Problems with buying Thameslink tickets from Oyster Zone boundaries

[Katejo62]

I have a Oyster 60+ card.

Yesterday, I wanted to do an off peak day return to Brighton from St Pancras International. I tried to buy a ticket at my local station from the boundary of zone 6 beyond which my Oyster 60+ isn't valid.

I was told that Thameslink didn't allow this, and it wasn't worth it and would have to pay from St Pancras. The ticket from St Pancras (with a senior railcard) would be £15.90 but a ticket from boundary of zone 6 would be £18.

I asked why I couldn't then just buy a ticket from East Croydon (which I have done before in reverse when returning from Gatwick). The guy claimed that I would have to get out at East Croydon and get on again! I gave up and paid from St Pancras.

When I got home, I checked prices via a ticket machine. It allowed me to search for a ticket from boundary of zone 6 to Brighton and gave the price as £18. I then looked up the same off peak ticket from East Croydon to Brighton and that was £13! Why the £5 difference?

I have previously bought off peak tickets from boundary of zone 6 to Gatwick and then, on the way home, bought ones from Gatwick to East Croydon and the price was much the same.

 

[Watershed]

Welcome to the forum.

Buying an onward ticket from either Boundary Zone 6 or East Croydon (the last station within Zones 1-6 that fast trains stop at) is fine. The latter can be cheaper in some cases, as you can get cheaper "Thameslink only" fares to destinations like Gatwick or Brighton, which aren't available from Boundary Zone 6.

The staff at your local station were wrong; your 60+ Oyster is valid to combine with an onward ticket beyond Zone 6 across almost all operators (the only ones where it is not are EMR, Grand Central, Hull Trains and LNER). There is also no need to touch out and then re-enter the station when you change between your 60+ Oyster and your onward ticket.

You should complain to the operator whose station staff misled you about the rules for travelling beyond your 60+ card's validity. You should ask them for a refund of the difference between the fare you paid, and the East Croydon fare you could have bought. They might try to refuse you a refund, but I think it's worth persisting because such misinformation isn't acceptable. If staff aren't sure of the rules, they should check rather than making things up or guessing.

 

[Haywain]

You should complain to the operator whose station staff misled you about the rules for travelling beyond your 60+ card's validity. You should ask them for a refund of the difference between the fare you paid, and the East Croydon fare you could have bought. They might try to refuse you a refund, but I think it's worth persisting because such misinformation isn't acceptable. If staff aren't sure of the rules, they should check rather than making things up or guessing.

To be fair to the staff, it isn't an obvious thing to look for an East Croydon fare instead of the Boundary Zone 6 fare, and they could (and perhaps should) have just sold the Boundary fare. It's likely to just be fortunate that they are aware of the St Pancras fare.

 

[Watershed]

To be fair to the staff, it isn't an obvious thing to look for an East Croydon fare instead of the Boundary Zone 6 fare, and they could (and perhaps should) have just sold the Boundary fare. It's likely to just be fortunate that they are aware of the St Pancras fare.

Yes, and there would be no cause for complaint for offering the Boundary Zone fare without mentioning the cheaper East Croydon option. But the fact they wrongly claimed this not to be valid, and refused to sell it, is the basis of the complaint.

 

[Katejo62]

Yes I was sure that the staff member was wrong about getting out at East Croydon and a staff member in the Nation Rail ticket office at St Pancras confirmed that. The thing which threw me on Tuesday was the price difference between buying an off peak return from East Croydon to Brighton and buying one from 'Boundary of zone 6'. I had always thought that they were supposed to be close to identical if not identical. I was given £13.90 from East Croydon but £18 from the boundary even though the price from St Pancras Int was £15.90.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2025 ==

He didn't refuse to sell me one from East Croydon but just claimed I would have the inconvenience of having to get out at East Croydon. He appeared to say that it wasn't worth buying a ticket from boundary of zone 6 because the ticket from St Pancras was slightly less expensive.

 

[Haywain]

He appeared to say that it wasn't worth buying a ticket from boundary of zone 6 because the ticket from St Pancras was slightly less expensive.

The first part of that would seem to be an entirely valid point. Unfortunately, their misunderstanding of how you could use the East Croydon ticket resulted in an overcharge.

I had always thought that they were supposed to be close to identical if not identical.

There have always been cases where they vary, but the various TOC restricted tickets on the Brighton line results in greater variations and means that the most flexible tickets are also the most expensive and the BZ6 fare fits into that 'most flexible' category

 

[Katejo62]

I have done several off peak journeys from St Pancras to Gatwick since getting the Oyster 60+. On the outward journey I usually asked for boundary of zone 6 to Gatwick. On the return I have bought Gatwick to East Croydon. I checked what I paid last time and both tickets were much the same price. Next time I will stick to buying one from East Croydon. When I travel on other lines, it's not always clear which station qualifies as the boundary for the purposes of buying the ticket.

