What current train services would look different if certain railways hadn’t been closed?

[Helvellyn]

It wasn't?

I'm sure others would have other nominations, but I'd say the closure of Wellingboro - Northampton was the worst single closure of the 1960s. It was a short route (12 miles?), so what were the savings? And it offered such potential for connectivity. Much better than Bletchley - Bedford, especially considering that did not run into Bedford Midland at the time, and was also likely expected to close.

BR & the Ministry of Transport must have known, even in 1964, that the GC would be closing north of Aylesbury, and could have insisted keeping Aylesbury to Calvert, running a DMU Aylesbury - Bletchley - Northampton - Wellingboro' - Kettering - Corby - Oakham - Melton - Nottingham. (Single sections north of Corby as appropriate.)

And, of course, Milton Keynes was also in the planning stage, though I'm not sure it was announced by the time the GC closed. Nonetheless, it would clearly need new connections.

Nobody would expect to use Aylesbury - Nottingham throughought (faster to Nottingham by changing at Wellingboro), but this would have maintained a service northwards from Aylesbury (actually, better than anything previously offered, at least in terms of connections), a service to Corby and north thereof.

You mean between Northampton and Wellingboro? You could have kept Castle Ashby open. Don't think Northampton Bridge Street would make the grade.

90 mpn or even 75 mph line speed would have been fine.

Agree that longer term Wellingboro' - Peterboro' would have been good, but I suspect the financials at the time would have been very poor. And, of course, it ran into Peterboro' East, not North.

Was Oundle station well located for the settlement? If so, might have provided some local traffic, I suppose. There was the school, of course.

As I posted earlier though, the link into Wellingborough Midland wasn't the main route. The Northampton-Peterborough line had its main Wellingborough station at Wellingborough London Road, used by through passenger trains to/from Peterborough. Yes, you could have closed the route from there to Peterborough, closed London Road and run trains into Midland station but as previously said the connection came up on the Fasts. I believe there was a bay platform between what is today platforms 2 and 3, but to avoid conflicting movements you'd likely have needed a new bay platform adjacent to the Goods Shed. Connections in the 1960s would have been limited because Wellingborough's service was sporadic - even in the early 1990s InterCity were providing an off-peak 90 minute interval service.

United Counties Omnibus effectively replaced the Northampton-Peterborough line with a through bus service that still exists today as the Stagecoach X4, although for operational reasons the route is split at Corby forcing a change. Yes, Corby isn't on the closed line but the bus service follows the A4500 (old A45 running through the intermediate settlements) from Northampton-Wellingborough, heads North to Kettering/Corby, then across to Peterborough via Oundle, linking the bigger settlements rather than just following the bottom of the Nene Valley as the railway did (which also missed Kettering/Corby).

It's still possible to buy through rail tickets (although not on many websites) to Oundle (by Bus), Corby (by Bus) and Kettering (by Bus) that are routed via Peterborough then onto the X4 service. The better Midland Mainline service and restoration of Corby's rail links are probably why the alternate destinations are not readily sold (the Ketering and Corby 'by bus' destinations are not the rail stations but rather the bus station).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2025 ==

Are you sure it wasn't the fact that the former Merioneth constituency was marginal, and Labour held it? On the flip side, Minehead, part of the Taunton constituency, was safe Tory?

Politics may have played a part but the tourist traffic was probably sufficiently strong to play a part as well. Lincolnshire has been safe Tory and its rail services were decimated but Skegness remained open. Poor road links again but also a Butlin's.

 

[The Planner]

Doesn't the Cambrian have a lot of school traffic to places like Harlech? presumably it was just as important in the past as I expect the railway was quicker than a school bus.

 

[Zomboid]

There are a couple of rail bridges that cut off a 10 mile drive, aren't there?

The Cambrian probably survived through social necessity.

 

[Gloster]

Are you sure it wasn't the fact that the former Merioneth constituency was marginal, and Labour held it? On the flip side, Minehead, part of the Taunton constituency, was safe Tory?

