excess isn't needed because of the above rule. It's often hard to obtain zero fare excesses so I wouldn't bother trying.

 

[Shotton]

Thank you - I had read that. Does that rule still apply even when the lower priced route does not have an equivalent ticket type?

 

[MrJeeves]

Thank you - I had read that. Does that rule still apply even when the lower priced route does not have an equivalent ticket type?

It doesn't say that isn't the case.

In any event, as you pointed out in your post, all that could be required is an excess to that ticket, which would cost £0.00, and you'd be very unlikely to ever get issued it in the first place since it has got no additional fare attached.

As long as you're comparing single vs single and return vs return, if a cheaper ticket is available, it's valid via that route too.

You might consider it easier to buy the cheaper ticket, and an excess up to the Anytime Return "via Liverpool", though, as that excess would be quite easy to obtain in comparison.

 

[Shotton]

Thanks - that's pretty definitive. I'll be traveling at times when there is no ticket office open in Shotton, so I'll see what I can obtain. Don't particularly want to buy the cheaper ticket and not be able to get an excess for it that evening.

 

[Watershed]

The excess could simply be obtained on the train without penalty; see NRCoT 9.5.2:

Where you: ...
9.5.2 are using a route for which your Ticket is not valid;
you will be charged the difference between the fare that you have paid and the lowest price Ticket that is valid for the train you are using.

You can also get the excess 'down the line' at a ticket office in Liverpool or Blackpool on your outward journey.

 

[Shotton]

The excess could simply be obtained on the train without penalty; see NRCoT 9.5.2:


You can also get the excess 'down the line' at a ticket office in Liverpool or Blackpool on your outward journey.

Thank you. This is good to know - when I've needed a change of route excess I've always got one before commencing before.

 

[jawr256]

If the OP buys the lower priced ticket first, wouldn't the required excess be a change of ticket type, rather than a change of route? Since via Liverpool should already be permitted on route '.' and the issue is instead with the overnight break of journey that is ostensibly prohibited by restriction 8A on the off-peak return.

So instead you'd be relying on

Where you: 9.5.3 break your journey when you are not permitted to do so; you will be charged the difference between the fare that you have paid and the lowest price Ticket that is valid for the train you are using

But if trying to obtain the excess on Day 2 there is a potential point of argument over the following term of the Off-peak return (https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/tickets/bfr/)

Overnight break of journey - if the journey cannot be completed on the same day, the ticket may be used to continue the journey on the following day.

because a) you may be challenged that you could have completed the journey on day 1 and b) since restriction 8A prohibits break of journey, it could be argued that the ticket has already expired after day 1.

So I should think it would be safest to obtain any such excess on day 1.

 

[Watershed]

If the OP buys the lower priced ticket first, wouldn't the required excess be a change of ticket type, rather than a change of route? Since via Liverpool should already be permitted on route '.' and the issue is instead with the overnight break of journey that is ostensibly prohibited by restriction 8A on the off-peak return.

So instead you'd be relying on

But if trying to obtain the excess on Day 2 there is a potential point of argument over the following term of the Off-peak return (https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/tickets/bfr/)

because a) you may be challenged that you could have completed the journey on day 1 and b) since restriction 8A prohibits break of journey, it could be argued that the ticket has already expired after day 1.

So I should think it would be safest to obtain any such excess on day 1.

Yes, a fair point. I'd overlooked the fact that the route "." fare is the cheaper one. Bizarre when the cheaper fare is less restrictive (in most senses, but not in terms of the overnight break of journey)!