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Thoughts on the Trump presidency

DarloRich

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I must admit I'm surprised they've not released a fake one yet. Considering how conniving and shameless they usually are it seems like quite an obvious move.
either:

there isn't one OR there is one with quite a lot of unpalatable names on it including a certain D J Trump!

We've not fought a war with the US since 1812.
The War of 1812 was a bit of a score draw: We got a good away win by burning down the White House and did well in the north saving Canada (Yeah!) but we did lose quite badly at the Battle of New Orleans which took place a fortnight AFTER the peace treaty to end the war had been signed in Ghent (?) ( doh!)
 
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The exile

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We have of course spent quite a lot of that shared history killing each other in various combinations! We've not fought a war with the US since 1812.
Such unfortunate incidents occur in the best of families. In many ways, the fact that we haven’t fought a war with the USA for 200+ years shows how little we “move in the same circles”. You might not like your distant relatives, but it’s your neighbours / housemates / immediate family whom you squabble with - at least until some kind of outside threat throws you all into the same boat, at which point the hatchet gets reluctantly buried.
 

ainsworth74

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Such unfortunate incidents occur in the best of families. In many ways, the fact that we haven’t fought a war with the USA for 200+ years shows how little we “move in the same circles”. You might not like your distant relatives, but it’s your neighbours / housemates / immediate family whom you squabble with - at least until some kind of outside threat throws you all into the same boat, at which point the hatchet gets reluctantly buried.
I get the attraction of family analogies when it comes to international relations but I must confess I think they can be overused much like comparing a nation states economics to those of the household budget can be overused.
 

najaB

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I must admit I'm surprised they've not released a fake one yet. Considering how conniving and shameless they usually are it seems like quite an obvious move.
I think that boat sailed quite some time ago. The more conspiracy-minded members of the MAGA coalition would have believed it before but aren't likely to accept it now.
 

The exile

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I think that boat sailed quite some time ago. The more conspiracy-minded members of the MAGA coalition would have believed it before but aren't likely to accept it now.
Stand by for some kind of “Wag the Dog” stunt.
 

martin butler

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Well, given the obvious closeness that Epstein, and Trump once had, I for one would be very concerned if his name was not on the list,

Look at the numerous photos of them taken, clearly being friends, then look at what both men had in common, a liking for young girls, and it's not hard to put 2 and 2 together, of course his name, along with every person Epstein managed to trap in his web will be on it,

What will be interesting is if trump has his name erased, claims he never went to the island, and Maxwell comes up with collaborated evidence, that clearly shows he has lied, and that the stories that were told about the very dodgy things that went on, are true, and has trumps sticky little fingers all over them. would his base still stand by him?
 

The exile

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What will be interesting is if trump has his name erased, claims he never went to the island, and Maxwell comes up with collaborated evidence, that clearly shows he has lied, and that the stories that were told about the very dodgy things that went on, are true, and has trumps sticky little fingers all over them. would his base still stand by him?
Corroborative evidence that will convince people who don’t want to be convinced will be hard to find. However, if the dam breaks I would not want to be in Trump’s shoes (well, I wouldn’t anyway…). Vance would have to spot which way the wind was blowing (sorry, mixed metaphor) almost before it started to avoid being collateral damage.
 

Gloster

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Well, given the obvious closeness that Epstein, and Trump once had, I for one would be very concerned if his name was not on the list,

Look at the numerous photos of them taken, clearly being friends, then look at what both men had in common, a liking for young girls, and it's not hard to put 2 and 2 together, of course his name, along with every person Epstein managed to trap in his web will be on it,

What will be interesting is if trump has his name erased, claims he never went to the island, and Maxwell comes up with collaborated evidence, that clearly shows he has lied, and that the stories that were told about the very dodgy things that went on, are true, and has trumps sticky little fingers all over them. would his base still stand by him?

Maxwell or Murdoch?
 

martin butler

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Corroborative evidence that will convince people who don’t want to be convinced will be hard to find. However, if the dam breaks I would not want to be in Trump’s shoes (well, I wouldn’t anyway…). Vance would have to spot which way the wind was blowing (sorry, mixed metaphor) almost before it started to avoid being collateral damage.

I don't think Trump is long for this world, and If I'm right, the dam will break after his demise, when everything is no longer able to be stopped from leaking out, and it will be Vance that gets washed away many in MAGA won't want him anyway, because he's not their god, and Maga will fade away, hopefully by the mid-terms, Americans will start to realise they were lied to, and punish the republican party for lying to them, and taking them for fools. trumps policies will by then, have helped open their eyes,
 

jon0844

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Well, given the obvious closeness that Epstein, and Trump once had, I for one would be very concerned if his name was not on the list,

Look at the numerous photos of them taken, clearly being friends, then look at what both men had in common, a liking for young girls, and it's not hard to put 2 and 2 together, of course his name, along with every person Epstein managed to trap in his web will be on it,

What will be interesting is if trump has his name erased, claims he never went to the island, and Maxwell comes up with collaborated evidence, that clearly shows he has lied, and that the stories that were told about the very dodgy things that went on, are true, and has trumps sticky little fingers all over them. would his base still stand by him?

Videos are now being released that don't show Trump abusing anyone but certainly doesn't look all that great, given his closeness to young girls and his involvement with beauty pageants (and his own admission before that he was able to go into changing rooms because he ran them).

There's a video of Ivanka being interviewed in her old bedroom and appearing uneasy when she talks about her old bed, and other comments that I've seen on social media but didn't save to link to.

The footage isn't hidden camera stuff, but simply old and people are now digging out of archives - because back then such beauty competitions were common and generally seen as acceptable - often televised.

