Northern incident

[Greenlegged78]

Before anyone replies to this saying that it's my own fault and that I should take full accountability for my actions I do but I am also really scared so please just genuine advice.
I caught a train to Bradford from Manchester and the ticket conductor wants to check my railcard where I had no issue showing as I had done this before in other train stations and had nothing to hide. The conductor was just about to let me go until he stated that I had a network railcard and not a 16-25 railcard where a network railcard is not applicable outside of London and down south. I never knew this and was genuinely shocked I guess I am naive and thought I had the 16-25 railcard since my mother bought it using the Monzo scheme. The 16-25 railcard is the exact same price as the network railcard when the Monzo discount was applied and if I knew of course I would have immediately changed the railcard. I have used the railcard about 9 times in the one month and have been stopped a couple of times where no one has said anything to me. Also when I say 9 times some of them are a couple of times in a day I don't know if that makes a difference. Im rlly upset with myself and do have a diagnosis of Autism which can impact how I process information presented to me. I completely understand I am at fault since at the end of the day I failed to produce a valid train ticket. I just don't want to get convicted and will pay the penalty fine or the settlement offer if offered I just want any advice and what could happen? I'm rlly scared that I will be prosecuted without a settlement offer . I know I made a mistake and I'm trying to rectify it I just really did make a genuine mistake which Northern have mentioned they can recognise more recently. In the future I need to be more clued on I just didn't know genuinely

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Greenlegged78. Welcome to the forum. When was it that you got stopped? Yesterday? Or earlier? Were you issued with any paperwork by Northern at the time and/or have you subsequently received any letter(s) in the post from them. If either applies, could you upload copies of same? Please be sure to obscure or otherwise cover up your name and address and any reference number that may be showing.

P.S. Have you been using the Network Railcard, that you mention, to purchase (and then use) discounted tickets but with some other railcard discount applied, such as that applicable to a 16-25 railcard, on various other occasions? Were any of these journeys actually in the Network Railcard area (= primarily London and the surrounding area including much of the South of England)?

 

[Greenlegged78]

@Greenlegged78. Welcome to the forum. When was it that you got stopped? Yesterday? Or earlier? Were you issued with any paperwork by Northern at the time and/or have you subsequently received any letter(s) in the post from them. If either applies, could you upload a copy of same? Please be sure to obscure or cover up your name and address and any reference number showing.

P.S. Have you been using the Network Railcard that you mention to purchase (and then use) discounted tickets but with some other railcard discount applied, such as that applicable to a 16-25 railcard, on various other occasions? Were any of these journeys actually in the Network Railcard area (= primarily London and the surrounding area including much of the South of England)?

Hi there I got stopped about two weeks ago and received a letter in the post a few days ago since I had changed addresss
I was not issued with any paperwork from Northern at the time and have just uploaded the letter I opened today
Yes I was using a network railcard and using the discount which comes from a 16-25 railcard but only realised when the conductor told me and explained the difference which I should have known but unfortunately didn't . I have used this discount on 9 other occasions in the past month where my railcard was issued just over a month ago. I have not used this railcard in London at all

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2025 ==

Hi there I got stopped about two weeks ago and received a letter in the post a few days ago since I had changed addresss
I was not issued with any paperwork from Northern at the time and have just uploaded the letter I opened today
Yes I was using a network railcard and using the discount which comes from a 16-25 railcard but only realised when the conductor told me and explained the difference which I should have known but unfortunately didn't . I have used this discount on 9 other occasions in the past month where my railcard was issued just over a month ago. I have not used this railcard in London at all

 

[Bungle158]

You won't be judged on this forum and posters are only "called out" for blatant and persistent lying when other members are attempting to assist them.

There really isn't any need to be scared, if you cooperate with Northern, you will almost certainly obtain a settlement away from the courts. Just be prepared for your travel history to be checked and a bill for the journeys made using your Network Card for discount. They will be unlikely to consider the monies you already spent on these in their calculations. In addition, there will almost certainly be an admin fee, currently c£150 to deal with. Probably not entirely what you want to hear, but certainly sortable. Good luck!

 

[Greenlegged78]

You won't be judged on this forum and posters are only "called out" for blatant and persistent lying when other members are attempting to assist them.

There really isn't any need to be scared, if you cooperate with Northern, you will almost certainly obtain a settlement away from the courts. Just be prepared for your travel history to be checked and a bill for the journeys made using your Network Card for discount. They will be unlikely to consider the monies you already spent on these in their calculations. In addition, there will almost certainly be an admin fee, currently c£150 to deal with. Probably not entirely what you want to hear, but certainly sortable. Good luck!