Not exactly. The top end of the Cambrian Coast line and the Avon Wen-Carnarvon line were part of the Carnarvonshire constituency long held with a good majority by Goronwy Roberts (a name familiar to oldies). The rest of the Coast line was in the Merioneth constituency which was still moderately safe Labour, though possibly not so safe that the closure could have worried the party.

It was the Central Wales line, which was proposed for closure before Beeching, that was always said to have survived because it ran through so many marginal constituencies.

The Cambrian probably survived through social necessity.

It wasn’t until the Transport Act of 1968 that the idea of the ‘social railway’ really took root. Before it was much more of ‘this will damage my constituents’ businesses’.

 

[RT4038]

As I posted earlier though, the link into Wellingborough Midland wasn't the main route. The Northampton-Peterborough line had its main Wellingborough station at Wellingborough London Road, used by through passenger trains to/from Peterborough. Yes, you could have closed the route from there to Peterborough, closed London Road and run trains into Midland station but as previously said the connection came up on the Fasts. I believe there was a bay platform between what is today platforms 2 and 3, but to avoid conflicting movements you'd likely have needed a new bay platform adjacent to the Goods Shed. Connections in the 1960s would have been limited because Wellingborough's service was sporadic - even in the early 1990s InterCity were providing an off-peak 90 minute interval service.

I am a little confused with this assertation - up to closure there was a (steam) shuttle service between Northampton and Wellingborough (Midland Road), running about every 2 hours. In the 1956 timetable one train ran through from Northampton to Nottingham (with a 30 minute stop at Kettering to let more important trains to pass) and a return from Leicester to Northampton. I think later these trains were curtailed at Kettering. @Merle Haggard can no doubt fill in the details. The Northampton connection to the North at Wellingborough was shown in the MML timetable and the connecting times were fairly convenient. These trains presumably joined and crossed the fast lines.

The big issues at the time of closure were (a) few passengers used the trains - local passengers had long since deserted to the splendid omnibus services of the district, which ran much more frequently than the train and actually served the town centres of Northampton and Wellingborough, and plyed more directly to Kettering without a change of vehicle; and (b) British Railways and the highway authorities would have been keen to eliminate the level crossings, particularly across the main roads at Northampton (Bridge Street) and Wellingborough (London Road)

United Counties Omnibus effectively replaced the Northampton-Peterborough line with a through bus service that still exists today as the Stagecoach X4, although for operational reasons the route is split at Corby forcing a change. Yes, Corby isn't on the closed line but the bus service follows the A4500 (old A45 running through the intermediate settlements) from Northampton-Wellingborough, heads North to Kettering/Corby, then across to Peterborough via Oundle, linking the bigger settlements rather than just following the bottom of the Nene Valley as the railway did (which also missed Kettering/Corby).

The strict truth is that the United Counties and Eastern Counties Omnibus Companies jointly provided a replacement through bus service (no. 409) at the 'peak' times of travel, twice per day (roughly 7am and 6pm from each end) between Northampton and Peterborough, following the line of rail in the Nene Valley via Wellingborough, Irthlingborough, Thrapston and Oundle. This augmented several more frequent local bus services over all of the segments of the rail line (Such as no. 402 Northampton-Wellingbrough-Irthlingborough, 265/313 Corby-Oundle-Peterborough and 266 Kettering-Thrapston-Oundle-Peterborough) and the infrequent no. 422 (Wellingborough-Irthlingborough-Thrapston). Irthlingbrough-Thrapston-Oundle no doubt being the weakest segment as few passengers would want to make this local journey: Thrapston looked to Kettering as its local centre. Over the years the Irthlingborough-Thrapston-Oundle segment has completely foundered - the current X4 now takes in (in spirit rather than exact routeing) Northampton-Wellingborough (402), then Wellingborough-Kettering (407), Kettering-Corby (254) and 265/313 Corby-Oundle-Peterborough [to use the Service Nos. of the day]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2025 ==

It wasn't?

