Interrail pass misuse in GB

[mad_rich]

(Asking here, rather than International, because it's more about how things work here in GB. But feel free to move this thread.)

On various Interrail groups and forums I'm in, we often get the same question popping up. Something like:

GB resident: "I've got a spare inbound/ outbound day and no plans to go abroad. Can I use it to visit my Auntie in Cornwall?"

Somebody usually answers "Yes it's fine. The app will let you" or "Just pretend you're flying abroad the same evening".

My stock answer is usually something along the lines of this:

It's very clear in the Conditions of Use that you can't do this. Inbound and outbound days are only valid for a journey to or from an airport/ port/ border. This is to protect revenue for domestic travel and ultimately the only reason the pass can be such good value.

In reality the app won't stop you from doing it, and the ticket inspector probably doesn't care, but them's the rules in black and white.

If you do this, you are traveling outside the validity of your pass, which could be bad news for you, and/ or for everybody else if they tighten the rules in the future.

See section 4.3 here

https://www.interrail.eu/content/dam/_new-structure/doc/terms/conditions_of_use_version_13.pdf

What could be the consequences if someone were suspected/ found to be using a pass outside it's validity like this?

Can a ticket inspector require proof of international travel?

Can they report the pass to Interrail as being misused, or refuse to accept it?

Or is it just for Interrail to worry about, rather than the ticket inspector? (In reality I suspect Interrail would rather turn a blind eye!)

I'd like something concrete to quote to people. It's their choice of they want to use a pass like this, and indeed they'll probably get away with it 99% of the time. But I think it's a shame, and could result in GB withdrawing from Interrail or putting onerous conditions on its use.

 

[Watershed]

The Interrail conditions are indeed clear that it must be a jurney to or from an airport, port or border. However it does not state that you must actually be travelling abroad, or that you must travel to your nearest airport/port/border, or that you need to carry proof of international travel.

Therefore, so long as you are even moderately clued-up it is trivial to justify most plausible journeys (should anyone) as being to/from such a location. For example just about anywhere to London could count as being on your way to/from the Eurostar or a London airport. Similarly travel from somewhere to Cornwall could be to/from Exeter or Newquay airport, Plymouth port, the Scilly Isles ferry... you see where I'm going with this.

For several of those, if you were actually travelling abroad it would be plausible that you might not buy your international ticket until you get there (e.g. a ferry that accepts walk-up foot passengers, or hoping to get a last minute Eurostar seat). The whole point of an Interrail pass it that it gives you the flexibility to be spontaneous, after all. And if you're on your way back, you may well have discarded your boarding pass.

I have probably used 10 or 15 Interrail passes in the last decade and have never once been asked to justify my domestic travel days. That's not to say it can't happen, of course, but it is extremely unlikely. Even just being asked for ID is rare within Britain (but much more common in some continental countries, especially Switzerland).

The consequences for not travelling in accordance with the wording of the Conditions of Use is that you don't have a valid ticket, so all of the usual penalties would apply - as with being ticketless for any other reason.

 

[mad_rich]

However it does not state that you must actually be travelling abroad, or that you must travel to your nearest airport/port/border, or that you need to carry proof of international travel.

Therefore, so long as you are even moderately clued-up it is trivial to justify most plausible journeys (should anyone) as being to/from such a location.

That's a good point. I hadn't spotted that.

Clearly the spirit of the rules is that you should be leaving the country, but if you want to end your journey at Dover or Prestwick, that satisfies the letter of the law!

Am I being unfair in suggesting that such behaviour is 'not on' and should be discouraged/ punished?

As above, I'd hate for the very generous conditions of the pass to go away because people are using it to visit Aunties in Cornwall, or commuting to London.

 

[Gloster]

I would say that you are in breach of the regulations. Regulation 4.3.2 refers to ‘your outbound journey and your inbound journey’. I believe that it is implicit in this that the first journey is to continue with the pass and the second is to follow on from it, even if there is a break for the intermediate means of transport.

 

[Watershed]

That's a good point. I hadn't spotted that.

Clearly the spirit of the rules is that you should be leaving the country, but if you want to end your journey at Dover or Prestwick, that satisfies the letter of the law!

Am I being unfair in suggesting that such behaviour is 'not on' and should be discouraged/ punished?