Will it be the whole journey or just the discount saved ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2025 ==

You won't be judged on this forum and posters are only "called out" for blatant and persistent lying when other members are attempting to assist them.

There really isn't any need to be scared, if you cooperate with Northern, you will almost certainly obtain a settlement away from the courts. Just be prepared for your travel history to be checked and a bill for the journeys made using your Network Card for discount. They will be unlikely to consider the monies you already spent on these in their calculations. In addition, there will almost certainly be an admin fee, currently c£150 to deal with. Probably not entirely what you want to hear, but certainly sortable. Good luck!

Sorry I think you already answered it

 

[Watershed]

Will it be the whole journey or just the discount saved ?

Unfortunately they are likely to charge you for the cost of an undiscounted Anytime Single/Return for each of the journeys you made. That's likely to result in a quite substantial settlement cost, far outweighing their true losses, but unfortunately there is no right to 'appeal' a settlement offer - ultimately if you can't agree a figure, they can and will just take it to Court.

In fairness, in Court they would not necessarily be awarded the same amount towards the fares - it is supposed to be about restitution, which arguably only requires the discount to be repaid, and certainly as a minimum would require the fares paid to be deducted.

Of course, as you say you don't want to have a conviction, you are pretty much limited to whatever settlement figure they state.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Greenlegged78. In the meantime, if you are eligible for a 16-25 railcard, get yourself one for future travel. The Network Railcard, despite its name, isnt valid outside of its local area, i.e. up North.

 

[Greenlegged78]

Unfortunately they are likely to charge you for the cost of an undiscounted Anytime Single/Return for each of the journeys you made. That's likely to result in a quite substantial settlement cost, far outweighing their true losses, but unfortunately there is no right to 'appeal' a settlement offer - ultimately if you can't agree a figure, they can and will just take it to Court.

In fairness, in Court they would not necessarily be awarded the same amount towards the fares - it is supposed to be about restitution, which arguably only requires the discount to be repaid, and certainly as a minimum would require the fares paid to be deducted.

Of course, as you say you don't want to have a conviction, you are pretty much limited to whatever settlement figure they state.

The tickets all together cost about £90 and it would be admin fee as well which is £150? Could it be more than that?

 

[AlterEgo]

The tickets all together cost about £90 and it would be admin fee as well which is £150? Could it be more than that?

Have all the tickets you've been buying been Anytime Singles?

If you tell us the journeys involved (the station pairs) we can tell you what they will probably charge you.

 

[Greenlegged78]

Have all the tickets you've been buying been Anytime Singles?

If you tell us the journeys involved (the station pairs) we can tell you what they will probably charge you.

Thank you so much for your advice
Tickets
1) Mcr Victoria to Bradford interchange ( £10.95 off peak day single)
2) Mcr Oxford road to Salford central ( Anytime day single £2.35)
3) Stafford to Manchester picadilly (Advance single £11.29)
4) University to Birmingham new street (Anytime day single £3.50)
5) Birmingham new street to University ( Evening day single standard £3.50)
6) University (Birmingham) - Birmingham new street ( Anytime day single £3.50)
7) Manchester picadilly to University (Birmingham) ( £18.40 advance single)
8) Stechford - Birmingham new street (£2.50 Off peak day return)
9) Birmingham new street - Manchester picadilly ( advance single £19.90)
Please crunch the numbers if you are free and let me know what sort of fine to expect

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2025 ==

Thank you so much for your advice
Tickets
1) Mcr Victoria to Bradford interchange ( £10.95 off peak day single)
2) Mcr Oxford road to Salford central ( Anytime day single £2.35)
3) Stafford to Manchester picadilly (Advance single £11.29)
4) University to Birmingham new street (Anytime day single £3.50)
5) Birmingham new street to University ( Evening day single standard £3.50)
6) University (Birmingham) - Birmingham new street ( Anytime day single £3.50)
7) Manchester picadilly to University (Birmingham) ( £18.40 advance single)
8) Stechford - Birmingham new street (£2.50 Off peak day return)
9) Birmingham new street - Manchester picadilly ( advance single £19.90)
Please crunch the numbers if you are free and let me know what sort of fine to expect

Can anyone provide advice about how to work out the cost for an anytime day single for the journey is the times taken into account ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2025 ==

