Penalty fare advice

[conduct]

Hi all, hoping that someone might be able to give me a bit of advice as to where I stand here - although I do imagine I probably haven't got much hope.

Had an improbable incident leading to the issue of a penalty fair. My partner had purchased both of our tickets on her phone using a network railcard discount. We were running to get on the 18:17 LNW from Euston to Leighton Buzzard which was departing imminently, I got on and the doors closed between us. Not battery on my phone to contact her or transfer my ticket (not that it would have mattered as we need to travel together for the railcard discount) and nobody I could find on board to explain to. Revenue protection met me at Leighton. I explained what had happened and that my partner would likely be following on the 18:47 with both tickets if I could wait on the platform for her, but was told to just take the penalty and appeal it based on what I had explained. My partner then passed through revenue protection at Leighton around 30 mins later with her ticket, leaving mine still unscanned.

Well aware that I've been caught without a valid ticket and thus liable for a penalty fare, so my appeal was (as advised by the revenue protection officer) a plea for discretion to be shown based on the unfortunate circumstances, while acknowledging my wrongdoing. I uploaded both tickets, one scanned at the time I indicated and one unscanned which was mine to support this. This appeal has now been rejected with the below text:

"The Appeals Service (AS) is independent of West Midlands. AS provide a service which gives the recipient of a Penalty Fare
Notice the opportunity to dispute the issue. To ensure consistency, AS follow a Code of Practice compliant with the criteria set
out in the Railways (Penalty Fares) (Amendment) Regulations 2022 when making assessments of Penalty Fare Notice appeals.
All transport companies operating a Penalty Fare scheme display warning notices which advise transport users of their
obligations and the potential consequences in failing to meet these.

The transport user is required to show on request a valid ticket.? It is the production of the mobile ticket that permits travel and,
as such, tickets or receipts produced at a later date in support of an appeal will not be considered.

It remains the responsibility of the passenger to ensure that their mobile phone is fully charged before commencing their
journey.

On assessment your appeal has been declined, however you have the right to re-appeal."

Which does seem pretty cut and dry - I guess my question is if anybody has had any luck with an appeal for discretion in a penalty fair situation like this, or if there are any other suggestions for a further appeal?

Many thanks

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all, hoping that someone might be able to give me a bit of advice as to where I stand here - although I do imagine I probably haven't got much hope.

Had an improbable incident leading to the issue of a penalty fair. My partner had purchased both of our tickets on her phone using a network railcard discount. We were running to get on the 18:17 LNW from Euston to Leighton Buzzard which was departing imminently, I got on and the doors closed between us. Not battery on my phone to contact her or transfer my ticket (not that it would have mattered as we need to travel together for the railcard discount) and nobody I could find on board to explain to. Revenue protection met me at Leighton. I explained what had happened and that my partner would likely be following on the 18:47 with both tickets if I could wait on the platform for her, but was told to just take the penalty and appeal it based on what I had explained. My partner then passed through revenue protection at Leighton around 30 mins later with her ticket, leaving mine still unscanned.

Well aware that I've been caught without a valid ticket and thus liable for a penalty fare, so my appeal was (as advised by the revenue protection officer) a plea for discretion to be shown based on the unfortunate circumstances, while acknowledging my wrongdoing. I uploaded both tickets, one scanned at the time I indicated and one unscanned which was mine to support this. This appeal has now been rejected with the below text:

"The Appeals Service (AS) is independent of West Midlands. AS provide a service which gives the recipient of a Penalty Fare
Notice the opportunity to dispute the issue. To ensure consistency, AS follow a Code of Practice compliant with the criteria set
out in the Railways (Penalty Fares) (Amendment) Regulations 2022 when making assessments of Penalty Fare Notice appeals.
All transport companies operating a Penalty Fare scheme display warning notices which advise transport users of their
obligations and the potential consequences in failing to meet these.

The transport user is required to show on request a valid ticket.? It is the production of the mobile ticket that permits travel and,
as such, tickets or receipts produced at a later date in support of an appeal will not be considered.

It remains the responsibility of the passenger to ensure that their mobile phone is fully charged before commencing their
journey.

On assessment your appeal has been declined, however you have the right to re-appeal."

Which does seem pretty cut and dry - I guess my question is if anybody has had any luck with an appeal for discretion in a penalty fair situation like this, or if there are any other suggestions for a further appeal?

