Avanti 805/807 - experiences and opinions

[Bletchleyite]

Creating this thread so we don't clutter up the progress thread.

I finally got a ride on one of these on Friday after multiple attempts marred by cancellations.

Quite impressed to be honest. They are "just" 80x, but there have been a number of changes that have made them a little better than the usual.

• Lighting is a warmer white than standard, which is quite pleasant.
• Seats are as per the refurbished Pendolino in Standard but with a window side armrest which makes a massive difference in terms of the feeling of space in the window seat. Only downside of these seats is that they are slightly lower than the Fainsa Sophia so the window feels a bit high, particularly in the end vehicle, and that your drink can fall off as there's no ridge!
• Layout quite low density, plenty of luggage space in racks and overheads. I'd prefer more airline seats but some will love the tables (and they provide extra luggage space between seat backs compared to a more Lumo like layout).
• Ride was as per 80x - WCML fast line track quality is pretty good so it was smooth enough, similar in feel to a 350.
• Better displays than "basic" 80x, but one was flickering so there are clearly some faults.
• Reservations weren't working.
• Could do with some more colour - the pastel green on the vehicle ends is manky and the lack of stripe along the reservation displays makes it a bit boring.
• Didn't try First Class so can't comment on that.

But overall I'd take these over a Pendolino or a Voyager. Which is a good thing as 2 of the 3 services calling at MKC will be 80x once rollout is complete. All in all a decent job - nothing groundbreaking but likely to settle in nicely.

 

[Travelmonkey]

Indeed I am yet to try first class on these units but have had some standard trips, I do like no matter what way my wheelchair using friend is facing I can have a forward facing seat nearby. I did notice they are alot lower step than the pendalinos & voyagers so I am able to just about board unassisted for now. I've always quite liked the 80x variants of trains but you can clearly see that lessons have been learned from the GWR & LNER sets. Overall I am glad to see these trains and look forward to riding them more, although make sure LTV is staffed if I'm using my wheelchair on travels

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

805s are quite "hummy" on diesel, and while they are quick off the mark they don't have the big "oomph" power of the 221s.
Luckily nothing over 90mph is needed west of Crewe.
The audio PIS is over the top at every stop, and does not appear to be tailored to main stations.
It's repeated in Welsh down the coast (using, as far as I could tell, the TfW Welsh PIS voice).
Visual PIS is fine.
There have been many instances of units failing to couple at Chester and Crewe - 221s always seemed to join easily.
I'd agree they feel like 350s at 110mph on the WCML fast lines, but we'll have to wait for the new MU speed profile for a proper 125mph comparison with 390s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

805s are quite "hummy" on diesel, and while they are quick off the mark they don't have the big "oomph" power of the 221s.
Luckily nothing over 90mph is needed west of Crewe.

I think that's a good aspect of the design - no need to overpower the diesel bit if it isn't planned to run at 125 on diesel.

I've not noticed them being noisy, if anything the transformer whine is noisier than the engines. My Avanti ride was on electric, though.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I've done Standard and First and was quite impressed with both. On one of my two First journeys there was an issue with the oven which apparently had only gone wrong after the units were coupled up in Chester, but otherwise absolutely fine.

 

[Wymondham]

I took an 805 from Coventry to Euston on Friday - all of the external display boards (which are meant to show the carriage letter) were non functional, as was the seat reservation system. Also, only having one power socket per pair of airline style standard class seats is a bit of a downgrade from the post-refurbishment pendolinos which have one socket for each seat.

That said, I do agree that they are a great improvement on the voyagers and a shade better than other 80x stock.

 

[Kite159]

PIS announcements are overly loud and sound quite echoey.

Would be better without the fixed armrest by the window side to give the seats a bit of extra space, considering said armrest is too low. Not really tried them outside the West Midlands or on the WCML south of Milton Keynes where they normally are chasing the taillights of a 350.

