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Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

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SCDR_WMR

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Bletchleyite said:
If the decision is made not to and it is a late evening train, what is put in place for passengers for those stations? I assume a taxi would be provided from the following station?
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Yes, alternative transport will be provided. I'm hopeful it won't come to that, or the diagrams with 350s remaining are the ones with the last trains of the day for this reason alone.
setdown said:
If behaviour on this line is an issue, why was strike action threatened when London Midland (as was back then) tried putting additional security staff on the train? I would have thought that would be welcomed by onboard staff.
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I have no idea, I was at a different depot at that time. I would hesitate to suggest that having onboard security might not have the desired effect on those late Friday/Saturday trains. Confrontation seems to just raise the level of abuse from my interactions. We'd love to have dry trains back!
 
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800001

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SCDR_WMR said:
Yes, alternative transport will be provided. I'm hopeful it won't come to that, or the diagrams with 350s remaining are the ones with the last trains of the day for this reason alone.

I have no idea, I was at a different depot at that time. I would hesitate to suggest that having onboard security might not have the desired effect on those late Friday/Saturday trains. Confrontation seems to just raise the level of abuse from my interactions. We'd love to have dry trains back!
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I've said this before in here, how do guards at many many other TOCS on services which are just or even busier and also suffer from antisocial behaviour, cope with having to use a door in the middle of a carriage to operate doors?
They are u able to use cabs as an area to operate doors.
Last service from Leeds to Harrogate is bedlam, guards manage to do doors.
Services out of Manchester and Liverpool on Northern guards manage ok.
I've been on services late at night from Birmingham and the guards are there in the carriage.
It does seem LNWR guards have this thing about the middle cabs even when other guards panels are available on platforms.
 
AJDesiro

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SCDR_WMR said:
It's on a trial basis until December pending feedback/reports. Supposedly going back to 350s but I doubt they will.
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I believe the idea behind is that 8 car 350s are needed to provide adequate capacity long-term. Although the 730/2s have something like 54 less seats than 8.350/1.
 
TT-ONR-NRN

TT-ONR-NRN

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Bletchleyite said:
These services are often a hive of antisocial behaviour, to be fair, and staff want to be able to stay safe away from it.
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Which is out of order when a guard should be a visible presence in situations like that to make passengers feel more safe. It’s literally in the job title. They’re there to guard the train and it’s passengers.
 
The_Train

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TT-ONR-NRN said:
Which is out of order when a guard should be a visible presence in situations like that to make passengers feel more safe. It’s literally in the job title. They’re there to guard the train and it’s passengers.
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I have to agree with this. I don't want anyone getting hurt at work but equally paying passengers should not be left to deal with anti-social behaviour themselves with no means of communicating with any staff on board. And talking of paying passengers, all this scenario does is create a situation whereby groups of morons can cause enough of a nuisance on any route where they are able to gift themselves free travel by being anti-social on enough occasions to force guards to hide in the cab and therefore not conduct any ticket checks. People not paying their way annoys me far more than drunken idiots do!
 
S

SCDR_WMR

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800001 said:
I've said this before in here, how do guards at many many other TOCS on services which are just or even busier and also suffer from antisocial behaviour, cope with having to use a door in the middle of a carriage to operate doors?
They are u able to use cabs as an area to operate doors.
Last service from Leeds to Harrogate is bedlam, guards manage to do doors.
Services out of Manchester and Liverpool on Northern guards manage ok.
I've been on services late at night from Birmingham and the guards are there in the carriage.
It does seem LNWR guards have this thing about the middle cabs even when other guards panels are available on platforms.
Click to expand...
And as I answered before, different TOCs have different ways of working. Just because another TOC does it that way doesn't mean everyone has to.

This is something that has been agreed between the company, and the previous company and the H&S reps. This is how they operate under WMT. Please accept this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

TT-ONR-NRN said:
Which is out of order when a guard should be a visible presence in situations like that to make passengers feel more safe. It’s literally in the job title. They’re there to guard the train and it’s passengers.
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In every industry I've worked, your own safety is first priority. If the situation is violent, I'm getting away from it not in the middle of it! I can't arrange for police or ambulance if I'm in the middle of a fight with bottles etc.

It's always a dynamic risk assessment. The main issue as stated several times is when the guard is physically unable to enter into the saloon due to overcrowding.

Antisocial behaviour is secondary to this.
 
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800001

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SCDR_WMR said:
And as I answered before, different TOCs have different ways of working. Just because another TOC does it that way doesn't mean everyone has to.

This is something that has been agreed between the company, and the previous company and the H&S reps. This is how they operate under WMT. Please accept this.
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Which to the general public will be very strange to understand. If one can do it, the other should be able.
You can state time and time again that this is how WMT operate, it doesn't make it right or acceptable to the fare paying passenger.

