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Sleeper train

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Mk1dreamer

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I have a broken knee (12 weeks of boredom at home lol) so no budget issues to run or use just for fun what sleeper routes would you guys like to see back or existed back in the day during the BR days. I got my interest in to the railway and trains in general late in life so sorry for any dumb questions or discussions

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I have a broken knee (12 weeks of boredom at home lol) so no budget issues to run or use just for fun what sleeper routes would you guys like to see back or existed back in the day during the BR days. I got my interest in to the railway and trains in general late in life so sorry for any dumb questions or discussions
I would like to hear any funny stories or nostalgic memories as well as I will never get to truly enjoy the experience as I'm 6ft 11 and no bed would be comfortable for a night sleep lol
 
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styles

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Edinburgh to Amsterdam. Could be done in 8h after some upgrades. Bed at 10pm, arrive 6am, remain on board until 7:30am optionally.
 

Mk1dreamer

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Bristol TM-New Street-Edinburgh
Used that a few times back in the day
How long did it take? Good dinner and sleep?

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Edinburgh to Amsterdam. Could be done in 8h after some upgrades. Bed at 10pm, arrive 6am, remain on board until 7:30am optionally.
That would be nice as I know flights are cheaper but wouldn't you like to wake up on vacation or your destination refreshed ready to go
 

styles

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That would be nice as I know flights are cheaper but wouldn't you like to wake up on vacation or your destination refreshed ready to go
I sleep very well on sleeper trains (in sleeping berths, not in seats). Quick shower, relaxing breakfast in the dining car. It's my preferred way of travelling to London for work.
 

Mk1dreamer

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I sleep very well on sleeper trains (in sleeping berths, not in seats). Quick shower, relaxing breakfast in the dining car. It's my preferred way of travelling to London for work.
Lol I'm jealous, my partner is only 5ft 1 and has no interest in sleeper trains and I'm like I wish I could be your size for this
 

D6130

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The first time I travelled in a Mark 3 sleeper - from Euston to Glasgow via Dumfries in May 1983 - should have been an enjoyable and comfortable experience. However the couple in the adjacent compartment were obviously heavy smokers and the wife - who was lying about a foot away from me through the partition wall - spent the entire journey having long, deep and loud bronchial coughing fits. There was no way I could get any sleep at all....and when I alighted exhausted at Glasgow Central, there was Mrs Chainsmoker puffing away on the platform desperately trying to regain her normal nicotine level.
 

styles

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Lol I'm jealous, my partner is only 5ft 1 and has no interest in sleeper trains and I'm like I wish I could be your size for this
Ah yes, I am grateful for not being particularly tall or wide!

The beds are not the comfiest I've slept on, but a train, pretty decent.

I imagine a lot of people on their way back from Amsterdam would sleep pretty well after partaking in some of the local botanicals mind.
 

Mk1dreamer

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The first time I travelled in a Mark 3 sleeper - from Euston to Glasgow via Dumfries in May 1983 - should have been an enjoyable and comfortable experience. However the couple in the adjacent compartment were obviously heavy smokers and the wife - who was lying about a foot away from me through the partition wall - spent the entire journey having long, deep and loud bronchial coughing fits. There was no way I could get any sleep at all....and when I alighted exhausted at Glasgow Central, there was Mrs Chainsmoker puffing away on the platform desperately trying to regain her normal nicotine level.
Oh that is bad luck unfortunately

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Ah yes, I am grateful for not being particularly tall or wide!

The beds are not the comfiest I've slept on, but a train, pretty decent.

I imagine a lot of people on their way back from Amsterdam would sleep pretty well after partaking in some of the local botanicals mind.
Oh yes I can imagine lol
 

465fan

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I think the Cornish Sleeper from London is excessive, not least because a 5.5hr daytime journey isn't a Sleeper route.

I also, however, happen to think that the existing Scottish sleeper operation is a bit rubbish. I'm glad it's going to start going via Birmingham International, that's inherently sensible. I actually thought that should have happened a long time ago (probably the same as Milton Keynes vice Watford).

In terms of what Sleeper services don't exist but maybe should?

Could you manage the demand sufficiently to have just Inverness and Aberdeen on one train; whilst running Fort Bill and Oban on a separate one? I always thought Oban was a missing opportunity, but wouldn't profess to know the demand.

In future, would you ever be able to legitimately look for something like a Cambridge start on the Cornish, solely to open up any pent-up demand in Anglia, and offer other connectivity? At least it would extend the journey out, and do something new. It could always pick people up at somewhere like Finsbury Park or Stratford on its way through, and then on the way out of town too.