I'm sure others would have other nominations, but I'd say the closure of Wellingboro - Northampton was the worst single closure of the 1960s. It was a short route (12 miles?), so what were the savings? And it offered such potential for connectivity. Much better than Bletchley - Bedford, especially considering that did not run into Bedford Midland at the time, and was also likely expected to close.

BR & the Ministry of Transport must have known, even in 1964, that the GC would be closing north of Aylesbury, and could have insisted keeping Aylesbury to Calvert, running a DMU Aylesbury - Bletchley - Northampton - Wellingboro' - Kettering - Corby - Oakham - Melton - Nottingham. (Single sections north of Corby as appropriate.)

And, of course, Milton Keynes was also in the planning stage, though I'm not sure it was announced by the time the GC closed. Nonetheless, it would clearly need new connections.

Nobody would expect to use Aylesbury - Nottingham throughought (faster to Nottingham by changing at Wellingboro), but this would have maintained a service northwards from Aylesbury (actually, better than anything previously offered, at least in terms of connections), a service to Corby and north thereof.

You mean between Northampton and Wellingboro? You could have kept Castle Ashby open. Don't think Northampton Bridge Street would make the grade.

90 mpn or even 75 mph line speed would have been fine.

Agree that longer term Wellingboro' - Peterboro' would have been good, but I suspect the financials at the time would have been very poor. And, of course, it ran into Peterboro' East, not North.

Was Oundle station well located for the settlement? If so, might have provided some local traffic, I suppose. There was the school, of course.

I think it hyperbole to consider Northampton-Wellingborough to be 'the worst single closure of the 1960s' The savings were the cost of running the trains, the cost of maintaining the line and the cost of operating the level crossing across main roads, for a train service that carried few passengers mostly because the stations were all inconveniently sited; whose passengers had long since deserted it.
The GC service north of Aylesbury by 1964 was likewise carrying very few passengers - I can't imagine that the trade of Aylesbury to Nottingham passengers would have justified much more than a motor cycle and sidecar. The Ministry of Transport wanted to bring down the costs of running the railway as much as BR did, and were only too pleased to be shorn of the GC north of Aylesbury, the Calvert-Bletchley line, Northampton-Wellingborough and Melton-Nottingham lines. Nobody at that time would have contemplated an Aylesbury-Nottingham service via your suggested route anymore than anyone is suggesting a Stratford-Leamington-Nuneaton-Leicester-Nottingham-Lincoln route today.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Not exactly. The top end of the Cambrian Coast line and the Avon Wen-Carnarvon line were part of the Carnarvonshire constituency long held with a good majority by Goronwy Roberts (a name familiar to oldies). The rest of the Coast line was in the Merioneth constituency which was still moderately safe Labour, though possibly not so safe that the closure could have worried the party.

It was the Central Wales line, which was proposed for closure before Beeching, that was always said to have survived because it ran through so many marginal constituencies.



It wasn’t until the Transport Act of 1968 that the idea of the ‘social railway’ really took root. Before it was much more of ‘this will damage my constituents’ businesses’.

Not being an expert , but the most of the year school traffic for secondary schools at Towyn (Tywyn) and Harlech made a material difference to the survival of the Cambrian coast , along of course with seasonal tourist business.

The 1968 act was a gamechanger really in setting out in effect a social contract and subsidy for many rural lines in England and Wales.

 

[Zomboid]

Going full crayon and just looking at lines on a map, I would think that the Northampton to Market Harborough line would be more useful today than the Wellingborough route.

 

[PTR 444]

Going full crayon and just looking at lines on a map, I would think that the Northampton to Market Harborough line would be more useful today than the Wellingborough route.

That is a very good point, considering the lack of rail connectivity between Leicester and Northampton/Milton Keynes.