As above, I'd hate for the very generous conditions of the pass to go away because people are using it to visit Aunties in Cornwall, or commuting to London.

At the end of the day, it's permitted under the current rules. If Interrail want to change the rules to require you to carry proof of international travel, so be it. The conditions have changed over time. But I can't see how it is 'not on' to encourage someone to use their ticket in a way that is permitted.

The pass' validity won't be changed because of individual examples. It would have to be far more mainstream for that to happen. I don't know what motivated the threatened British withdrawal from Interrail if that's what you are thinking back to, but I suspect it had more to do with revenue apportionment, for example - a problem that is now largely solved by the digital travel diaries.

I would say that you are in breach of the regulations. Regulation 4.3.2 refers to ‘your outbound journey and your inbound journey’. I believe that it is implicit in this that the first journey is to continue with the pass and the second is to follow on from it, even if there is a break for the intermediate means of transport.

The "inbound/outbound journeys" can be undertaken at any point during the pass' validity. The outbound journey doesn't have to take place before the inbound journey, and indeed these two days can be the last days used. That is the beauty of Interrail passes; they are completely flexible - you can use them for multiple trips abroad during their period of validity (I often do).

 

[The exile]

However you interpret it, you could hardly use it to go and visit Auntie in Cornwall and come back (unless you had both travel days available and were able to stay long enough to be convincing that you had actually gone abroad in the interim. Suspicious also if Auntie lives in Barnstaple (I know, Devon!)

 

[30907]

Most recently (I frequent the same group/s and am not the only member that does) someone has wanted to so a day return trip which seems to me highly risky.

 

[redreni]

Am I being unfair in suggesting that such behaviour is 'not on' and should be discouraged/ punished?

As above, I'd hate for the very generous conditions of the pass to go away because people are using it to visit Aunties in Cornwall, or commuting to London.

I think it's a misunderstanding of the small p politics surrounding this sort of subsidised product to think the entire thing would be withdrawn because people are using the ticket in a way not intended. It could plausibly be withdrawn, but it wouldn't be for this reason.

This sort of thing may serve as a helpful pretext for anybody who (for other reasons) wanted to scrap the Interrail pass, though. If people are asking and being told it's okay on the official forum, it might not be a bad thing from that point of view that somebody is posting there to say it's not allowed and to discourage it. Then again, it sounds like that's not necessarily the most helpful advice, given the rule they're proposing to break seems almost wholly unenforced and unenforceable.

And if the railway imagines it is losing the revenue from the fare that would otherwise be due for this type of journey, I suspect the truth is they're losing very little, because in the vast majority of cases if the journey to see auntie can't be wangled on the Interrail pass, it's not happening. Not by train, anyway. Maybe some revenue might be being extracted from Megabus etc.

 

[30907]

This sort of thing may serve as a helpful pretext for anybody who (for other reasons) wanted to scrap the Interrail pass, though. If people are asking and being told it's okay on the official forum,

Is that happening? The example I referred to was on a FB group - I suspect from the timings mad_rich was prompted by the same one.

 

[styles]

That's a good point. I hadn't spotted that.

Clearly the spirit of the rules is that you should be leaving the country, but if you want to end your journey at Dover or Prestwick, that satisfies the letter of the law!

Which I don't necessarily object to, given that the operating companies often operate as close to the letter of the law as possible when it suits them, e.g. delay repay, onwards travel during disruption, etc. I would love for us to embrace the spirit of the law and the contracts more, but the industry can't have it both ways.

Am I being unfair in suggesting that such behaviour is 'not on' and should be discouraged/ punished?

I wouldn't say it's unfair to enforce the rules as they are. Though as we established above, the rules allow for a lot of journeys to be made which aren't actually going to involve leaving the country. It would therefore be, in my view, unfair to tick someone off for heading to Hull without the intention of going onwards to Rotterdam, because strictly speaking they are complying with the terms.

As above, I'd hate for the very generous conditions of the pass to go away because people are using it to visit Aunties in Cornwall, or commuting to London.