And, given there's an all-day service from West Yorkshire, the North East and such to Plymouth on XC, could you run something from Newcastle / Edinburgh down the East Coast, up through Birmingham, and down to Cornwall? There's some serious potential catchment at York, Doncaster and the like. Might even be very popular.
 

The Planner

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I also, however, happen to think that the existing Scottish sleeper operation is a bit rubbish. I'm glad it's going to start going via Birmingham International, that's inherently sensible. I actually thought that should have happened a long time ago (probably the same as Milton Keynes vice Watford).
Only one of them is, not both.
 

Bertone

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The first time I travelled in a Mark 3 sleeper - from Euston to Glasgow via Dumfries in May 1983 - should have been an enjoyable and comfortable experience. However the couple in the adjacent compartment were obviously heavy smokers and the wife - who was lying about a foot away from me through the partition wall - spent the entire journey having long, deep and loud bronchial coughing fits. There was no way I could get any sleep at all....and when I alighted exhausted at Glasgow Central, there was Mrs Chainsmoker puffing away on the platform desperately trying to regain her normal nicotine level.
”Similar“ experience in the 1970’s when traveling to Glasgow for the first time when the couple in the next berth were not smokers but quite noisy in a rather “romantic“ fashion if you get my drift!
Many subsequent journeys were not so disturbing thank goodness.
 

styles

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I think the Cornish Sleeper from London is excessive, not least because a 5.5hr daytime journey isn't a Sleeper route.
There's a lot of people who would prefer to take a sleeper than lose the bulk of a work day, or realistically a full day with their family by travelling a day either side then paying for 2 hotel stays.
I also, however, happen to think that the existing Scottish sleeper operation is a bit rubbish. I'm glad it's going to start going via Birmingham International, that's inherently sensible. I actually thought that should have happened a long time ago (probably the same as Milton Keynes vice Watford).
My only real gripe with the Caledonian Sleeper is that it sells out too quickly and doesn't have enough budget options. If anything, I'd add extra services to the existing routes, on new rolling stock with 4-berth compartments, smaller catering offering, and lower price point.
Could you manage the demand sufficiently to have just Inverness and Aberdeen on one train; whilst running Fort Bill and Oban on a separate one? I always thought Oban was a missing opportunity, but wouldn't profess to know the demand.
I'm not sure Oban would have a huge business demand, though I reckon it would have some. It may get tourist demand for connections to the Hebrides mind.
And, given there's an all-day service from West Yorkshire, the North East and such to Plymouth on XC, could you run something from Newcastle / Edinburgh down the East Coast, up through Birmingham, and down to Cornwall? There's some serious potential catchment at York, Doncaster and the like. Might even be very popular.
I must admit that, living near Edinburgh and previously in Fife, my trickiest journeys are those heading to Dartmoor and Exmoor for hiking, and know climbers up here who would head to the SW coast for coastal climbs given the chance. I'm sure there'd be more demand from SW dwellers coming up to Scotland also. I don't make those journeys very often, but if, like you say, there was a Birmingham Intl stop, that would give me connections to north Wales where my family live, or to the east midlands where I find a surprisingly large number of clients for work, but often end up turning down due to travel faffiness.
 

styles

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“Some” is doing an awful lot of work there!
Yes I'm working on the assumption there is political appetite and commitment to deliver something, which as we know, is sorely lacking across the entire network, so nothing in this post will happen :D
 

Shrop

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“Some” is doing an awful lot of work there!
Whereas Birmingham/Leeds/Manchester to Amsterdam (or to Brussels/Paris/Cologne/Frankfurt) could be achieved in around 8 hours with a great deal less work ...
 

Bald Rick

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Whereas Birmingham/Leeds/Manchester to Amsterdam (or to Brussels/Paris/Cologne/Frankfurt) could be achieved in around 8 hours with a great deal less work ...

Not really.

The biggest amount of work would be joining Schengen…
 

Shrop

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Not really.

The biggest amount of work would be joining Schengen…
Ah yes, I was thinking in the context of railways and logic, I'd forgotten about this huge political issue which over-rides both of those things!
 

D6130

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always thought Oban was a missing opportunity, but wouldn't profess to know the demand.
Oban would require a not inconsiderable amount of expenditure to provide the necessary facilities for cleaning, emptying the toilets and restocking the sleeper stock....unless of course it runs empty to and from either Fort William or Polmadie every day. I know the sleeper ran to and from Oban for a couple of weeks a few years ago - when it was still Mark 3 stock - as a result of engineering works on the Fort William line, but I can't see it ever happening on a permanent basis.
 