I suppose once HS2 is complete between London and Birmingham, there could be a case to divert some Sheffield/Nottingham trains into Euston via a reopened Market Harborough - Northampton line, and put all remaining trains on the MML south of there onto Thameslink. The question is what would you do with the MML platforms at St Pancras. Could they be extended to become additional platforms for international trains?

 

[Zomboid]

That is a very good point, considering the lack of rail connectivity between Leicester and Northampton/Milton Keynes.

I suppose once HS2 is complete between London and Birmingham, there could be a case to divert some Sheffield/Nottingham trains into Euston via a reopened Market Harborough - Northampton line, and put all remaining trains on the MML south of there onto Thameslink. The question is what would you do with the MML platforms at St Pancras. Could they be extended to become additional platforms for international trains?

If it were there then there obvious service would be a semi fast to however far up the MML paths are available. Something like Euston - Watford - Bletchley - MK - Wolverton - Northampton - Market Harborough - Leicester.

Though that's the WCML stopping pattern of the LNR Birmingham service, so it'll need to take advantage of the capacity HS2 will release on the Southern WCML.

 

[6Gman]

Yes I do

Ignoring Aberystwyth - Carmarthen for a moment, I’m amazed that Pwllheli was considered a more important destination than Caernarfon for the Cambrian Coast Line. What was the reason for keeping the former open but closing the latter?

Well, initially Caernarfon didn't close and Pwllheli was more important for the Cambrian than Caernarfon.

I may be one of the few people on here to have used the Caernarfon-Afon Wen line and it really wasn't well used! And a heavily peaked flow to Butlins was probably more of a hindrance than a help.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If the "Leeds New Line" from Mirfield via Heckmondwike had remained open, there probably wouldn't be a business case for the four-tracking of the surviving route that's currently under way.

On the more rural side of things, the Holmfirth branch would be doing rather well nowadays despite being a pre-Beeching closure. Probably would have meant the retention of double track on the Penistone line at least as far as the junction at Brockholes, even if Clayton West still closed in 1983 with the loss of the coal traffic. There may even be a case for turning the former headshunt into a south-facing chord allowing services from Holmfirth to head towards Sheffield. However if Woodhead and Sheffield Victoria had both survived, the case for reopening Penistone to Barnsley via Silkstone to passengers might not have been there.

The minted denizens of Holmfirth might well have demanded a through service to Leeds too.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Going full crayon and just looking at lines on a map, I would think that the Northampton to Market Harborough line would be more useful today than the Wellingborough route.

If it were there then there obvious service would be a semi fast to however far up the MML paths are available. Something like Euston - Watford - Bletchley - MK - Wolverton - Northampton - Market Harborough - Leicester.

If Northampton to Harborough had been retained, it might have been to divert MML IC services to Euston. MML south of Harborough would've become a branch line to Bedford.

To be fair, had this happened, MMLE might've been finished in the 80s rather than being cancelled for the 17th time earlier this month.

The capacity issues that this would have led to on South WCML as demand picked up from sound 1990 might have led either to the full restoration of the MML or brought forward the case for something like HS2 by about 10 years

 

[A S Leib]

If Northampton to Harborough had been retained, it might have been to divert MML IC services to Euston. MML south of Harborough would've become a branch line to Bedford.

To be fair, had this happened, MMLE might've been finished in the 80s rather than being cancelled for the 17th time earlier this month.

The capacity issues that this would have led to on South WCML as demand picked up from sound 1990 might have led either to the full restoration of the MML or brought forward the case for something like HS2 by about 10 years

I know that there's a very limited direct service now and that passenger numbers were much lower pre-2005 (9.1 mn that year; 3.2 mn in 1997) but wouldn't Luton Airport have been a reason to run more services from Leicester to London via the MML?

I doubt Corby would ever have got a better (southbound) service than it has now, but would it have got the 2tph to London it has now in this case?

 

[Zomboid]

doubt Corby would ever have got a better (southbound) service than it has now, but would it have got the 2tph to London it has now in this case?

