Near miss with an access ramp at Norwood Junction station (RAIB)

[Jimini]

As per:

[Withdrawn] Near miss with an access ramp at Norwood Junction station

Investigation into a near miss involving a manual access ramp at Norwood Junction station on the Windrush line, 1 July 2025.

www.gov.uk

Investigation into a near miss involving a manual access ramp at Norwood Junction station on the Windrush line, 1 July 2025.

At around 09:52 on 1 July 2025, a train operated by Arriva Rail London departed Norwood Junction station with a manual access ramp still attached to it. These ramps are used to facilitate boarding and alighting for mobility scooters and wheelchairs and should be removed before trains depart.

The access ramp involved had been attached at a doorway by platform staff to assist a passenger in a mobility scooter, who was planning to board the train. The driver of the train was not aware that the access ramp was attached when they closed the doors, and the train departed with it still attached. No one was on the ramp as the train started to move.

The access ramp was dragged along the platform where two members of staff and a member of the public took action to avoid it. After around 160 metres, the ramp struck a fence at the end of the platform and fell away from the train. Platform staff alerted the signaller of the incident, and the train was taken out of service at New Cross Gate. No injuries were caused to staff or passengers during the incident, although damage was caused to the access ramp.

Our investigation will seek to identify the sequence of events which led to the incident. It will also consider

• the actions of those involved and anything which may have influenced them
• the management of the staff involved, including their training and competence
• the arrangements in place to manage and control the risks associated with the provision and use of manual access ramps
• any underlying management factors.

Our investigation is independent of any investigation by the railway industry or by the industry’s regulator, the Office of Rail and Road.

We will publish our findings, including any recommendations to improve safety, at the conclusion of our investigation. This report will be available on our website.

You can subscribe to automated emails notifying you when we publish our reports.

Sounds like quite the impromptu / extreme game of skipping on the platform!

 

[The exile]

I’m surprised that the doors can be closed with a ramp in place (I mean Im surprised the ramp doesn’t get in the way, rather than complicated interlocking with door controls). Shouldn’t be too difficult to bolt something that means they can’t, I’d have thought.

 

[frankmoh]

How are the access ramps put on the train?


Pictured: Class 378 door

Are they slotted into these holes? If so, it would make sense as to why the driver was not alerted of anything blocking the door (since it's not actually in the way).

 

[KNN]

How are the access ramps put on the train?

View attachment 184542
Pictured: Class 378 door

Are they slotted into these holes? If so, it would make sense as to why the driver was not alerted of anything blocking the door (since it's not actually in the way).

You'd expect the driver to check the cameras though

 

[The exile]

You'd expect the driver to check the cameras though

It said two members of staff had to jump out the way - maybe they were blocking his view.

 

[43066]

You'd expect the driver to check the cameras though

It doesn’t necessarily follow that they didn’t. Cameras/screens can be affected by lighting conditions and various other factors, and aren’t infallible.

 

[bahnause]

You'd expect the driver to check the cameras though

Not everything that is recognizable in life-size and 3D is also obvious on a small display in 2D.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I’m surprised that the doors can be closed with a ramp in place (I mean Im surprised the ramp doesn’t get in the way, rather than complicated interlocking with door controls). Shouldn’t be too difficult to bolt something that means they can’t, I’d have thought.

Could the ramps be re-designed so the doors can't be closed with the ramp in place?

I appreciate ramp/train interfaces are not standardised, hence the array of ramps at most stations, but it seems to be a flaw in the design of this particular interface.

 

[frankmoh]

Could the ramps be re-designed so the doors can't be closed with the ramp in place?

I appreciate ramp/train interfaces are not standardised, hence the array of ramps at most stations, but it seems to be a flaw in the design of this particular interface.

Given the sheer amount of ramps across the UK, it would be a very, very slow change.

 

[43066]

Could the ramps be re-designed so the doors can't be closed with the ramp in place?

I appreciate ramp/train interfaces are not standardised, hence the array of ramps at most stations, but it seems to be a flaw in the design of this particular interface.