 

[Bletchleyite]

PIS announcements are overly loud and sound quite echoey.

Didn't really notice that. I did notice that they've sampled the Pendolino "bing bong" but cut it very slightly short which grated slightly but most people wouldn't notice

Would be better without the fixed armrest by the window side to give the seats a bit of extra space, considering said armrest is too low.

I like it as it is - whether it's too low depends on the height of your body vs. the length of your upper arm which will differ between people. However I don't see why it shouldn't be possible for them to make those armrests liftable, there's nothing I could see in the way of doing so and it's probably just a quick job with a screwdriver to unlock them, then we can both be happy.

 

[Kite159]

Although I suspect it will probably cost them more money to fit a moveable armrest compared to a fixed one, similar to other modern trains where the armrest by the window is fixed downwards.

 

[Bald Rick]

Ride was as per 80x - WCML fast line track quality is pretty good so it was smooth enough, similar in feel to a 350.

but we'll have to wait for the new MU speed profile for a proper 125mph comparison with 390s.

Well you won‘t get much 125. Less than 20 miles of it Euston - Crewe and about half that Crewe - Euston.

But you will get plenty of speeds higher than the current non tilt profile, and be sure to hold on to your coffee heading northbound through Linslade tunnel and curves.

 

[sprinterguy]

Had my first journey on one (in standard class) a couple of Saturdays ago and I was most impressed: Comfortable seats (which seems odd, admittedly - I don't rate them on Pendolinos though I guess I am getting used to them), smooth and quiet ride, well lit without being overpoweringly bright (and I speak as one with a penchant for dark corners in dimly lit pubs), clean and well arranged toilets.

It helps that they're brand new, of course, and I was only on one for twenty minutes, but it reaffirms the positive attributes I associate with the Transpennine equivalents, which are the only other 80x variant I have experience of.

 

[m0ffy]

I found myself on one of these new units from Euston to Tamworth this morning. It felt less comfortable than an LNWR 350 and much worse than a 390 in terms of seating and ride quality, and I’m not convinced the A/C was working optimally. The shop isn’t as well presented as those on the 390s, either. Decent leg room, though.

Edit - a window was whistling for most of the journey, I’m hoping this isn’t a common fault.

 

[Peakrider]

Apart from having longer journey times, and shorter trains, the ride quality is poor and they’re definitely inferior to the Pendolinos.
Typical Avanti.

 

[hexagon789]

Apart from having longer journey times, and shorter trains, the ride quality is poor and they’re definitely inferior to the Pendolinos.
Typical Avanti.

Many consider them more comfortable than the 390s, certainly in Standard Class.

Plenty of posts on this forum and others attest to that alternative opinion.

 

[AndrewE]

Many consider them more comfortable than the 390s, certainly in Standard Class.

Plenty of posts on this forum and others attest to that alternative opinion.

For me the seats are definitely less comfortable. My back always hurts after a trip on one in standard class, just like the TfW 197s. Pendolinos however (especially in 1st) are great.

 

[hexagon789]

For me the seats are definitely less comfortable. My back always hurts after a trip on one in standard class, just like the TfW 197s. Pendolinos however (especially in 1st) are great.

They have the same seats as 390s though, so that makes no sense.

 

[Sorcerer]

I'll be finding out for myself soon whether the Evero holds up to the Pendolino, but by the looks of this week's diagrams on Real Time Trains the 13:07 is now being diagrammed as an 807 rather than a 390 like it has been in the past, so this has me wondering whether or not Avanti are being flexible every week with diagramming or if RTT are getting incorrect information. Is ten units enough to cover the second Liverpool and Birmingham semi-fast without substitution?

 

[800001]

They are running Liverpool - London, with just 2 coaches of 1st class (of 7) but one of those is Standard Plus (or whatever they call it).
Apart from having longer journey times, and shorter trains, the ride quality is poor and they’re definitely inferior to the Pendolinos.
Typical Avanti.