 

[Tester]

I have done several off peak journeys from St Pancras to Gatwick since getting the Oyster 60+. On the outward journey I usually asked for boundary of zone 6 to Gatwick. On the return I have bought Gatwick to East Croydon. I checked what I paid last time and both tickets were much the same price. Next time I will stick to buying one from East Croydon. When I travel on other lines, it's not always clear which station qualifies as the boundary for the purposes of buying the ticket.

An advantage of Boundary tickets, particularly for returns, is that they don't fix the route.

However for many journeys (and East Croydon to Gatwick is an excellent example) this is of no consequence.

 

[Watershed]

I have done several off peak journeys from St Pancras to Gatwick since getting the Oyster 60+. On the outward journey I usually asked for boundary of zone 6 to Gatwick. On the return I have bought Gatwick to East Croydon. I checked what I paid last time and both tickets were much the same price. Next time I will stick to buying one from East Croydon. When I travel on other lines, it's not always clear which station qualifies as the boundary for the purposes of buying the ticket.

Boundary Zone 6 is always a valid option. Otherwise you can look at the London Rail & Tube map to see what the last stations in Zones 1-6 are.

East Croydon is fairly unusual in terms of just how much you save by buying a ticket from there vs from Boundary Zone 6, but there are also other examples. Generally it's a question of trial and error.

 

[Haywain]

I will stick to buying one from East Croydon. When I travel on other lines, it's not always clear which station qualifies as the boundary for the purposes of buying the ticket.

It's also worth noting that East Croydon isn't the boundary station for zone 6, just to confuse matters.

 

[Katejo62]

Yes but the next stop on the route to Gatwick is beyond the Oyster zones. I don't know which I could use from Zone 6.

 

[Watershed]

Yes but the next stop on the route to Gatwick is beyond the Oyster zones. I don't know which I could use from Zone 6.

Gatwick is beyond Zones 1-6, however it is one of the few stations outside the Zones you can travel to with Oyster PAYG. Again, I recommend having a look at the London Rail & Tube map; it should clear things up as it shows which station is in which Zone, and how far you can use Oyster PAYG.

Although issued as an Oyster card, your 60+ pass is not valid for PAYG travel since you can't top it up with money - this means you can't use it to pay for travel beyond Zones 1-6.

If you're just heading to Gatwick, the ticket office wasn't entirely wrong with their suggestion of exiting and re-entering the barriers at East Croydon. If you're prepared to do that, it can save you a bit of money since the PAYG fare from East Croydon to Gatwick is £4.10 each way (off-peak), which is less than the cost of a paper ticket.

To use PAYG, you'd have to use a contactless card, or to buy a blue adult Oyster card which you top up. The latter could have a Senior Railcard applied to it to get 1/3 discount for off-peak fares. You'd touch out at East Croydon with your 60+ card, and then touch back in with your contactless card or blue Oyster card.

 

[Katejo62]

Welcome to the forum.

Buying an onward ticket from either Boundary Zone 6 or East Croydon (the last station within Zones 1-6 that fast trains stop at) is fine. The latter can be cheaper in some cases, as you can get cheaper "Thameslink only" fares to destinations like Gatwick or Brighton, which aren't available from Boundary Zone 6.

The staff at your local station were wrong; your 60+ Oyster is valid to combine with an onward ticket beyond Zone 6 across almost all operators (the only ones where it is not are EMR, Grand Central, Hull Trains and LNER). There is also no need to touch out and then re-enter the station when you change between your 60+ Oyster and your onward ticket.

You should complain to the operator whose station staff misled you about the rules for travelling beyond your 60+ card's validity. You should ask them for a refund of the difference between the fare you paid, and the East Croydon fare you could have bought. They might try to refuse you a refund, but I think it's worth persisting because such misinformation isn't acceptable. If staff aren't sure of the rules, they should check rather than making things up or guessing.

Today I went back to the local station to make my point. I didn't have to do as much as expected. The staff member had realised his mistake after I had left and his colleague told me that I should only have been charged the fare from East Croydon. I can get a refund of the difference if I return to the station tomorrow morning with my ticket from Tuesday. I had the sales receipt with me today but that isn't enough. I pointed out that I am lucky to still have the ticket. The outward part was swallowed by the ticket barrier in Brighton. Fortunately I used my Oyster 60+ to exit St Pancras on the way back so still have the return part of the ticket.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2025 ==

I am sure that there is nothing wrong with me buying a ticket from East Croydon or boundary of zone 6 to Gatwick. I know I can't add money to the 60+ so I buy a ticket to bridge the gap between zone 6 and my destination. There is No requirement for me to get out at East Croydon and go through ticket barriers. The same applied when I previously had a gold card for zones 1-4 (pre Covid lockdown). I could just buy a ticket extension to my destination.