I think here is my main point - the abuse of such tickets is likely to be so insignificant that I probably wouldn't spend my time on it. We just have to hope somebody doesn't make it a famous 'hack' on TikTok, at which point it will become commonplace, will be abused, and will lead to the withdrawal. Until that day (which hopefully doesn't come), I'm not sure I'd bother much with getting into a dispute with a passenger about whether their journey to Hull or Rosyth meets the conditions. It's also very hard to prove because I could just say well I'm going to Hull on Hull Trains to then head north to Edinburgh for the airport, or something. It seems like it could waste a whack of time and not even be a 'safe' penalty if action were taken.

 

[30907]

A small extra point: the rules about home country travel apply to all participant countries not just GB.

 

[The exile]

A small extra point: the rules about home country travel apply to all participant countries not just GB.

Which puts the average UK traveller in a much better position than (say) a German planning a multi leg journey through Europe. Other than visiting Ireland, once you’ve set off from the UK you’re unlikely to want / need to transit through it until you come home.

 

[mad_rich]

@30907 - yes I suspect it's the same Facebook group!

A small extra point: the rules about home country travel apply to all participant countries not just GB.

Indeed. I'm only asking about GB residents on here, since you all have the expertise. But I see the same broad question from residents of other countries.

And sometimes a slightly different version from Germany residents. Often it's "Wherever I go, I need to pass through Germany even if I don't want to stop there, this isn't fair". And they do have a point!

 

[trei2k]

Taking another perspective:

If I have an Interrail pass and it has an unused outbound/inbound trip left and I don't use it, I'm guessing from a revenue allocation perspective, wouldn't the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) then forego that if it is not used? As we know, the marginal cost of carrying passengers is almost zero.

I'm aware the revenue allocation by interrail isn't public, but I'm assuming the digital diary helps with that these days.

 

[mad_rich]

Taking another perspective:

If I have an Interrail pass and it has an unused outbound/inbound trip left and I don't use it, I'm guessing from a revenue allocation perspective, wouldn't the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) then forego that if it is not used? As we know, the marginal cost of carrying passengers is almost zero.

I'm aware the revenue allocation by interrail isn't public, but I'm assuming the digital diary helps with that these days.

It's more about the opportunity cost for RDG, isn't it?

If they let me use my unused day to travel where I want, they're missing out on £100 or £200 I might spend on a Newcastle-London ticket (and nobody is using their days for a £5 trip). They'd probably rather turn down the revenue from 10 pass users for just one ticket purchase.

 

[Gaelan]

The Interrail conditions are indeed clear that it must be a jurney to or from an airport, port or border. However it does not state that you must actually be travelling abroad, or that you must travel to your nearest airport/port/border, or that you need to carry proof of international travel.

The precise wording is this:

• Your outbound journey can be used to travel from any location in your Country of Residence to the border, an airport or other port.
• Your inbound journey can be used to travel from the border, an airport or other port back to any location in your Country of Residence.

Interrail could quite reasonably argue that to be traveling "to" (not "towards") a place, you must end up there - so I could use an outbound day to get from Edinburgh to Heathrow (or perhaps more conveniently London City Airport), but not to central London without ever going to an airport. And I'd have to then use a non-Interrail ticket to get to my actual destination in London.

(I suppose you could argue that you were traveling to the "border" at St Pancras, or that the St Pancras juxtaposed controls formed a sort of "other port". But I think that's a bit of a stretch.)

Admittedly, of course, if I claim on my train to Kings Cross that I intend to then travel from Kings Cross to Heathrow, buying my plane ticket when I get there, there's little the on-train staff could do to prove me wrong, short of hiring a private investigator to follow me after I get off the train. And I, too, have almost never had on-train staff show any interest in enforcing this restriction. (A GC guard did once ask me if I was heading home - but I think she was making conversation rather than trying to enforce anything.) But plenty of fare restrictions are unenforceable in practice - we wouldn't encourage someone to reuse a paper ticket between ungated stations, for example!

 

[mad_rich]

plenty of fare restrictions are unenforceable in practice - we wouldn't encourage someone to reuse a paper ticket between ungated stations, for example!

Yes, I think that's very similar.

The discussion quickly turns to 'will I get away with it?' (answer: probably), rather than 'is it allowed?'.

 

[AlterEgo]

This kind of stuff is just an occupational hazard for Interrail. It's not my business if other people want to take less plausible journeys or use a free day of first class validity.