Thank you so much for your advice
Tickets
1) Mcr Victoria to Bradford interchange ( £10.95 off peak day single)
2) Mcr Oxford road to Salford central ( Anytime day single £2.35)
3) Stafford to Manchester picadilly (Advance single £11.29)
4) University to Birmingham new street (Anytime day single £3.50)
5) Birmingham new street to University ( Evening day single standard £3.50)
6) University (Birmingham) - Birmingham new street ( Anytime day single £3.50)
7) Manchester picadilly to University (Birmingham) ( £18.40 advance single)
8) Stechford - Birmingham new street (£2.50 Off peak day return)
9) Birmingham new street - Manchester picadilly ( advance single £19.90)
Please crunch the numbers if you are free and let me know what sort of fine to expect

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2025 ==


Can anyone provide advice about how to work out the cost for an anytime day single for the journey is the times taken into account ?

I worked it out to be about £280 ish pounds please correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Greenlegged78]

Thank you so much for your advice
Tickets
1) Mcr Victoria to Bradford interchange ( £10.95 off peak day single)
2) Mcr Oxford road to Salford central ( Anytime day single £2.35)
3) Stafford to Manchester picadilly (Advance single £11.29)
4) University to Birmingham new street (Anytime day single £3.50)
5) Birmingham new street to University ( Evening day single standard £3.50)
6) University (Birmingham) - Birmingham new street ( Anytime day single £3.50)
7) Manchester picadilly to University (Birmingham) ( £18.40 advance single)
8) Stechford - Birmingham new street (£2.50 Off peak day return)
9) Birmingham new street - Manchester picadilly ( advance single £19.90)
Please crunch the numbers if you are free and let me know what sort of fine to expect

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2025 ==


Can anyone provide advice about how to work out the cost for an anytime day single for the journey is the times taken into account ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2025 ==


I worked it out to be about £280 ish pounds please correct me if I'm wrong

Looks like all my wages this month will be going on fines it's a good life lesson I guess

 

[Greenlegged78]

Thank you so much for your advice
Tickets
1) Mcr Victoria to Bradford interchange ( £10.95 off peak day single)
2) Mcr Oxford road to Salford central ( Anytime day single £2.35)
3) Stafford to Manchester picadilly (Advance single £11.29)
4) University to Birmingham new street (Anytime day single £3.50)
5) Birmingham new street to University ( Evening day single standard £3.50)
6) University (Birmingham) - Birmingham new street ( Anytime day single £3.50)
7) Manchester picadilly to University (Birmingham) ( £18.40 advance single)
8) Stechford - Birmingham new street (£2.50 Off peak day return)
9) Birmingham new street - Manchester picadilly ( advance single £19.90)
Please crunch the numbers if you are free and let me know what sort of fine to expect

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2025 ==


Can anyone provide advice about how to work out the cost for an anytime day single for the journey is the times taken into account ?

I worked it out to be about £280 ish pounds please correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Here's my calculation. Total £178.10 in fares due, plus the three figure admin fee on top. Hopefully will work out less than this.

Tickets
1) Mcr Victoria to Bradford interchange ( £10.95 off peak day single) Anytime Day Single £18.30 (route "via Hebden Bridge")
2) Mcr Oxford road to Salford central ( Anytime day single £2.35) Anytime Day Single £3.60
3) Stafford to Manchester picadilly (Advance single £11.29) Anytime Day Single £33.60

4) University to Birmingham new street (Anytime day single £3.50) Same
5) Birmingham new street to University ( Evening day single standard £3.50) Same
6) University (Birmingham) - Birmingham new street ( Anytime day single £3.50) Same

7) Manchester picadilly to University (Birmingham) ( £18.40 advance single) Anytime Single £57.60
8) Stechford - Birmingham new street (£2.50 Off peak day return) 2 x Anytime Day Singles £3.70 (each)
9) Birmingham new street - Manchester picadilly ( advance single £19.90) Anytime Single £57.60
Please crunch the numbers if you are free and let me know what sort of fine to expect

Not a fine as such. Just the incorrectly paid fares plus the admin fee. You won't have to pay again if the correct fare was paid at the time.

 

[Greenlegged78]

You won't be judged on this forum and posters are only "called out" for blatant and persistent lying when other members are attempting to assist them.

There really isn't any need to be scared, if you cooperate with Northern, you will almost certainly obtain a settlement away from the courts. Just be prepared for your travel history to be checked and a bill for the journeys made using your Network Card for discount. They will be unlikely to consider the monies you already spent on these in their calculations. In addition, there will almost certainly be an admin fee, currently c£150 to deal with. Probably not entirely what you want to hear, but certainly sortable. Good luck!

