Urgent help! Fined for using a ticket on the wrong date.

[rwea90]

Hi all, I feel so stupid for what happened - it was an honest mistake. Last Friday, I was traveling up from London to Manchester. As I was leaving the station, my ticket was scanned. Turns out my ticket was booked for the week after, so I was issued a fine. The ticket inspector said that I could try to appeal, but I have no idea how any of this works. I feel so stupid and embarrassed about this situation. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@rwea90. Welcome to the forum. When you say you were "issued a fine", what paperwork, if any, were you actually handed?

In particular, how much have you been asked to pay? If you can upload a copy of the paperwork, please do so. (But be sure to obscure or otherwise cover up any name and address and/or reference number that may be showing on the docket).

 

[rwea90]

@rwea90. Welcome to the forum. When you say you were "issued a fine", what paperwork, if any, were you actually handed?

In particular, how much have you been asked to pay? If you can upload a copy of the paperwork, please do so. (But be sure to obscure or otherwise cover up any name and address and/or reference number that may be showing on the docket).

I was given a penalty fair notice. It says I have to pay £100.01. If this is paid by 1/08 the fine will be reduced to £50.01. I have not paid anything yet.

 

[signed]

I was given a penalty fair notice. It says I have to pay £100.01. If this is paid by 1/08 the fine will be reduced to £50.01. I have not paid anything yet.

Please post the notice in its entirety, hiding personal information and any reference number please

 

[Haywain]

I was given a penalty fair notice. It says I have to pay £100.01. If this is paid by 1/08 the fine will be reduced to £50.01. I have not paid anything yet.

That sounds very odd. Please post a copy of the notice with your personal details redacted so that we can give you appropriate advice.

 

[rwea90]

Please post the notice in its entirety, hiding personal information and any reference number please

Hi, I've attached it below.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jul 2025 ==

Please post the notice in its entirety, hiding personal information and any reference number please

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jul 2025 ==

@rwea90. Welcome to the forum. When you say you were "issued a fine", what paperwork, if any, were you actually handed?

In particular, how much have you been asked to pay? If you can upload a copy of the paperwork, please do so. (But be sure to obscure or otherwise cover up any name and address and/or reference number that may be showing on the docket).

 

[skyhigh]

Hard to know where to start with this one, as there are so many issues with how that's been dealt with...

 

[father_jack]

Was it an "inclusive tour/ITX" package ticket with a hotel or some special promo ticket with a nominal value of £0.01 ? Maybe just post a picture of the ticket.

 

[John R]

I suspect the inspector has decided not to charge again for the ticket as one was held but had to put a minimum fare of a penny in, to enable them to issue the ticket.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Is this the RPI doing the OP a favour and minimising the cost of the “new ticket”?

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi all, I feel so stupid for what happened - it was an honest mistake. Last Friday, I was traveling up from London to Manchester. As I was leaving the station, my ticket was scanned. Turns out my ticket was booked for the week after, so I was issued a fine. The ticket inspector said that I could try to appeal, but I have no idea how any of this works. I feel so stupid and embarrassed about this situation. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Don’t worry. You won’t feel as stupid or embarrassed as whoever has issued that penalty fare entirely unlawfully. This is the stupidest and worst penalty fare seen for some time.

Avanti aren’t a penalty fares operator, you can’t be penalty fared for this. The penalty fare is unlawful on those grounds, as well as several others.

The fare element is fictional and not related to any appropriate fate.

I’m still laughing at the sheer stupidity of the staff - a penalty fare so bad and so disgraceful it has hallucinogenic properties - but some more serious posters (who aren’t on their mobiles) will assist you with wording an appeal.

You should also complain to the company that issued it - I assume on behalf of Northern? This is a disgrace. They cannot be penalty faring people off Avanti and they should know this.

Is this the RPI doing the OP a favour and minimising the cost of the “new ticket”?

No, they’re actually issuing a £100 penalty fare they have no basis in law to issue.

 

[The exile]

Presumably the “correct solution’ would have been to sell the OP a full fare ticket for their journey, at which point they could then have claimed a refund on the incorrect ticket (if they weren’t in a position to use it). Whatever the legalities, if that is the alternative and would leave the OP more than £50.01 out of pocket (which it might if next weeks ticket was a cheap advance they wouldn’t be able to use) they might want to consider whether it’s a hill worth dying on.

 

[furlong]

Looks like a revenue grab? The Penalty Fare goes to (presumably) Northern. Selling a new walk-up ticket for the correct date, the money would have mostly gone to Avanti.
The passenger-friendly option would have been to accept the ticket on the wrong date but make sure it was cancelled/endorsed so it could not be reused on the correct date.