If Market Harborough to Northampton had been retained as the MML main line, then everything that happened north of Bedford would be up for debate.

Perhaps the Corby/ Melton/ Old Dalby/ Nottingham route would have survived in some form (I'm thinking Waterloo - Exeter style rationalising) and the current routes via Desborough and Melton - Syston might have gone.

 

[Falcon1200]

If Market Harborough to Northampton had been retained as the MML main line,

Was that not BR's plan in the 1960s, allowing St Pancras to be closed? Presumably Bedford would just have retained a DMU service to Moorgate.

 

[PTR 444]

The capacity issues that this would have led to on South WCML as demand picked up from sound 1990 might have led either to the full restoration of the MML or brought forward the case for something like HS2 by about 10 years

This might have actually been a better outcome in the long term, since a vacant St Pancras would have been able to host HS2, bringing costs down over building a new terminus at Euston.

 

[yorksrob]

This might have actually been a better outcome in the long term, since a vacant St Pancras would have been able to host HS2, bringing costs down over building a new terminus at Euston.

Aside from the various cultural/architectural/service provision objections to such an outcome, I'm sure that any such vacant plot on the Euston Road would have long since been developed over.

 

[Zomboid]

If St Pancras had been closed, we'd have long ago hit the no remaining capacity problem and probably built HS2 some time so.

But I'm the interim, where would the main places on the route have been served from? Euston - Northampton - Market Harborough - Leicester - Nottingham would make sense, but Derby and Sheffield might have been better served with a new chord to the Birmingham - Derby line near Tamworth, or would Sheffield have been served from the ECML? Maybe Nottingham would have been an ECML destination too. Kettering etc might have retained a diminished service from Leicester into somewhere like Liverpool Street via the GOB, or Euston via Bedford and Bletchley.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Was that not BR's plan in the 1960s, allowing St Pancras to be closed? Presumably Bedford would just have retained a DMU service to Moorgate.

Yes, I think the idea was all BedPan services would have gone to Moorgate (and eventually Thameslink I guess). Thameslink might now extend to Corby.

This might have actually been a better outcome in the long term, since a vacant St Pancras would have been able to host HS2,

I'm sure that any such vacant plot on the Euston Road would have long since been developed over

On reflection, agree with Yorksrob here. St Pancras would've been closed, sold off and redeveloped.

HS1 being built around the same time as the WCML being full/WCRM, there's nowhere for a restored MML to terminate and perhaps leads to a combined underground HS1/HS2 station.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2025 ==

But I'm the interim, where would the main places on the route have been served from?

I think if perhaps you're serving Leicester/Nottingham via Northampton then these are IC services as might be Derby/Sheffield via Tamworth (And there is never the capacity for LNWR Trent Valley services).

Similarly if Sheffield is ECML via Retford and/or Nottingham via Grantham then perhaps then capacity for open access operators on the ECML doesn't exist.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Just do a run round at the north end of Northampton.

Edit: I thought we were on about the Market Harborough line, which would have a better case of opening. There is nowhere near enough freight out of DIRFT in that direction that would justify Wellingborough as a solution.

An alternative to Wellingborough might be to reopen Northampton to Market Harborough, might actually be better as it is more direct but misses out a link between Northampton and Kettering, Wellingborough etc. which are quite large settlements.

Is the route between Northampton and Market Harborough still intact?

 

[RT4038]

Is the route between Northampton and Market Harborough still intact?

Not really. In the open countryside, yes and of course the Northampton and Lamport preserved line is on some of it. There were two level crossings on major roads which would need to be bridged (and the Braybrooke road in Market Harborough), and the A14 has been built straight over the track bed (on an embankment, but an underbridge for the railway would need to be built). There are two tunnels (Kelmarsh and Oxendon) which are single line bores with limited clearance probably needing complete rebuilding. The trackbed has been built on in Market Harborough and I suspect it would be easier to build a new line to the east of the town than to reinstate the original line in the urban area.