Would they try look at anything else other than use of the railcard since the letter concerned only the railcard?

 

[Starmill]

The 16-25 railcard is the exact same price as the network railcard when the Monzo discount was applied and if I knew of course I would have immediately changed the railcard.

Are you under 26 or eligible under the mature student criteria for a 16-25 railcard though?

If you are you need to get the correct railcard, as advised above. Assuming that you would like to keep taking the train, this makes sense to do now. You will have to buy it again.

 

[John R]

Would they try look at anything else other than use of the railcard since the letter concerned only the railcard?

Yes, they might well look for other examples of suspicious ticket patterns. The classic one being tickets purchased for a short one station trip into a main city, especially if you live nowhere near the station.

 

[Greenlegged78]

Are you under 26 or eligible under the mature student criteria for a 16-25 railcard though?

If you are you need to get the correct railcard, as advised above. Assuming that you would like to keep taking the train, this makes sense to do now. You will have to buy it again.

I cant afford it at the minute so I need to look into the student bank deals they are doing today

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2025 ==

Yes, they might well look for other examples of suspicious ticket patterns. The classic one being tickets purchased for a short one station trip into a main city, especially if you live nowhere near the station.

Can you give an example of this? Sorry I don't really understand

 

[Bungle158]

They will almost certainly investigate your travel patterns.That's one of the reasons that the process can take a while. If your case turns on only use of the wrong discount card, you need not be further concerned. However, if there are any other issues or suggestion of fare avoidance, these will be flagged. They would include purchase of short fares, that is to say presenting a ticket from station B to A, when you actually board at station C,10 miles further out and consequently, a more expensive journey.

I am not suggesting this is the case, merely attempting an explanation.

 

[AlterEgo]

Northern don't usually investigate historic offending in this way, do they?

 

[Greenlegged78]

They will almost certainly investigate your travel patterns.That's one of the reasons that the process can take a while. If your case turns on only use of the wrong discount card, you need not be further concerned. However, if there are any other issues or suggestion of fare avoidance, these will be flagged. They would include purchase of short fares, that is to say presenting a ticket from station B to A, when you actually board at station C,10 miles further out and consequently, a more expensive journey.

I am not suggesting this is the case, merely attempting an explanation.

I meant in one of my journeys there was a ten minute gap between my tickets where I stayed on one more stop where there is about a 1 ish mile difference between the stops and it takes about 6-15 minutes to get there? I just wondered if that could be raised as suspicious or if it would be overlooked ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2025 ==

I meant in one of my journeys there was a ten minute gap between my tickets where I stayed on one more stop where there is about a 1 ish mile difference between the stops and it takes about 6-15 minutes to get there? I just wondered if that could be raised as suspicious or if it would be overlooked ?

11 minute difference actually

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2025 ==

I meant in one of my journeys there was a ten minute gap between my tickets where I stayed on one more stop where there is about a 1 ish mile difference between the stops and it takes about 6-15 minutes to get there? I just wondered if that could be raised as suspicious or if it would be overlooked ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2025 ==


11 minute difference actually

But this doesn't relate to my use of a valid railcard I know it is wrong and I just really regret all of it but yh

 

[SuspectUsual]

I meant in one of my journeys there was a ten minute gap between my tickets where I stayed on one more stop where there is about a 1 ish mile difference between the stops and it takes about 6-15 minutes to get there? I just wondered if that could be raised as suspicious or if it would be overlooked ?

Sorry if I'm being thick, but I don't understand what you're saying. Clearly you're worried about Northern finding "something else" in your purchase history - if you can be clearer about it we should be able to advise

 

[Greenlegged78]

Sorry if I'm being thick, but I don't understand what you're saying. Clearly you're worried about Northern finding "something else" in your purchase history - if you can be clearer about it we should be able to advise

Will I get reported on this website though?

 

[SuspectUsual]

Will I get reported on this website though?

Nobody who advises people on here will report anything to a train company.

However, whilst we know that people from train companies do read what gets said here, we have no evidence of anything subsequently being used again st someone asking our advice

If you read through other threads, you'll see people asking for help often give us *very* detailed descriptions (dates, times, stations, what they've done wrong etc etc) and I'm not aware of any of them subsequently coming back and complaining the train company has dealt with them worse as a result.

 

[Greenlegged78]

Nobody who advises people on here will report anything to a train company.

