Manchester goods train routing in 1964

[47296lastduff]

I was a participant in an LCGB organised brake van trip in 1964, when my recording of details was extremely poor. Our goods train started in Trafford Park Sidings and ran to Ashton Road Yard.I cannot see any relevant WTT on Timetable World, so am left guessing which way we went.
Does anybody have access to details of which route was the norm for these please?

 

[Gloster]

Six Bells Junction only lists one around Bolton and one around Glossop in 1964, neither of which look likely. One might presume that the route was around the line via Fallowfield and Reddish Depot: any other route would involve a lot of messing about.

 

[Magdalia]

I was a participant in an LCGB organised brake van trip in 1964

LCGB contemporary journals should have the details.

 

[47296lastduff]

Gloster-I suspect you are right about Fallowfield loop, just trying to confirm it.
Magdalia-the LCGB bulletin frustratingly mentions passing United FC Halt, but nothing else asbout the route.

 

[Gloster]

Gloster-I suspect you are right about Fallowfield loop, just trying to confirm it.
Magdalia-the LCGB bulletin frustratingly mentions passing United FC Halt, but nothing else asbout the route.

Trafford Park Sidings were on the north side of the CLC line and the 1935 Manchester United Football Ground Halt was just east of the entrance. Presumably the trip swung across at Trafford Park East Junction, round the Throstle Nest Curve to Throstle Nest South Junction and joined the line to Chorlton.

 

[Taunton]

Such brake van trips often DID have a lot of messing about and use of unusual lines and reversals, that was commonly the interest, lines with no passenger service. I presume in Manchester in 1964 it was still steam hauled.

Just in passing, did it start around 1 pm on a Saturday afternoon? Many such tours did in those times, with plenty of the participants being junior office staff, working Saturday mornings as well, and leaving at 12.30pm. Even some schools went in on Saturday mornings.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The only other plausible route would be via Stockport Tiviot Dale and Reddish North.

 

[47296lastduff]

Yes Taunton, it was the 1330 departure from Trafford Park on Sat 05/12/64, hauled by 48288. The leading light in organising these NW branch outings was employed at BR Hunts Bank offices, next to Man Vic station. The report says it was due at Ashton Road Yard 1420, so seemingly too long a time for just running via Piccadilly and Ardwick.

 

[Springs Branch]

- post deleted -

 

[Gloster]

Yes Taunton, it was the 1330 departure from Trafford Park on Sat 05/12/64, hauled by 48288. The leading light in organising these NW branch outings was employed at BR Hunts Bank offices, next to Man Vic station. The report says it was due at Ashton Road Yard 1420, so seemingly too long a time for just running via Piccadilly and Ardwick.

I really think that in that case it has got to be a straight run with no shunting and running around. As the line via Levenshulme South had lost its local service in 1958 and was only used by through trains, it was possibly a chance for local enthusiasts to travel a difficult bit of line to cover, including the Throstle Lane and Hyde Road Curves; I think that all the route via Tiviot Dale was still covered by local services. The times suggest it might have used an ‘end of working week’ routine stock or loco transfer before some some of the boxes closed for the weekend.

 

[Taunton]

I don't think in those times that routing from the through platforms at Oxford Road/Piccadilly right across to the Sheffield line was looked on with favour. One side was 25kV and the other was DC, and although there was pointwork going right across I don't ever recall it being used as such. Possibly the south side line was still used by the Harwich boat train, from Guide Bridge to Central, and then on to Liverpool Central, which was changed to terminate at Piccadilly some time around this. Early December would have been getting dark shortly after 3 pm, which really restricted the scope for railtours in wintertime in those years.

Office staff at BR offices also worked on Saturday mornings in this era. Another alternative on Saturday afternoons was to go on to the football, where games invariably started at 3pm, spending the intervening time with a group in a pub. These latter generally did not do food in those times, so it was common to have brought in sandwiches from home, which I presume applied to the railtour as well. It's notable in old photos of such how many are formally attired in ties and jackets, but this was commonly because they needed to come straight from the office.

 

[Gloster]

As far as I can see the remaining Woodhead main line services were diverted from Central to Piccadilly on 1 January 1968. After that there seems to have been just a single, probably parliamentary, DMU to Guide Bridge.

 

[Taunton]

The through services via the Manchester South Side line were an operational nuisance, as they had to change from DC electric to steam locos at Guide Bridge, and then again at Manchester Central where they reversed to Liverpool.

I did one afternoon, probably just around this 1964 time, see the afternoon Harwich train about to leave Liverpool Central hauled by a Trafford Park Britannia, which will only have been going as far as Manchester Central.

 

[5562]

I didn't think Trafford Park had any Brits allocated as late as 1964.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

As far as I can see the remaining Woodhead main line services were diverted from Central to Piccadilly on 1 January 1968. After that there seems to have been just a single, probably parliamentary, DMU to Guide Bridge.

According to the RCTS the Harwich Boat Train was chopped back to Piccadilly on 09/09/63 with Cl 37 haulage (including Woodhead) throughout.