 

[The Planner]

Is the route between Northampton and Market Harborough still intact?

Same applies to any closed route, following Google Maps into Wellingborough, I cannot see any way of getting that route back around Brackmills and Little Irchester. Market Harborough looks the "easiest" to do.

 

[Class15]

Kettering etc might have retained a diminished service from Leicester into somewhere like Liverpool Street via the GOB, or Euston via Bedford and Bletchley.

Via the GOB would be such a long way round though, via South Tottenham, Coppermill Jn and Clapton presumably?

 

[Zomboid]

Via the GOB would be such a long way round though, via South Tottenham, Coppermill Jn and Clapton presumably?

Yes, that's what I meant.

Still a long way round though. Which is probably part of the reason St Pancras wasn't closed.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Same applies to any closed route, following Google Maps into Wellingborough, I cannot see any way of getting that route back around Brackmills and Little Irchester. Market Harborough looks the "easiest" to do.

So basically a new railway that uses some historic alignment, ie EWR price tag without the benefit of having Cambridge at one end.

I think it's pretty much only the British Regional Transport Assoc that are championing this, so it's kind of where EWR was in about 1993.

Yes, that's what I meant.

Still a long way round though. Which is probably part of the reason St Pancras wasn't closed.

70s/80s BR thinking might have left them with just an arthritic DMU shuttle from Bedford to Harborough, eg the way some Marston Vale services used to be extended to Kettering.

In turn it might then have needed a Chiltern "Evergreen" arrangement in the 1990s to reinstate two tracks, build Corby station, electrify and serve via Thameslink. Plus a 170 dutifully shuttling between Leicester and Kettering.

 

[Topological]

Not really. In the open countryside, yes and of course the Northampton and Lamport preserved line is on some of it. There were two level crossings on major roads which would need to be bridged (and the Braybrooke road in Market Harborough), and the A14 has been built straight over the track bed (on an embankment, but an underbridge for the railway would need to be built). There are two tunnels (Kelmarsh and Oxendon) which are single line bores with limited clearance probably needing complete rebuilding. The trackbed has been built on in Market Harborough and I suspect it would be easier to build a new line to the east of the town than to reinstate the original line in the urban area.

Is it perhaps only those single-track tunnels that meant keeping the present MML route was viable? I am applying government thinking where capital investment in Northampton-Market Harborough was seen as worse than the ongoing costs of keeping the route via Kettering.

Prior to VHF, there would have been scope to have the MML trains into Euston (since Manchester only had 1tph, there are 2 paths there for Nottingham and Sheffield) and Northampton semi-fasts could simply go to Nottingham/Sheffield as the current MML semi-fasts.

There are some other interesting knock-on questions about moving the MML fasts away from the present MML. Would there be the 4-track capability for Bedford Thameslink to overtake the stoppers near London? Would 4-tracking stop at St Albans? Would the line actually have been chopped at Bedford? Was there any mileage in keeping a freight capable line from Bedford towards Leicester/Nottingham?

If this was done tomorrow then all the MML trains would need to be extensions of the LNWR Northamptons, with the current Northampton extensions of LNWR terminating at Northampton. However, post HS2 when the fasts are off the WCML... Being the UK, the one part of the MML that has been electrified is the bit through Kettering.

 

[Zomboid]

70s/80s BR thinking might have left them with just an arthritic DMU shuttle from Bedford to Harborough, eg the way some Marston Vale services used to be extended to Kettering.

In turn it might then have needed a Chiltern "Evergreen" arrangement in the 1990s to reinstate two tracks, build Corby station, electrify and serve via Thameslink. Plus a 170 dutifully shuttling between Leicester and Kettering

That's possible, maybe a couple of peak time extensions from Moorgate if there were any measurable commuter market.

