Railcard Advertising. (is it legal?)

[J663738]

Saw this RailCard advert at my local station.
I am not sure the Advertising Standards Authority would agree that it actually pays for itself in 'No Time'?
It must take differing amounts of time depending on the type and amount of tickets you buy.

Knowing how rail companies like to prosecute people for even the slightest breach, how can they use vague wording like this?
Are Rail Adverts on station property actually adverts? or can they get round the advertising code by saying they are information posters?

 

[Buzby]

All I can see to complain about is that the 1/3 off asterisk doesn’t explain anything. Like any scheme, it depends on your usage whether you get good value or not - and that is for the purchaser to evaluate.

 

[eastwestdivide]

if you're objecting to "in no time", surely that's a set phrase meaning "quickly" rather than meaning "instantaneously". At least that's what a bunch of dictionaries say.

 

[transportphoto]

I am not sure the Advertising Standards Authority would agree that it actually pays for itself in 'No Time'?

Have you asked the ASA for thoughts? That would seem to be the more productive approach compared to a discussion here?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Saw this RailCard advert at my local station.
I am not sure the Advertising Standards Authority would agree that it actually pays for itself in 'No Time'?
It must take differing amounts of time depending on the type and amount of tickets you buy.

Knowing how rail companies like to prosecute people for even the slightest breach, how can they use vague wording like this?
Are Rail Adverts on station property actually adverts? or can they get round the advertising code by saying they are information posters?

It's probably an advert, so if you think that it's misleading complain to the ASA (https://www.asa.org.uk/make-a-complaint.html - although I suppose it's possible that a railway advert on a station falls into their 'In-store advertising' exemption - see https://www.asa.org.uk/about-asa-and-cap/the-work-we-do/what-we-cover.html#Outside remit). But I can also see a defence that no-one would believe 'it pays for itself in no time' is absolutely literally true and so is being used as a figure of speech for 'you will make savings equivalent to the cost of the card quickly' - which is a rather different statement to challenge.

 

[Joe Paxton]

"...in no time" is a well recognised turn of phrase. I'd very much think the ASA would reject a complaint based on this.

 

[redreni]

My parents made a rare train journey last year and bought a Two Together Railcard on my advice (albeit at a promotional rate), despite having absolutely no plans to use the train again. And to my knowledge they haven't - the Railcard must be a couple of months off expiring by now. The (discounted) purchase price was less than the saving on the tickets they were buying, though. For some journeys, that would be true even if you pay full price for the Railcard.

It does depend. I don't think the ASA would take the phrase "in no time" literally. They are being fairly clear about what the up-front cost is and what sort of discount is offered. I think they'll be okay.

 

[AlterEgo]

Doesn't seem misleading at all, other than the asterisk leads nowhere to any other explainer.

 

[DGP]

I think the phrasing I would have used is 'With a 1/3rd off rail travel and rail fares being the rip off that they are, it pays for itself in no time'.

In previous years, it's only taken me one return journey between London and Newcastle to recoup the cost but this current card which I've had for 11 months has only been used for a few London Bridge to Brighton journeys so the card has not come close to paying for itself so perhaps the wording could reflect that you would need to make a long journey to quickly make it worth it?

 

[yorksrob]

Saw this RailCard advert at my local station.
I am not sure the Advertising Standards Authority would agree that it actually pays for itself in 'No Time'?
It must take differing amounts of time depending on the type and amount of tickets you buy.

Knowing how rail companies like to prosecute people for even the slightest breach, how can they use vague wording like this?
Are Rail Adverts on station property actually adverts? or can they get round the advertising code by saying they are information posters?

I'd have thought the bigger problem is that a person aged 30-60 might see it, rock up at the station and find that there's not a suitable one available.

 

[saismee]

I'd have thought the bigger problem is that a person aged 30-60 might see it, rock up at the station and find that there's not a suitable one available.

There's still many railcards that people aged 30-60 can get. Two Together, Family and Friends, Disabled Persons (if applicable), plus some operator-specific ones.

 

[Deerfold]

Doesn't seem misleading at all, other than the asterisk leads nowhere to any other explainer.

That seems to be the bigger issue, as otherwise the suggestion is that you get 1/3 off all rail travel, which isn't true at all times for all rail cards. Permissibly the idea was to have a section that explained restrictions.

 

[D6700]

It is perfectly possible for a railcard to literally pay for itself in no time. Simply purchase an expensive ticket online with the railcard discount before actually buying the railcard (in order to maximise the railcard's timespan). When you purchase the railcard just prior to travel, it's already paid for itself - and if you forget to purchase the railcard, this is the correct section of the forum for the advice that may be required!

 

[Jan Mayen]

There's still many railcards that people aged 30-60 can get. Two Together, Family and Friends, Disabled Persons (if applicable), plus some operator-specific ones.

Are there operator specific railcards? I didnt know that. May I ask which operator?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Are there operator specific railcards? I didnt know that. May I ask which operator?

Possibly these are geographic railcards which can, most likely, effectively only be used on the one train company's services.

 

[Watershed]

Possibly these are geographic railcards which can, most likely, effectively only be used on the one train company's services.

Indeed. Such as the Cambrian or Highland Railcard.