Almost certainly not in a way that anyone will be willing to pay for. Non standard ramps and rolling stock types etc., as you have noted.

 

[Horizon22]

It said two members of staff had to jump out the way - maybe they were blocking his view.

They'd be likely very visibly in the dispatch corridor, so that doesn't quite hold true.

But no doubt what the driver saw whilst closing doors and dispatching will be the main part of investigation.

 

[KNN]

It doesn’t necessarily follow that they didn’t. Cameras/screens can be affected by lighting conditions and various other factors, and aren’t infallible.

Not everything that is recognizable in life-size and 3D is also obvious on a small display in 2D.

I'll rephrase, you'd expect the driver to have checked the cameras and been able to see a ramp.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2025 ==

They'd be likely very visibly in the dispatch corridor, so that doesn't quite hold true.

Quite

 

[TheManBehind]

How are the access ramps put on the train?

View attachment 184542
Pictured: Class 378 door

Are they slotted into these holes? If so, it would make sense as to why the driver was not alerted of anything blocking the door (since it's not actually in the way).

Those are drainage holes, not the lug fittings that you'd typically see which are normally to the extreme sides and on the step plate just inside the door on the interior metal step plate (or a few inches further in).

There are, unfortunately, a number of ways that I've seen staff "deploy" a ramp (and, indeed, some "universal" ramps feature no lug holes), a number of which could have feasibly led to the outcome noted.

The bottom of the doors do not tend to have the pressure sensors featured on the closing edges, so if it could close or if the ramp was wedged against the bodywork, it's certainly possible that it could be dragged.

 

[Horizon22]

Those are drainage holes, not the lug fittings that you'd typically see which are normally to the extreme sides and on the step plate just inside the door on the interior metal step plate (or a few inches further in). There are, unfortunately, a number of ways that I've seen staff "deploy" a ramp (and, indeed, some "universal" ramps feature no lug holes), a number of which could have feasibly led to the outcome noted. The bottom of the doors do not tend to have the pressure sensors featured on the closing edges, so if it could close or if the ramp was wedged against the bodywork, it's certainly possible that it could be dragged.

Normally though the two lugs are on the left and right hand sides of the door opening, so if the door is open, ramp is correctly attached and the driver attempts to close the doors, it shouldn't get anywhere near towards an interlock state.

 

[frankmoh]

I should also note that the Class 378 (376 too) has "sliding pocket" doors as opposed to the standard Electrostar "plug" doors. Are items more likely to get stuck in sliding doors?

 

[dub]

I should also note that the Class 378 (376 too) has "sliding pocket" doors as opposed to the standard Electrostar "plug" doors. Are items more likely to get stuck in sliding doors?

Maybe. The way the Class 700s get round this is by having "arms" on the ramp that stretch beyond the end of the ramp into the train to prevent the doors from closing.

 

[D365]

I should also note that the Class 378 (376 too) has "sliding pocket" doors as opposed to the standard Electrostar "plug" doors. Are items more likely to get stuck in sliding doors?

There was, until recently, a spate of door incidents on Elizabeth line (Class 345) due to the plug doors closing onto coffee cups and other detritus.

 

[43066]

I'll rephrase, you'd expect the driver to have checked the cameras and been able to see a ramp.

Indeed.

To be clear I’m also not suggesting that the driver definitely wasn’t at fault. Unfortunately it’s a case of fallible human interfacing with fallible technology.

These events are also incredibly rare in the scheme of things, and taken very seriously when they do occur, as evidenced in this case, even where thankfully nobody was injured.

Normally though the two lugs are on the left and right hand sides of the door opening, so if the door is open, ramp is correctly attached and the driver attempts to close the doors, it shouldn't get anywhere near towards an interlock state.

Agreed.

However there are often instances of staff incorrectly deploying ramps, and using the wrong doors. The Electrostars I used to sign had the sets of doors behind the driving cabs set not to auto close, specifically so that wheelchair ramps could be used safely at these locations (are 378s the same?).

That didn’t prevent instances of platform staff using other sets of doors and then accusing drivers of closing the doors on them when the auto close kicked in .