The question of how the Evergreen style project would work in London is an interesting one, if St Pancras has been sold off. I think Moorgate sub surface had 4 terminal platforms, so I guess it might have been workable if they'd all been dedicated to the Midland route. Thameslink (original and 2000) would have been very different projects!

 

[Merle Haggard]

I am a little confused with this assertation - up to closure there was a (steam) shuttle service between Northampton and Wellingborough (Midland Road), running about every 2 hours. In the 1956 timetable one train ran through from Northampton to Nottingham (with a 30 minute stop at Kettering to let more important trains to pass) and a return from Leicester to Northampton. I think later these trains were curtailed at Kettering. @Merle Haggard can no doubt fill in the details. The Northampton connection to the North at Wellingborough was shown in the MML timetable and the connecting times were fairly convenient. These trains presumably joined and crossed the fast lines.

The big issues at the time of closure were (a) few passengers used the trains - local passengers had long since deserted to the splendid omnibus services of the district, which ran much more frequently than the train and actually served the town centres of Northampton and Wellingborough, and plyed more directly to Kettering without a change of vehicle; and (b) British Railways and the highway authorities would have been keen to eliminate the level crossings, particularly across the main roads at Northampton (Bridge Street) and Wellingborough (London Road)


The strict truth is that the United Counties and Eastern Counties Omnibus Companies jointly provided a replacement through bus service (no. 409) at the 'peak' times of travel, twice per day (roughly 7am and 6pm from each end) between Northampton and Peterborough, following the line of rail in the Nene Valley via Wellingborough, Irthlingborough, Thrapston and Oundle. This augmented several more frequent local bus services over all of the segments of the rail line (Such as no. 402 Northampton-Wellingbrough-Irthlingborough, 265/313 Corby-Oundle-Peterborough and 266 Kettering-Thrapston-Oundle-Peterborough) and the infrequent no. 422 (Wellingborough-Irthlingborough-Thrapston). Irthlingbrough-Thrapston-Oundle no doubt being the weakest segment as few passengers would want to make this local journey: Thrapston looked to Kettering as its local centre. Over the years the Irthlingborough-Thrapston-Oundle segment has completely foundered - the current X4 now takes in (in spirit rather than exact routeing) Northampton-Wellingborough (402), then Wellingborough-Kettering (407), Kettering-Corby (254) and 265/313 Corby-Oundle-Peterborough [to use the Service Nos. of the day]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2025 ==


I think it hyperbole to consider Northampton-Wellingborough to be 'the worst single closure of the 1960s' The savings were the cost of running the trains, the cost of maintaining the line and the cost of operating the level crossing across main roads, for a train service that carried few passengers mostly because the stations were all inconveniently sited; whose passengers had long since deserted it.
The GC service north of Aylesbury by 1964 was likewise carrying very few passengers - I can't imagine that the trade of Aylesbury to Nottingham passengers would have justified much more than a motor cycle and sidecar. The Ministry of Transport wanted to bring down the costs of running the railway as much as BR did, and were only too pleased to be shorn of the GC north of Aylesbury, the Calvert-Bletchley line, Northampton-Wellingborough and Melton-Nottingham lines. Nobody at that time would have contemplated an Aylesbury-Nottingham service via your suggested route anymore than anyone is suggesting a Stratford-Leamington-Nuneaton-Leicester-Nottingham-Lincoln route today.

Having been - sort of - invited out of my period of 'read only' may I make the following observation;


In the early sixties, in order to allow for electrification and route enhancements, almost all through services were diverted from the Southern end of the West Coast; Birmingham and Liverpool (via B'head) to Paddington, Manchester to St Pancras and Marylebone and so on. Th significance of this is that was exactly the period when Beeching was looking at the viability of branch and cross country lines. It meant that, for instance, the only traffic on the Northampton - Wellingborough - Peterborough route was purely local, although until the diversions there was very likely also connecting traffic - i.e., journeys from before Northampton to beyond Wellingborough and Peterborough.