However, whilst we know that people from train companies do read what gets said here, we have no evidence of anything subsequently being used again st someone asking our advice

If you read through other threads, you'll see people asking for help often give us *very* detailed descriptions (dates, times, stations, what they've done wrong etc etc) and I'm not aware of any of them subsequently coming back and complaining the train company has dealt with them worse as a result.

Ok so
When I caught the train from mcr oxf rd to Salford central it was x:27 to x:46
And the train from mcr victoria to bradford interchange
Was x:57 to (x+1): 53
So basically I had stayed on the train for one more stop and left at mcr victoria to catch the next train rather than booking a separate train from Salford central
It takes about 6-15 minutes to get there and I wanted to know if it looked suspicious
Mcr Victoria is the next stop after Salford central
I guess I was trying to save money and see how wrong that was of me I was also going through a lot which doesn't excuse anything but yeah
The x's represent numbers of the first two digits of the time (24 hours) and the x+1 is an hour after if that makes sense

 

[AlterEgo]

Ok so
When I caught the train from mcr oxf rd to Salford central it was x:27 to x:46
And the train from mcr victoria to bradford interchange
Was x:57 to (x+1): 53
So basically I had stayed on the train for one more stop and left at mcr victoria to catch the next train rather than booking a separate train from Salford central
It takes about 6-15 minutes to get there and I wanted to know if it looked suspicious
Mcr Victoria is the next stop after Salford central
I guess I was trying to save money and see how wrong that was of me I was also going through a lot which doesn't excuse anything but yeah
The x's represent numbers of the first two digits of the time (24 hours) and the x+1 is an hour after if that makes sense

If they do bother to check purchase history (I don't think they're really that bothered usually) they'll be more interested in your short tickets bought around the Birmingham area I expect.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Greenlegged78. Although you didn't actually have a valid ticket for the journey from Manchester Victoria to Bradford Interchange, as you'd inappropriately applied the railcard discount, when you travelled from Manchester Oxford Road to Salford Central, and then over-travelled to Manchester Victoria the very same journey, you could have just bought the one ticket from 'Manchester Stns' to 'Bradford YK Stns', it's valid / the same £16.50 price when travelling from Manchester Oxford Road to Bradford Interchange as it is from Manchester Victoria, if travelling via Hebden Bridge.

 

[Greenlegged78]

@Greenlegged78. Although you didn't actually have a valid ticket for the journey from Manchester Victoria to Bradford Interchange, as you'd inappropriately applied the railcard discount, when you travelled from Manchester Oxford Road to Salford Central, and then over-travelled to Manchester Victoria the very same journey, you could have just bought the one ticket from 'Manchester Stns' to 'Bradford YK Stns', it's valid / the same £16.50 price when travelling from Manchester Oxford Road to Bradford Interchange as it is from Manchester Victoria, if travelling via Hebden Bridge.

Very true I didn't know if I was going to make it in time - do you think this ticket activity looks suspicious though? And if so how bad is it looking ☹️

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2025 ==

If they do bother to check purchase history (I don't think they're really that bothered usually) they'll be more interested in your short tickets bought around the Birmingham area I expect.

All the Birmingham ones are fine

 

[Starmill]

If they do bother to check purchase history (I don't think they're really that bothered usually) they'll be more interested in your short tickets bought around the Birmingham area I expect.

They definitely do look at least occasionally as I've seen the excel copies myself. However, I suspect that there's a big enough difference in more general attitude towards it that what you say is correct.

 

[Greenlegged78]

@Greenlegged78. Although you didn't actually have a valid ticket for the journey from Manchester Victoria to Bradford Interchange, as you'd inappropriately applied the railcard discount, when you travelled from Manchester Oxford Road to Salford Central, and then over-travelled to Manchester Victoria the very same journey, you could have just bought the one ticket from 'Manchester Stns' to 'Bradford YK Stns', it's valid / the same £16.50 price when travelling from Manchester Oxford Road to Bradford Interchange as it is from Manchester Victoria, if travelling via Hebden Bridge.

Will they look at the overtravelling to manchester Victoria? Does it rlly look that obvious ? Thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2025 ==

They definitely do look at least occasionally as I've seen the excel copies myself. However, I suspect that there's a big enough difference in more general attitude towards it that what you say is correct.

So they would look at CCTV footage of the Salford central and manchester Victoria ?

 

[Starmill]

So they would look at CCTV footage of the Salford central and manchester Victoria ?

CCTV footage is rarely stored for very long, sometimes it's stored for just a few days, and sometimes it's of too poor quality to determine a lot from anyway. Also, more importantly, how detailed of a description of what you look like could they have? Do a lot of other people look like you?