AlastairFraser

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Why would we have to join Schengen? We didn't need to to have Eurostar running from St Pancras, Ebbsfleet, Ashford.
Operational costs of passport control and border security are high per passenger, if you only have a few hundred passenger board a day at each stop. Hence why Ebbsfleet would realistically have to be partially rebuilt as a major terminal to carry many cross-Channel passengers if it was reopened.
 

Bald Rick

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Why would we have to join Schengen? We didn't need to to have Eurostar running from St Pancras, Ebbsfleet, Ashford.

Well, we don’t *have* to join Schengen, but alternatively we would need dedicated secure platforms plus security / border control at Edinburgh (and wherever else this train is going to stop)
 

styles

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Well, we don’t *have* to join Schengen, but alternatively we would need dedicated secure platforms plus security / border control at Edinburgh (and wherever else this train is going to stop)
Oh of course, that's a given!
 

HOOVER29

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How long did it take? Good dinner and sleep?

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That would be nice as I know flights are cheaper but wouldn't you like to wake up on vacation or your destination refreshed ready to go
If I remember correctly the service departed New Street around 11pm & was in Edinburgh between 6 & 7am
Used to sit in the bar & have a few drinks to pass the time

Was a great way to do sightseeing in Edinburgh

Upon boarding I remember thinking I’m not going to sleep on here.

Was asleep before we passed through the tunnel out of New Street

Was woken up at the pre-arranged time with tea & biscuits

Back then (in the 80’s) it was a fairly cheap way to travel unlike today
 

The exile

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Operational costs of passport control and border security are high per passenger, if you only have a few hundred passenger board a day at each stop. Hence why Ebbsfleet would realistically have to be partially rebuilt as a major terminal to carry many cross-Channel passengers if it was reopened.
On a sleeper (which is not so time critical), provided the authorities were in agreement and the timings permitted it, there could be a prolonged stop in the secure area at Coquelles at around 22.00 while all UK immigration checks were done on board- with undesirables removed there. Don’t think Schengen has tge same hang-ups that we do so checks could be done on the southbound in the same way as was traditionally done on international sleepers. Collect passports from sleeper passengers in advance andxreturn them in the morning. Wake everyone else up!
 

Sir Felix Pole

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Hard to believe now that such such a thing existed, but I travelled on the Manchester to Euston sleeper back in 1977. I needed to be in in London early for a job interview, as the daytime service didn't get going early enough back then. Needless to say I didn't sleep very well - there was quite a commotion at Stafford whilst the Liverpool portion was added - and no I didn't get the job!

I also travelled on the 'Night Riviera' from Paddington to Plymouth when it still had a separate Plymouth coach - this was detached and parked in Platform 8 so that passengers could have a lie in. Class 08 haulage I think, although I was asleep at the time!
 

Palmerston

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Has anyone ever seriously proposed sleeper services through the tunnel? Something like London to Berlin/Vienna/Copenhagen seems feasible.
 

465fan

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Has anyone ever seriously proposed sleeper services through the tunnel? Something like London to Berlin/Vienna/Copenhagen seems feasible.
I think the existence of Mk3 generator coaches for Nightstar would suggest that yes, there were serious proposals...

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Has anyone ever seriously proposed sleeper services through the tunnel? Something like London to Berlin/Vienna/Copenhagen seems feasible.
Directly stolen from Wikipedia...

When originally proposed in 1992, the service pattern was to be as follows:[4]

London services​

These trains would each have been formed of two eight-car sub-sets (one for each destination) that would be split into separate trains at Aachen, with the reverse happening for trains to London.

Beyond London services​

The Plymouth and Swansea trains would each have been formed of a single seven-car sub-set, and the Glasgow train of two seven-car sub-sets. The Plymouth and Swansea trains would be diesel hauled beyond London by a class 37/6 and Generator set, with the Glasgow train electric hauled. At London Kensington Olympia, the Glasgow train would be split and the two sub-sets attached to the respective Swansea and Plymouth trains to form one train to Paris and one to Brussels. They would be electric hauled from London onwards.

The trains would all be electric hauled by a class 92 locomotive from London to Dollands Moor Freight Yard where a second class 92 would be attached to the rear of the train. This was to meet the Channel Tunnel safety requirements that, in case of emergency, the train could be split in half and each half driven out independently.

Revised routes​

After the numerous delays, and due to changing passenger requirements, the final proposed routing called for trains on five routes to Glasgow, London, Manchester Piccadilly, Plymouth and Swansea in the UK to and from Amsterdam, Dortmund and Frankfurt.
 
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