 

[MikeWh]

Just to clarify, a 60+ Oyster card is treated as an off-peak zonal season ticket which means there is no requirement for the train to call at the point where you switch from the card to your ticket. The Brighton mainline is complicated by a couple of issues which is why there are such differences between boundary tickets and point to point tickets. The first is that the line splits in two before the boundary of zone 6 so the last station is either Purley or Coulsdon South. Traditionally most tickets to the South coast are priced the same from anywhere between East Croydon and Coulsdon South. The other is that this line still has many operator restricted tickets which undercut the unrestricted tickets by some margin. Boundary zone tickets have rarely, if ever, been set up for operator restrictions, hence the difference.

 

[redreni]

It's just an anomaly that no Thameslink-only fare has been set between Boundary Zone 6 and Brighton. The fare that has been set is routed Any Permitted rather than Thameslink Only which is why it's more expensive. It's the same price as the Any Permitted fare from East Croydon to Brighton.

The helpful thing to do would have been to sell the Thameslink-only fare from a suitable named station in substitution for the non-existent boundary fare you were asking for. Making you pay twice for the portion of your journey covered by your Oyster 60+ wasn't right and I am glad to read that's been recognised.

East Croydon is the most appropriate split point because, although it isn't shown on the map as the last station in zone 6, the fare from there is the same as from Coulsden South (which is shown on the map as the last station in zone 6, although it's questionable whether the train is deemed to pass through there as there's an avoiding line). Since the train stops at East Croydon, it is uncontroversially a valid split point (though most people would say it would still be a valid split point whether the train stops there or not).

The general rule when travelling beyond zones 1-6 with your 60+ Oyster is you can buy an extension ticket from the zone boundary or from a named station (which should be the last station where your 60+ Oyster is valid), and the train needn't necessarily stop at the station where you change from the 60+ Oyster to the extension ticket.

As this case illustrates, it is worth checking prices for both the boundary zone 6 ticket and the ticket from a named station, as while they're often the same, they aren't always. Consider boundary zone 6 to Oxford. The Boundary Zone 6 ticket lets you go from Paddington or Marylebone, but it's slightly more expensive than the West Drayton to Oxford ticket which doesn't allow you to go from Marylebone.

 

[Katejo62]

When I returned from Brighton on Tuesday evening, there was a track inspection problem with trains going to Victoria and 3 consecutive trains had been cancelled. My Thameslink one was pretty full. If I had had an extension ticket tied to the Southern rail network, would it have been accepted on Thameslink? When I return from Gatwick, I prefer to use Thameslink but could I get on a Southern train to Victoria (excluding Gatwick Express)? I haven't risked trying it.

Last time I went to Gatwick, I had an extension ticket from boundary of zone 6 to Gatwick (bought with a senior railcard). I reached the ticket gate at Gatwick and it blocked me from going through. I assumed that they wanted to test/check my senior railcard but there was no staff member in sight to let me through.

 

[Watershed]

When I returned from Brighton on Tuesday evening, there was a track inspection problem with trains going to Victoria and 3 consecutive trains had been cancelled. My Thameslink one was pretty full. If I had had an extension ticket tied to the Southern rail network, would it have been accepted on Thameslink? When I return from Gatwick, I prefer to use Thameslink but could I get on a Southern train to Victoria (excluding Gatwick Express)? I haven't risked trying it.

Legally speaking, it's highly doubtful that "Thameslink only" actually restricts you to Thameslink branded trains in the way that it is implied. It is generally understood that its effect is "Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) only" - GTR are the operator of Thameslink, Southern, Great Northern and Gatwick Express branded services

Therefore a "Thameslink only" (i.e. "GTR only") ticket isn't actually particularly restrictive for most journeys. It basically just prevents you from taking other operators like GWR between Gatwick and Redhill, for example - not that I imagine you'd be interested in doing so.

There is an ongoing class action lawsuit about GTR's purported brand restrictions; the effectiveness of the restrictions is discussed in more detail here. Suffice it to say, there have been no recent reports of GTR trying to enforce the brand restrictions, as they appear to be aware it could exacerbate their legal troubles.

Therefore, I wouldn't be overly worried about using a "Thameslink only" ticket on a Southern or Gatwick Express branded train. That being said, if there are multiple cancellations it's possible that GTR would advertise "ticket acceptance" on their other brands, which would mean that you are 100% in the clear.