 

[AlterEgo]

Presumably the “correct solution’ would have been to sell the OP a full fare ticket for their journey, at which point they could then have claimed a refund on the incorrect ticket (if they weren’t in a position to use it). Whatever the legalities, if that is the alternative and would leave the OP more than £50.01 out of pocket (which it might if next weeks ticket was a cheap advance they wouldn’t be able to use) they might want to consider whether it’s a hill worth dying on.

What alternative? The OP will have to pay nothing at all, because the penalty fare will be successfully appealed on several grounds. They don't get to do anything else.

 

[transportphoto]

This should be a fairly simple appeal. My suggested wording, others may critique.

I am writing to appeal at the first stage Penalty Fare Notice [reference] issued on train, timed [hh:mm] on [date]. This appeal is made in line with Regulation 16 The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018, and is made within twenty-one days after the date on which the penalty fare was charged.

I submit that I travelled on Avanti West Coast for the duration of my journey. Avanti West Coast do not operate a penalty fare scheme, as demonstrated by their logos not being included in penalty fare warning notices at station, and therefore this penalty fare should not have been issued by Northern (or any train operating company).

The notice does not comply with the requirement as set out in The Railway (Penalty Fare) Regulations 2018 for various technical elements, these are additional grounds not included in this appeal due to the underlying lack of applicable penalty fare scheme.

 

[WesternLancer]

Surely what should have happened is the op should have been reported for prosecution, and / or charged the eye watering Anytime single London to Manchester walk up fare.

The staff must have thought they were doing them a big favour issuing a £50 penalty fair rather than sending the op off for several hundred quids worth of non appealable charge….

A correctly worded appeal via the correct appeal process as detailed on the paperwork is the way to go. Pursued to all three stages with help from here is the way to go.

 

[transportphoto]

A correctly worded appeal via the correct appeal process as detailed on the paperwork is the way to go. Pursued to all three stages with help from here is the way to go.

I’ve recently seen an appeal for similar (not anywhere near as bad) technicalities succeed at first stage. It does happen occasionally!

 

[WesternLancer]

I’ve recently seen an appeal for similar (not anywhere near as bad) technicalities succeed at first stage. It does happen occasionally!

Fingers crossed

 

[AlterEgo]

There's nothing technical about the appeal. It simply was issued for a journey and an operator which can never have been grounds for a penalty fare. It's the most dead in the water penalty fare there is, no need to argue the toss about signage or whether it was to the destination or "next station" - it's quite simple.

Also they invented the fare, of course, largely because they knew a penalty fare was completely unlawful to issue. That there is no oversight of this is really concerning; no penalty fare should ever be issued at Manchester Piccadilly for anyone coming from London.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

There's nothing technical about the appeal. It simply was issued for a journey and an operator which can never have been grounds for a penalty fare. It's the most dead in the water penalty fare there is, no need to argue the toss about signage or whether it was to the destination or "next station" - it's quite simple.

Also they invented the fare, of course, largely because they knew a penalty fare was completely unlawful to issue. That there is no oversight of this is really concerning; no penalty fare should ever be issued at Manchester Piccadilly for anyone coming from London.

All looks good. As OP seems unfamiliar with the appeal process, perhaps we can step them through what they need to do - who they need to contact, what precisely they need to say, when their deadline is and so on?

 

[skyhigh]

I suspect the inspector has decided not to charge again for the ticket as one was held but had to put a minimum fare of a penny in, to enable them to issue the ticket.

This is not possible with the software that was used. The inspector cannot just make up a random amount to charge, they input the journey details and select the relevant fare.

I suspect the fare option was listed as £0.01 on their machine as it clearly isn't allowable to issue a Penalty Fare for this journey, so it's a reminder not to do so. A little like the £9999 fares seen on BRFares. In this case, the idiot who's issued it has ignored that.

This is probably the worst example of a Penalty Fare I have ever seen.

 

[WesternLancer]

This is not possible with the software that was used. The inspector cannot just make up a random amount to charge, they input the journey details and select the relevant fare.

I suspect the fare option was listed as £0.01 on their machine as it clearly isn't allowable to issue a Penalty Fare for this journey, so it's a reminder not to do so. A little like the £9999 fares seen on BRFares. In this case, the idiot who's issued it has ignored that.

This is probably the worst example of a Penalty Fare I have ever seen.