 

[jonb]

There have also been several other incidents on the ARL network involving Class 710 “Trap & Drags”, but I’m sure the investigation will fully outline the timeline of events and any recommendations

 

[NSEWonderer]

How are the access ramps put on the train?

View attachment 184542
Pictured: Class 378 door

Are they slotted into these holes? If so, it would make sense as to why the driver was not alerted of anything blocking the door (since it's not actually in the way).

They're slotted in on some ramps from what I've seen. Its the main way to secure the ramp safely in. Most ramps have the longer two sides to stop a door fully closing but im unfamiliar with if the ramp at norwood junction ommits this.

 

[frankmoh]

Did anything on the platform of Norwood Junction get damaged? (the fence for instance)

 

[renegademaster]

Isn't Norwood Junction a platform staff dispatch station (don't know the propper term)?

 

[FrontSideBus]

That could have been far worse!

 

[OscarH]

They're slotted in on some ramps from what I've seen. Its the main way to secure the ramp safely in. Most ramps have the longer two sides to stop a door fully closing but im unfamiliar with if the ramp at norwood junction ommits this.View attachment 184560

One thing a colleague floated was if Norwood Junction potentially had multiple ramps for different stock, 378 ones that had the longer sides, and eg 377 ones that don't but might still fit in the same holes (and would therefore allow interlock if the wrong ramp was used)

Obviously that's an idle thought and not an accusation etc etc

 

[Horizon22]

One thing a colleague floated was if Norwood Junction potentially had multiple ramps for different stock, 378 ones that had the longer sides, and eg 377 ones that don't but might still fit in the same holes (and would therefore allow interlock if the wrong ramp was used)

Obviously that's an idle thought and not an accusation etc etc

It's a fair comment. Of course such things will all be part of the investigation as there are many factors - many of which have been mentioned in this thread - that could be at play.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2025 ==

Isn't Norwood Junction a platform staff dispatch station (don't know the propper term)?

Didn't believe so, thought it was all DOO through Norwood Junction.

 

[Watershed]

Didn't believe so, thought it was all DOO through Norwood Junction.

It can be DOO but still require dispatch staff. That was the case for most larger stations on the Brighton Main Line until a couple of years ago and it's still true at places like London Victoria.

 

[Horizon22]

It can be DOO but still require dispatch staff. That was the case for most larger stations on the Brighton Main Line until a couple of years ago and it's still true at places like London Victoria.

Indeed. But I don't think Norwood Junction is in this regard, although happy to be corrected.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Poor images but the ramp highlighted in red is the one that doesn't have the protruding ramp door blockers. Where as the ramp highlighted in teal green does. The proximity of both is quite intresting. From what I've seen of the ramp highlighted in red, it doesn't stop a door closing on it. Nothing confirmed as to what exactly happened but it is intresting that the two ramps are on the overground platform, I assume southern stop there too.

 

[Horizon22]

View attachment 184578View attachment 184579Poor images but the ramp highlighted in red is the one that doesn't have the protruding ramp door blockers. Where as the ramp highlighted in teal green does. The proximity of both is quite intresting. From what I've seen of the ramp highlighted in red, it doesn't stop a door closing on it. Nothing confirmed as to what exactly happened but it is intresting that the two ramps are on the overground platform, I assume southern stop there too.

Theoretically you would need every ramp for all potential stock (although many can be shared) for a station. So that means 700s and 377s too. Looking at to the signage on each ramp (human factors basically) will be part of the investigation as well to assess the risk of staff taking the "wrong" ramp.

For example I've seen signage at Liverpool St where they've stenciled on the types of stock one type of ramp can be used for (345, 720, 710 aventra stock)

As with any investigation, looking at the "swiss cheese" model will eventually how this occured as multiple gaps aligned in an unlikely set of circumstances.

 

[renegademaster]

Theoretically you would need every ramp for all potential stock. So that means 700s and 377s too

The 700s only ever use 3 and 4
5 is Southbound Overground and some Southbound Southerns, 6 is almost always only Southern i think just the Tat & Cat