Last time I went to Gatwick, I had an extension ticket from boundary of zone 6 to Gatwick (bought with a senior railcard). I reached the ticket gate at Gatwick and it blocked me from going through. I assumed that they wanted to test/check my senior railcard but there was no staff member in sight to let me through.

GTR do appear to set their gatelines up to block some tickets, such as Advance tickets and occasionally Railcard discounted tickets, for a manual inspection. The problem is that they often reject so many tickets that it's not feasible for staff to inspect all of the tickets (and Railcards) in detail, so they just wave you through!

As I understand it, it's a requirement of Health & Safety law that there should always be a member of staff at any gateline that's in operation - or alternatively a help point, with a camera to show your ticket, you can use to speak to someone. If neither are present, at least one of the gates should be left open (generally a wide gate).

 

[Sonic1234]

If neither are present, at least one of the gates should be left open (generally a wide gate).

As I understand, if no staff are present all gates should be left open. In practice, often just the wide gate gets left open because stations are graded on the time the gates are active, and this fools the gate software that the gates are in operation.

I did see on LU today one of the normal gates left open and the others closed with no staff present. What would have happened if a disabled passenger was stuck?

 

[yorkie]

I have a Oyster 60+ card.

Yesterday, I wanted to do an off peak day return to Brighton from St Pancras International. I tried to buy a ticket at my local station from the boundary of zone 6 beyond which my Oyster 60+ isn't valid.

I was told that Thameslink didn't allow this, and it wasn't worth it and would have to pay from St Pancras. The ticket from St Pancras (with a senior railcard) would be £15.90 but a ticket from boundary of zone 6 would be £18.

I asked why I couldn't then just buy a ticket from East Croydon (which I have done before in reverse when returning from Gatwick). The guy claimed that I would have to get out at East Croydon and get on again! I gave up and paid from St Pancras.

When I got home, I checked prices via a ticket machine. It allowed me to search for a ticket from boundary of zone 6 to Brighton and gave the price as £18. I then looked up the same off peak ticket from East Croydon to Brighton and that was £13! Why the £5 difference?

I have previously bought off peak tickets from boundary of zone 6 to Gatwick and then, on the way home, bought ones from Gatwick to East Croydon and the price was much the same.

The ticket office clerk was completely wrong (this is not anywhere near as uncommon as it should be, sadly).

Our ticketing site will allow you to plan your journey, and select that you already hold a 60+ Oyster card, and will issue either a Boundary Zone fare or an appropriate fare from a named station accordingly.

Click on the cog icon for advanced options.

RailUK Tickets, powered by Trainsplit

TrainSplit is a free service that makes it easy to find the cheapest train tickets for your journey.

tickets-beta.railforums.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2025 ==

f I had had an extension ticket tied to the Southern rail network, would it have been accepted on Thameslink? When I return from Gatwick, I prefer to use Thameslink but could I get on a Southern train to Victoria (excluding Gatwick Express)? I haven't risked trying it.

There is no provision in the National Rail Conditions of Travel, or the Ticketing Settlement Agreement (which all TOCs must comply with, as a condition of their passenger license) for brand specific restrictions.
Thameslink, Southern, Great Northern and Gatwick Express are all merely brand names for the train operating company GTR; therefore, any attempt to sell more expensive tickets to enable travel on more than one brand and/or any attempt to deny travel to ticketholders on some of their brands is clearly unlawful.

This matter is being pursued through the courts:

Collective competition claim against Govia Thameslink Railway

This press release hit the newswires yesterday: COLLECTIVE COMPETITION CLAIM AGAINST GOVIA THAMESLINK RAILWAY FOR OVERCHARGING RAIL PASSENGERS ON BRIGHTON MAINLINE SINCE OCTOBER 2015 London 6 July 2021 – An application to commence an opt-out collective action (“Claim”) was launched in the...

www.railforums.co.uk

In the meantime, I am aware of passengers who are carrying out 'mystery shopping' by travelling on brand restricted tickets on the 'wrong' brand, to see if they get charged any extra; so far they haven't been. That's very telling indeed.

If you are charged extra for travelling on the wrong brand, pay under duress, request a receipt and documentation in writing, keep all tickets/excess/penalty fares and contact us immediately so that we can assist you in seeking a full refund and apology from the company.

 

[Katejo62]

Good news! I have just been back to my local station and got the £1.95 refunded to my card. Told that if I go to Brighton again, I need to ask for a ticket from East Croydon not the zone 6 boundary. I don't think he would have done it if I hadn't had my return ticket available. He asked for the outward ticket too but that was swallowed by the ticket barrier in Brighton. Only had the return because I had exited St Pancras with my Oyster 60+.