 

[cholsey-choose]

The ASA has quite specific rules that this kind of language ('puffery') is allowed: https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/types-of-claims-puffery-and-expressions-of-opinion.html

The 'in no time' is almost exactly like the examples in the puffery paragraph on that page, in fact.

 

[J663738]

('puffery') ? surprised that term has not been banned.

'Nothing' works better at curing a headache than a new Panadol ultra!

 

[saismee]

Are there operator specific railcards? I didnt know that. May I ask which operator?

Club 50, Greater Anglia.

 

[yorksrob]

There's still many railcards that people aged 30-60 can get. Two Together, Family and Friends, Disabled Persons (if applicable), plus some operator-specific ones.

Not one that covers the whole network for everyone though.

 

[styles]

My parents made a rare train journey last year and bought a Two Together Railcard on my advice (albeit at a promotional rate), despite having absolutely no plans to use the train again. And to my knowledge they haven't - the Railcard must be a couple of months off expiring by now. The (discounted) purchase price was less than the saving on the tickets they were buying, though. For some journeys, that would be true even if you pay full price for the Railcard.

And this is why about 3 years ago I had around a dozen Railcards. When I went hiking with pals, we'd be travelling from London to Lakes/Snowdonia/Highlands/Peaks. The cost of the Railcard was £15pp, and that's pretty easy to make back when you're doing a return trip from London to Snowdonia.

Add to that I had my 26-30 Railcard, a family member's Disabled Person's Railcard, and a Friends & Family Railcard.

It did remind me of how ridiculous UK rail ticketing is that I had all these cards.

 

[janb]

All I can see to complain about is that the 1/3 off asterisk doesn’t explain anything. Like any scheme, it depends on your usage whether you get good value or not - and that is for the purchaser to evaluate.

Doesn't seem misleading at all, other than the asterisk leads nowhere to any other explainer.

The asterisk refers a strip of text at the bottom of the poster that mentions t+c's, minimum fares, time restrictions, eligibility criteria etc. However as you can see in the photo, the poster is not correctly positioned in the poster case which is why you can't see it in this example.

 

[akm]

('puffery') ? surprised that term has not been banned.

'Puffery' like a 'puff' of air, not 'poofery' like, well, something that might lead to the term not being used any more...

 

[cholsey-choose]

It did remind me of how ridiculous UK rail ticketing is that I had all these cards.

Not sure I agree here tbh. At least the discounts are transparent. It's better than airline ticketing where you have absolutely no reliable idea how much something will cost.

 

[styles]

Not sure I agree here tbh. At least the discounts are transparent. It's better than airline ticketing where you have absolutely no reliable idea how much something will cost.

I consider it ridiculous having to keep applying for and buying photo ID cards to get the best fares travelling with mates on simple journeys.

That's before we even get into split tickets, rovers, GroupSave, TOC-specific group discounts, rangers, regional Railcards, SuperFares, ScotRail Kids For A Quid, Club Avanti, LNER cashback, the fact that mature students can get a 16-25 railcard, Scotland NEC, Unizones, GTR money back guarantee, XC feeless Advance ticket changes, PlusBus, Nothern Duo, gold cards, RailMaster, Rail & Sail, flexipasses, GA pregnant passenger first class upgrades, SeatFrog, carnets, season tickets, flexi passes, etc etc.

 

[redreni]

The asterisk refers a strip of text at the bottom of the poster that mentions t+c's, minimum fares, time restrictions, eligibility criteria etc. However as you can see in the photo, the poster is not correctly positioned in the poster case which is why you can't see it in this example.

Yeah, could they potentially be in trouble if someone complained based on that photograph of that particular poster ad? The Advertising Standards Commission can presumably only consider the advert the complaint relates to and would have to consider it as it appeared, not how it might have been intended to appear?

At most I expect they would make a ruling saying it mustn't appear in that form again, confirm that the version that includes the small print would be acceptable provided the small print is clearly visible, and some sort of effort would have to be made to prevent it happening again.

If a consumer is misled by an advert because certain qualifications to the headline claim were concealed, even if they were concealed by accident rather than design, then in my view that is ultimately the advertiser's responsibility. Obviously if they want to complain to the ad agency about this, they could, with some justification.

I appreciate it is unlikely anyone would get as far as actually buying a Railcard without being made aware of the T&Cs (which are on the website and the paper application form), but that doesn't mean you can make a misleading claim in an advert. And '1/3 off rail travel' is definitely misleading if expressed without the relevant qualifications.

 

[renegademaster]

This in the same kind of category of "redbull didn't actually give me wings"

 

[redreni]

This in the same kind of category of "redbull didn't actually give me wings"

Well, in fairness, I would ban that slogan because it's exactly untrue both literally and figuratively.

But I take your point and I agree that "in no time" need not being taken literally.

 

[Haywain]

I would ban that slogan because it's exactly untrue both literally and figuratively.

It's the fact that it is so obviously untrue that makes it acceptable.

 

[yorksrob]

Not sure I agree here tbh. At least the discounts are transparent. It's better than airline ticketing where you have absolutely no reliable idea how much something will cost.

Although some longer distance operators are pushing us in that direction as well.