Shorter trains with just about the same amount of seats as a 9 car Pendolino as has been mentioned on these threads many many times.

Also it is not 2 coaches of first class/standard premium, as the first carriage carries the driver’s cab and kitchen, and the 2nd coach is a composite coach which is standard and 1st class/standard premium.

 

[AJDesiro]

Shorter trains with just about the same amount of seats as a 9 car Pendolino as has been mentioned on these threads many many times.

27 more seats in Standard, 50 less in the First/SP areas, but I've never seen First particularly busy on any 807 services. Indeed I'd imagine the majority of travellers (who can't afford First) would rather the extra 27 seats in Standard.

 

[Peakrider]

Many consider them more comfortable than the 390s, certainly in Standard Class.

Plenty of posts on this forum and others attest to that alternative opinion.

They are inferior in first and the journey time is slower from Liverpool. The staff hate them.

 

[Bald Rick]

The staff hate them.

Well that’s interesting. I have made a point of asking staff (drivers, TMs, onboard hosts) of their opinion and how they compare to the 390s. Opinons have varied beteween ‘prefer these’ to ‘no difference, it’s a train’.

But no one in the ‘hate them’ camp.

Sample size about 15 crews in the last 6 months.

Mostly recently discussed this week with a Liverpool crew.

 

[AndrewE]

Well that’s interesting. I have made a point of asking staff (drivers, TMs, onboard hosts) of their opinion and how they compare to the 390s. Opinons have varied beteween ‘prefer these’ to ‘no difference, it’s a train’.

But no one in the ‘hate them’ camp.

Sample size about 15 crews in the last 6 months.

Mostly recently discussed this week with a Liverpool crew.

I wonder whether they are wise enough to avoid admitting disliking the loss of their luxury Coach K mess room? I have come under pressure to vacate it before now!

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder whether they are wise enough to avoid admitting disliking the loss of their luxury Coach K mess room? I have come under pressure to vacate it before now!

No one has yet!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Many consider them more comfortable than the 390s, certainly in Standard Class.

Plenty of posts on this forum and others attest to that alternative opinion.

Pfff. I find it hard to understand why. I think the 390 offers a much more interesting, luxurious ambience.

 

[Energy]

Pfff. I find it hard to understand why. I think the 390 offers a much more interesting, luxurious ambience.

The 80Xs don't have the smaller tilt profile body, and have bigger windows.

I find the Pendolinos much more interesting, and the tilting is a nice experience, but I can understand why people prefer the 80X.

 

[Jimini]

Pfff. I find it hard to understand why. I think the 390 offers a much more interesting, luxurious ambience.

I'd respectfully disagree. The 390s are claustrophobic if anything with their poorly aligned, smaller windows. The 80x have much larger windows and a far more relaxing / open ambience.

 

[station_road]

They have the same seats as 390s though, so that makes no sense.

Not in First - it's all subjective, but for me the First class Pendolino seat is significantly more comfortable

 

[DaveyJones]

I wonder whether they are wise enough to avoid admitting disliking the loss of their luxury Coach K mess room? I have come under pressure to vacate it before now!

But they have seating the other end of the Kitchen don't they?

 

[Pendomonium]

Well that’s interesting. I have made a point of asking staff (drivers, TMs, onboard hosts) of their opinion and how they compare to the 390s. Opinons have varied beteween ‘prefer these’ to ‘no difference, it’s a train’.

But no one in the ‘hate them’ camp.

Sample size about 15 crews in the last 6 months.

Mostly recently discussed this week with a Liverpool crew.

The hate comes from the myriad intermittent & recurring faults that cause distraction, inconvenience & sources of conflict. Having said that, that probably applies to the 390s as well.

 

[Bald Rick]

The hate comes from the myriad intermittent & recurring faults that cause distraction, inconvenience & sources of conflict. Having said that, that probably applies to the 390s as well.

“Hate” is such an emotive word.