Again example Liverpool, a packed out full and standing train can depart with a guard using a guards panel inside a carriage, yet a train formed of a 730 full and standing and the guard won't and will only accept using the cab.
And we wonder why the public slate the railways when things like this drag on and on.
How many years have the 730s been ordered? How late are they? And yet still (or only just) accepted a method of working which may result in a train not calling at a station and asking passengers to alight before there station because the guard will only use a cab and not carriage.

People can explain why the method is for this TOC, but to Joe Public it's not acceptable.
They are the ones getting inconvenienced if the train is decided to 'fail to call', and if it happens frequently, they will think why should I bother getting the train.
 
S

SCDR_WMR

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800001 said:
Which to the general public will be very strange to understand. If one can do it, the other should be able.
You can state time and time again that this is how WMT operate, it doesn't make it right or acceptable to the fare paying passenger.

Again example Liverpool, a packed out full and standing train can depart with a guard using a guards panel inside a carriage, yet a train formed of a 730 full and standing and the guard won't and will only accept using the cab.
And we wonder why the public slate the railways when things like this drag on and on.
How many years have the 730s been ordered? How late are they? And yet still (or only just) accepted a method of working which may result in a train not calling at a station and asking passengers to alight before there station because the guard will only use a cab and not carriage.

People can explain why the method is for this TOC, but to Joe Public it's not acceptable.
They are the ones getting inconvenienced if the train is decided to 'fail to call', and if it happens frequently, they will think why should I bother getting the train.
Click to expand...
If it happens regularly, it will be discussed in the monthly meetings and no doubt we will see 350s take over the majority of the running which would be the right call.

What gives someone outside of those working these trains the right to say they aren't being worked correctly because at some other company they work differently?

I've never entered a shop and told the staff the way they work is wrong, or to a theme park and told the ride operator that their safety manual is wrong as they don't match how I was trained at the companies I worked for.

Not all trains are the same. Not all stations are the same.

The difference between these 2 classes of trains is stark - I can't open doors from every door on the 730 for starters like I can on the 350.

They were ordered for DOO, hence why there are workarounds as they really aren't set up for a guard to work. Of course they are late, very late, that we all know.
 
778

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AJDesiro said:
I believe the idea behind is that 8 car 350s are needed to provide adequate capacity long-term. Although the 730/2s have something like 54 less seats than 8.350/1.
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Could that be one of the reasons why the order for 5 car 730s was changed from 45 to 36?

If they are not going to be on Liverpool services long term then 36 units is probably enough for Euston - Crewe and WCML local trains.
 
mansonlo49

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just realised there's a 730 unit drag happened yesterday, from Old Dalby to Bletchley, any ideas? Thanks
 

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Does anyone kindly know if any 730s are still stored at Gascoigne Woods or Doncaster Belmond yard still.
Any information would be much appreciated.
Thank you.
 
rogercov

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mansonlo49

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there's 5Q77 Derby to Bletchley today, is there any info on which is it? Thanks
 

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TT-ONR-NRN said:
Which is out of order when a guard should be a visible presence in situations like that to make passengers feel more safe. It’s literally in the job title. They’re there to guard the train and it’s passengers.
Click to expand...
A dilemma here. After say, 9pm on a Friday:

1. Guard goes into train, working alone, not a police officer, incident happens, guard gets involved, train stops or is cancelled mid route.
People complain.

2. Guard stays in back, monitors from a distance, concentrates on keeping the train moving, making clear announcements. Incident happens.
People complain.

There are routes in a number of places where it's generally safe after 9pm to go out into the train - but others which are frankly terrible. The media did look at the UK's worst lines for ASB and assaults some years ago, on those, the guard should probably try stay out of the way after a point. Trains on many routes need additional staff or police - not lone workers, often female to go break fights up or stop other serious offences. Only yesterday, the RSSB was discussing body armour for railway staff (after the Ortega murder).

The definition of a railway guard isn't a security guard, as was expected on the Royal Mail Stagecoaches in the 1700s - they were armed with a blunderbuss.
 
AJDesiro

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I had a journey on one of the 730/0s on the Chase line the other day, and happened to use the (working!) toilet onboard and noticed that it had evidently been graffitied but cleaned off, albeit it was still obvious that it had been graffitied and it got me thinking…

The LNR-refurbished 350s (and I think the 172s, not too sure about the 172/1s) have a “metro tile” vinyl on the walls while the ex-LM 350/2s have vinyl images of the cities they serve on the walls. The 730s don’t seem to have these, which seem to act as very good graffiti deterrents, and make it far easier to get rid of graffiti. Seems a missed opportunity!
 
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