There's obviously a risk of AI generated material being released in the future, and it wouldn't surprise me if this isn't used as a defence.

We'll be told that all the photos and videos we saw with our own eyes is in fact faked...
 

martin butler

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Maxwell or Murdoch?
Maxwell knows who these people were, and she, to save her own neck will cut a deal, assuming that there is evidence she actually assisted in procuring minors, and was part of the crime, Murdock, He could very well be who collaborates Maxwells stories, along with what dirt he has personally on Trump,
 

SargeNpton

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Re the closeness between Trump and Epstein, this from 2019 about Virginia Giuffre...

"In deposition excerpts made public Friday, Giuffre said she was working as a spa attendant at Mar-a-Lago in 2000 when she was approached by Epstein’s longtime friend Ghislaine Maxwell about giving massages to the wealthy investor, who owned a mansion in Palm Beach not far from the Trump resort."

Taken from an article on the Politico website.
 

Welly

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I hope the writer of the "Prince Andrew is a sweaty...." song writes "Donald Trump is a smelly...." before the Great Orange Perv comes round to the UK!
 

martin butler

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I hope the writer of the "Prince Andrew is a sweaty...." song writes "Donald Trump is a smelly...." before the Great Orange Perv comes round to the UK!
Oh, come on, you can't call him an Great Orange Perv, He never knew Epstein, nor Maxwell, Never went to the island, it was someone else, Or at least that will be his next move, all those pictures are fakes, put there by Obama, I wonder why he hates him so? did Ivanka say She fancied him or something, :lol:
 

jon0844

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Trump has listened to people demanding the files and wanting the President arrested.

He's issued the MLK Jr files and is now seeking to arrest Obama for treason. Job done, right?
 

DarloRich

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Shutting down Congress to stop the release of files you promised to release is quite impressive - anyone would think there was something to hide!

It is great fun to see the conspiracy nuts twist themselves corkscrew trying to process all this. Has Trump lost control of the loonies?
 

Cowley

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Shutting down Congress to stop the release of files you promised to release is quite impressive - anyone would think there was something to hide!

It is great fun to see the conspiracy nuts twist themselves corkscrew trying to process all this. Has Trump lost control of the loonies?

I don’t know if this is the thing that’ll get him, but I do think that this has actually caused him some damage, and it has the potential to cause him even more because he’s dealt with it really badly over the last few days.

He seems genuinely rattled by it.
 

martin butler

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I don’t know if this is the thing that’ll get him, but I do think that this has actually caused him some damage, and it has the potential to cause him even more because he’s dealt with it really badly over the last few days.

He seems genuinely rattled by it.
The extreme right-wing Christians that make up much of his base, might have a come to God moment, if it were established that Trump was indeed on that list, and was a frequent visitor to Epstein's island, but to be honest the clues are already there, but they just don't want to admit it, I'm waiting for Maxwell to be given a deal, if she tells alll, to implicate the bigger fish, I think it will shock a lot of people how the rich, and famous like to play, Actors have said about how seedy Hollywood really is, how when they were young, child actors how , some producers were like vultures, boys as well as girls, found themselves receiving advances from people in the industry,
 

ainsworth74

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The extreme right-wing Christians that make up much of his base, might have a come to God moment, if it were established that Trump was indeed on that list, and was a frequent visitor to Epstein's island, but to be honest the clues are already there, but they just don't want to admit it,
That's one of the interesting things of the recent furore, there's not any real new information coming to light! Nearly everything that's been causing him such issues has been in the public domain for a quite a long time. It's just that suddenly the MAGA base and various acolytes have woken up and smelled the covfefe.
 

sor

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Shutting down Congress to stop the release of files you promised to release is quite impressive - anyone would think there was something to hide!

It is great fun to see the conspiracy nuts twist themselves corkscrew trying to process all this. Has Trump lost control of the loonies?
it's impressive to see how the right wing is so similar on both sides of the atlantic.

The Canadian Tories pioneered the idea of shutting down parliament every time it got a bit inconvenient for the ruling government. Boris Johnson then infamously attempted the same manoeuvre during the Brexit s*show. Now Trump's giving it a go.
 

nlogax

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That's one of the interesting things of the recent furore, there's not any real new information coming to light! Nearly everything that's been causing him such issues has been in the public domain for a quite a long time. It's just that suddenly the MAGA base and various acolytes have woken up and smelled the covfefe.
Despite the inevitable lack of resulting personal consequences (they just..don't happen to him), it is interesting to note even some of his most ardent online supporters have been repulsed by the latest round of distractions and denials. Most obviously Redditors that inhabit /r/Conservative, a sub that has moved so far right since 2023-24 it's hard not to believe the comments aren't wholly generated by a bot farm. Now there's actual dissent in the ranks.
 

ainsworth74

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Boris Johnson then infamously attempted the same manoeuvre during the Brexit s*show. Now Trump's giving it a go.
I believe Baroness Hale has some free time at the mo if the Americans need a hand dealing with legislatures being shutdown by rogue leaders?

But more seriously for a moment I would argue that what's happened in the US is even more serious than what Boris did as Congress is a co-equal branch of Government alongside the Executive (and Courts). Congress has decided to take itself out of the equation (as it has been for months to be fair, so I guess none of us should really be surprised, always worth remembering much of what Trump is doing isn't legal or Constitutional but Congress sits supine despite having the power to stop it) on its own initiative, Trump has now Constitutional power to send Congress into recess (even if he is no doubt pleased it has done, and may well have asked the Speaker to do it). Which is a bit different to say Boris who was able (at least temporarily) to exert Executive power over Parliament and have it prorogued no matter Parliaments feelings on the matter.
 

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