You are right in praising Northamptonshire's bus service (there was an interregnum in the early 1970s); there is currently one bus an hour from Northampton to Peterborough (first one, 0545) and two more per hour, Northampton to Wellingborough. All are double deck; the eastbound services in the late afternoon are often very full (with standing almost on to the front platform) after Northampton College. Of course, the College traffic would not be conveyed if the line was still open and, as has been said, Wellingborough Midland Road station was not conveniently close to the town centre.

The strange Northampton - Nottingham via Melton (and return only from Leicester) was a sulky replacement for the service direct to Harborough and then over the LNWR/GN Joint, which closed to passengers ca 1953. The Midland finally won. The Northampton - Harborough service was withdrawn ca 1960 and a major factor was line occupation for coal trains; they were banked from Harborough to Kelmarsh and, as well as empties, paths had to be found for the returning Super Ds. The line ran downhill to Northampton, though obviously up hill trains were empties so limited by length not weight.

The Market Harborough line seems to have been built as part of a successful attempt to capture a share of the Notts/Derbys coalfield traffic to London. This also involved assisting the then impecunious G.N. to obtain permission for a line from Nottingham to Harborough which, as it happened, benefitted The LNW much more than the GN. The line was built very 'economically'. reducing the capital cost, as is usual, increased the maintenance costs. It also, before Grouping, enabled the LNW to provide through coaches from the North east connecting into the Sunny South Express so that a passenger from Scarborough to Hastings could in theory travel in a single LNW coach throughout (though perhaps that example was niche...).

Was that not BR's plan in the 1960s, allowing St Pancras to be closed? Presumably Bedford would just have retained a DMU service to Moorgate.

I had a brake van pass (Kettering to Cranford, as it happens) and got talking to the Area Movements Assistant around 1967-8. This seemed to be very live then; close Glendon - Harborough and divert the services from the North via Northampton - their interest was, of course, the threat of redundancy. I also vaguely recollect being pretty sure that the reason was because, at that time, the newly electrified route into Euston had traffic levels (still recovering from years of diversion away from) that hardly justified the investment; not to mention 200 new-ish AC locos with many not gainfully employed (fortunately, in the case of NBL's finest ) and this was seen as a way of increasing utilisation. Remember also, that about this time Cricklewood. - Brent just about closed, with freight trains from the Midland also being diverted similarly, to Sudbury and Willesden - Brent - again soaking up AC loco use. Just left Wellingborough to Acton (staged from Toton), to serve W.R. destinations, and the St Pancras - Glasgow sleeper was also diverted that way to allow St Pancras sleeper depot to be closed. But I can't remember what was planned at the South end; I don't think that that plan also involved closing St Pancras but, at the time, many peak trains between Bedford and London ran to Moorgate. It was of course a different world as far as commuting went, with dormitory towns being much closer to London than now.

 

[quantinghome]

The current North and North-West Leeds commuter network is very busy. However, it would have been even busier (or made more complicated depending on your point of view) if the Arthington-Otley-Menston and Ilkley-Skipton lines had remained open and all lines remained double-track rather than some sections singled. I imagine it could have produced a useful freight route as well, as it would have provided a Pennines-ECML freight route without having to negotiate the Leeds station western approach.

 

[stevieinselby]

An alternative to Wellingborough might be to reopen Northampton to Market Harborough, might actually be better as it is more direct but misses out a link between Northampton and Kettering, Wellingborough etc. which are quite large settlements.

I would love to see a line from Daventry to Rushden via Northampton and Wellingborough – adding two sizeable towns to the rail network, and connecting the 2nd, 3rd and 4th largest towns in Northamptonshire with Northampton itself – while not direct, one change from Corby and Kettering at Wellingborough would be a huge improvement over the current situation. Potential for a couple of other intermediate stations as well. Realistically I can't see it happening, while the lines would definitely be possible to build, they wouldn't be straightforward or cheap, so unlikely to be a priority while money is so tight, but it's nice to dream.