Many thanks

I think an appeal would be a long shot but there is no harm in taking it to all 3 stages of the appeal (we often find only the 3rd stage results in the level of detail required to have much chance of success)

Do not miss the prompt payment discount deadline

If an appeal is successful you would be refunded.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2025 ==

Here's some advice from @Hadders on another recent thread (different train company) that you might find useful as some parallels although not the same scenario that led to the Penalty Fare

This is an unfortunate incident.

Legally speaking you must possess a valid ticket before you board the train (there are some exceptions but they're not going to be relevent here). Unfortunately, however inadvertent it was, you were unable to show a valid ticket which is a criminal offence. Northern are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. Instead, Northern have decided to deal with this by charging you a Penalty Fare which is a higher than normal fare charged to people who make an 'honest' mistake.

Ordinarily, a Penalty Fare is an appropriate remedy for this sort of thing and, although you are entirled to appeal up to three times, I would not expect an appeal to succeed. There might be some very technical reasons why the Penalty Fare is invalid, often related to signage or errors in the notice being completed. An appeal for these reasons would normally only succeed at stage 3 and such appeals must be written in very precise, legalistic terms in order to have any chance of success.

I'll let other forum members, who are more expert in this area than me, advise on a 'technical' appeal.

 

[furlong]

1) How long ago was this? Ask for the relevant CCTV to be retained if it's not too late, to show "the doors closed between us". Which platform number was it at Euston? (Or what date and people can look this up.)
2) What time were the two tickets purchased and what precise tickets were they i.e. how much exactly?
3) Did you wait at the station for your partner or leave?
4) If you upload a copy of the Penalty Fare Notice (redacting personal details etc.) people can check for any further grounds for appeal.

 

[conduct]

Thank you both for helping.

Incident was 17/06 and the train I was on was the 18:17 , I can certainly look back at what platform it was on and if they retain any CCTV to corroborate my story

Tickets were Anytime Day Singles at a Railcard price of £13.90 purchased before departure through Trainline as we were making our way towards the train.

I nipped home to quickly grab a battery pack before coming straight back to collect her

I've attached a copy of the FPN receipt I got from the revenue protection officer

 

[Titfield]

Very much doubt they would have kept the CCTV for over 1 month since the event.

 

[soil]

there's not a clear ground for success as you failed to produce a ticket when required, but there's no harm in appealing again

 

[Haywain]

I can certainly look back at what platform it was on and if they retain any CCTV to corroborate my story

Over a month later there is next to no chance if CCTV still being available. It usually kept for a maximum of 28 days.

 

[enyoueffsea]

It’s a fairly cut and dry case. You can appeal but your appeal is basically “I was correctly given a penalty fare but do you fancy being kind and letting me off?”.

Your only legitimate chance of an appeal succeeding is if the notice has been completed incorrectly. If you post a copy of it with your details redacted, those much more knowledgeable than me on this subject will look over it.

 

[furlong]

Please tell us the actual purchase time of the tickets. It is important. In an appeal such as yours you need to cover all bases and leave no gaps for suspicion of dishonesty to lurk.

Were there any ticket checks in operation prior to boarding? Ticket gates in use? Were the tickets scanned?

Once you know the platform number, take a look at the Penalty Fares signage there and then you can at least include in your appeal an additional ground that it doesn't meet the requirements of the regulations - incorrect wording (posters at Euston don't comply) and (potentially) inadequate placement (details based on which platform).

Also please share the full text of the appeal you already submitted (again with personal details redacted) and the date you submitted it and the date of the appeal decision letter.

Basically you're looking for any procedural errors here in how they responded to what you wrote, and then in your next appeal you'll need to prove that the correct fare was paid, show that you didn't gain anything by arriving earlier, and then try to persuade them to apply discretion, arguing that what happened was an unfair and disproportionate outcome and quote from the recent ORR report e.g. recommendation 2.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2025 ==

How did you each arrive at Euston? Do you have any evidence of this? E.g. if you arrived on the tube, a record of the touch out (from the TfL website). If you have location tracking on your phones look for evidence from there. How did you each know which platform to go to if you were in a hurry close to the departure time?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2025 ==

How exactly were you separated? Both together, one jumps in as doors closing, other one is just a fraction of a second too late? One is already on train in a seat, other dashes down platform but too late and misses train?
When exactly did this happen in relation to the advertised departure time of the train? Did the doors close early? Was it crowded? Was it the doors closest to the platform entrance? etc. etc.