I do suspect they were trying to do the passenger a favour however. Presumably apart from letting the op off with a warning anything else they could have done they knew would have cost the passenger more to resolve- possibly several hundred pounds more.

 

[swt_passenger]

What happens if this penalty fare is successfully binned for the reasons given by previous replies, but Northern then pass the details on to Avanti, who come back with an UFN for payment of an Anytime single? Is that what they call a pyrrhic victory?

 

[Starmill]

What happens if this penalty fare is successfully binned for the reasons given by previous replies, but Northern then pass the details on to Avanti, who come back with an UFN for payment of an Anytime single? Is that what they call a pyrrhic victory?

I don't think an unpaid fares notice can practically be issued in these circumstances? So any demand for payment would just have to proceed through the usual civil means to collect a debt. Of course you're right that is a possibility.

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There's nothing technical about the appeal. It simply was issued for a journey and an operator which can never have been grounds for a penalty fare. It's the most dead in the water penalty fare there is, no need to argue the toss about signage or whether it was to the destination or "next station" - it's quite simple.

Also they invented the fare, of course, largely because they knew a penalty fare was completely unlawful to issue. That there is no oversight of this is really concerning; no penalty fare should ever be issued at Manchester Piccadilly for anyone coming from London.

Unfortunately the new rules aren't as clear in this regard. The PF is still 100% dead, because Avanti West Coast's name isn't on the signage at London Euston (nor presumably anywhere else!) but it may be necessary to point that part out to the appeal panel.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2025 ==

I do suspect they were trying to do the passenger a favour however. Presumably apart from letting the op off with a warning anything else they could have done they knew would have cost the passenger more to resolve- possibly several hundred pounds more.

They could have still done the customer a favour and also protected the industry's revenue by issuing a new ticket at £79.80. Going down this route essentially just boils down to incompetence.

 

[rwea90]

Don’t worry. You won’t feel as stupid or embarrassed as whoever has issued that penalty fare entirely unlawfully. This is the stupidest and worst penalty fare seen for some time.

Avanti aren’t a penalty fares operator, you can’t be penalty fared for this. The penalty fare is unlawful on those grounds, as well as several others.

The fare element is fictional and not related to any appropriate fate.

I’m still laughing at the sheer stupidity of the staff - a penalty fare so bad and so disgraceful it has hallucinogenic properties - but some more serious posters (who aren’t on their mobiles) will assist you with wording an appeal.

You should also complain to the company that issued it - I assume on behalf of Northern? This is a disgrace. They cannot be penalty faring people off Avanti and they should know this.



No, they’re actually issuing a £100 penalty fare they have no basis in law to issue.

Hi, neither of the two trains I took for this journey was operated by Avanti.

 

[John R]

Hi, neither of the two trains I took for this journey was operated by Avanti.

What ticket did you have exactly, and what trains did you take?

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi, neither of the two trains I took for this journey was operated by Avanti.

Then what ticket did you have and where did you come from? The penalty fare is still dead because they can only issue it for the train you arrived from, not the origin of your journey if you changed trains.

 

[rwea90]

Then what ticket did you have and where did you come from? The penalty fare is still dead because they can only issue it for the train you arrived from, not the origin of your journey if you changed trains.

I'll attach it below. It was a train from Euston to Crewe. From Crewe, I had to take another train to Mcr Piccadilly. As I was leaving the platform, my ticket was scanned, and I was then fined.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2025 ==

What ticket did you have exactly, and what trains did you take?

I've posted screenshots in one of the replies.

 

[AlterEgo]

The penalty fare fails because it cannot be issued from London in this circumstance. It can only be issued from Crewe.

If you travel on the yellow zones, as laid out here: https://tfw.wales/ways-to-travel/rail/travel-information/penalty-fares

then in any case you would be liable to a TFW penalty fare fare of only £20. Another way in which the penalty fare was issued unlawfully. (And in fact subjecting you to a gross overcharge)

 

[rwea90]

The penalty fare fails because it cannot be issued from London in this circumstance. It can only be issued from Crewe.

If you travel on the yellow zones, as laid out here: https://tfw.wales/ways-to-travel/rail/travel-information/penalty-fares

then in any case you would be liable to a TFW penalty fare fare of only £20. Another way in which the penalty fare was issued unlawfully. (And in fact subjecting you to a gross overcharge)

Hi, Paul. Thanks for the help!

Just want to clarify something. In my appeal, should I state that my fine was issued at Manchester when it should have been issued in Crewe?

Sorry if this seems like a dumb question - I have no experience with any of this