Harwich Boat

This is intended to be a brief overview of the locomotives used on the Harwich - Sheffield / Manchester / Scotland (via Manchester) trains commonly referred to as the 'Harwich Boat Train'. Monday September 9th 1963 was when the northern destination of the train was switched to Manchester Piccadilly, having previously been Liverpool Central and use of steam locomotives ceased. The train did not run on Sundays until 1980 and then only on Summer Sundays.

 

[Gloster]

I didn't think Trafford Park had any Brits allocated as late as 1964.

According to Walmsley the last one left around February 1961. This seems to tally with BR Database.

 

[Taunton]

These forums have disbelieved the Brit in Liverpool Central in 1963-4 before, and it does sound unlikely. But I was there and I walked up to look at it! No idea which one now though.

 

[Gloster]

The September 1964 to June 1965 LM timetable shows shows an overnight train leaving Central for Marylebone at 23.05 M-F, 22.50 SO with first stop Guide Bridge; there is no return working. There is also a 09.30 Liverpool Central-Guide Bridge M-S leaving Manchester Central at 10.30, returning from Guide Bridge at 12.45.

By the March 1967 to May 1968 timetable it looks as though only the Liverpool-Guide Bridge working was left.

 

[WesternLancer]

The September 1964 to June 1965 LM timetable shows shows an overnight train leaving Central for Marylebone at 23.05 M-F, 22.50 SO with first stop Guide Bridge; there is no return working.

This reminds me of the closing sequences of the film Billy Liar where he evades taking the late night London train with Julie Christie.

As shown in this clip

Though I’m not sure where this was filmed in reality and if it was in Manchester at all

 

[Gloster]

This reminds me of the closing sequences of the film Billy Liar where he evades taking the late night London train with Julie Christie.

As shown in this clip

Though I’m not sure where this was filmed in reality and if it was in Manchester at all

Various sources (BFI, imdb and Railway Film Database) all give the location as Marylebone. Also starring TSO 4247. The original story and, I think, the film were Yorkshire based.

 

[WesternLancer]

Various sources (BFI, imdb and Railway Film Database) all give the location as Marylebone. Also starring TSO 4247. The original story and, I think, the film were Yorkshire based.

Thank you. Yes now I think about it I agree with you about Yorkshire. Good of you to point this out!

 

[Taunton]

Various sources (BFI, imdb and Railway Film Database) all give the location as Marylebone. Also starring TSO 4247. The original story and, I think, the film were Yorkshire based.

Film Billy Liar, 1963, is from the 1959 book of the same name by prominent journalist and scriptwriter Keith Waterhouse. The author later wrote a fascinating autobiography of his early life in Leeds, City Lights (pub. 1994), which actually mentions the various incidents in the lives of himself and his associates which got into the fictional book and film. But it also has a whole lot of transport references from those times, the Leeds trams in particular, and a great deal of humour as well. It's still on the nearer shelves of my bookcases.

 

[Gloster]

Film Billy Liar, 1963, is from the 1959 book of the same name by prominent journalist and scriptwriter Keith Waterhouse. The author later wrote a fascinating autobiography of his early life in Leeds, City Lights (pub. 1994), which actually mentions the various incidents in the lives of himself and his associates which got into the fictional book and film. But it also has a whole lot of transport references from those times, the Leeds trams in particular, and a great deal of humour as well. It's still on the nearer shelves of my bookcases.

Keith Waterhouse wrote the best summing up of place that I know. ‘Brighton is a town that always looks as if it is helping police with their inquiries.’ (Somewhat off subject here, but what a quote.)

 

[WesternLancer]

Film Billy Liar, 1963, is from the 1959 book of the same name by prominent journalist and scriptwriter Keith Waterhouse. The author later wrote a fascinating autobiography of his early life in Leeds, City Lights (pub. 1994), which actually mentions the various incidents in the lives of himself and his associates which got into the fictional book and film. But it also has a whole lot of transport references from those times, the Leeds trams in particular, and a great deal of humour as well. It's still on the nearer shelves of my bookcases.

It’s a great film. I’m sure the book is even better!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2025 ==

Keith Waterhouse wrote the best summing up of place that I know. ‘Brighton is a town that always looks as if it is helping police with their inquiries.’ (Somewhat off subject here, but what a quote.)

Heard that quite but didn’t think I knew who said it. Thanks

 

[Taunton]

Keith Waterhouse wrote the best summing up ... (Somewhat off subject here, but what a quote.)

And wrote this, on project management, something that a number of current new train contracts, the 701 in particular, might care to reflect on. I used to have it up on my office wall.

How Long, O Lord......?

Several of my more devout friends have complained that Other Men's Flowers , while purporting to be a veritable compendium of literary refer...

omf.blogspot.com

 

[Bevan Price]

I didn't think Trafford Park had any Brits allocated as late as 1964.

That is not entirely relevant. At times, steam locos used to wander long distances away from their allocated depot.

 

[Harvester]

During 1964 Holyhead, Aston, Crewe North and Carlisle Kingmoor had Brits on their allocations. It is quite possible that some of these locos could have wandered into Liverpool Central.