London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[yorkie]

Poor service on the 12:02 York to London.

No sign of any menus, and only offered between a couple of the most basic cold options (not even the Ploughmans box); when I asked if it was a Dish train, I was told it was "Deli but they've not loaded everything". Customer service skills were the most basic possible; they'd have no chance getting a job in an equivalent role on an airline for example.

Also, the hot drinks trolley just skipped past me; it's not uncommon to be skipped when sat opposite a full table for four in my experience, as the crew are busy sorting that table they seem to forget whoever is opposite.

I suspect they are a London-based crew; they do tend to be the worst, on average.

 

[Bungle73]

Can someone explain why the 16:02 York to King's Cross train is a Dish menu, where as the 18:02 is the Deli menu, a time when most people would be wanting some kind of meal, and the tickets are more expensive too. It makes no sense!

 

[Bishopstone]

Can someone explain why the 16:02 York to King's Cross train is a Dish menu, where as the 18:02 is the Deli menu, a time when most people would be wanting some kind of meal, and the tickets are more expensive too. It makes no sense!

The price of Advance tickets is driven by demand, and not the menu on offer. During the summer, I expect 18:02 is a more popular time for day-tripping tourists to return home from York, with 16:02 being rather early.

 

[Bungle73]

The price of Advance tickets is driven by demand, and not the menu on offer. During the summer, I expect 18:02 is a more popular time for day-tripping tourists to return home from York, with 16:02 being rather early.

I'm looking at December....

But it's been exactly the same for years.

Surely the better menu should be on the train with the most demand? That's what common sense should dictate, no?

 

[Bishopstone]

I'm looking at December....

But it's been exactly the same for years.

Surely the better menu should be on the train with the most demand? That's what common sense should dictate, no?

I don't know how LNER plan which FC menu goes on which train, but if they can get good FC occupancy with the Deli menu, there's no commercial imperative to offer bigger (and more expensive) meals.

 

[Bungle73]

I don't know how LNER plan which FC menu goes on which train, but if they can get good FC occupancy with the Deli menu, there's no commercial imperative to offer bigger (and more expensive) meals.

So there's no actually plan or logic to which menu is on which train? Trains are picked at random? I see.

 

[ainsworth74]

So there's no actually plan or logic to which menu is on which train? Trains are picked at random? I see.

There is obviously some logic being applied but it's not just "this train is dinner time therefore Dish/Dine will apply". There's clearly some revenue thought going into it (for instance this train is busy, has expensive fares and so is our high yielding passengers we want to keep sweet therefore high quality menu) as well as resourcing (where are our catering crews best used to get best value from their work).

That set of calculations can therefore mean that some services get a better menu you than you might expect and others a worse one.

 

[Scotrail314209]

With the Deli menu being lighter, it seems like a good option for the busier services or the quieter ones as it’s easier to offer. I think that’s why it’s gone to all the weekend trains.

 

[ainsworth74]

With the Deli menu being lighter, it seems like a good option for the busier services or the quieter ones as it’s easier to offer. I think that’s why it’s gone to all the weekend trains.

I think the only real difference is the amount of crew required. Dish takes slightly more manpower to deliver I reckon due to having a number of hot items unlike Deli which can be served by one host if needed (I've seen it done! It was quite slow but they managed it all solo).

The how busy the train is doesn't really come into it seeing as they'll service Dine on some of the busiest trains that LNER operate in first class. Equally Deli on the weekend is more about revenue I reckon than anything. They'll have crunched numbers are worked out that Dish wasn't getting them any more revenue (or wouldn't lose them any) if they withdrew it from weekend services and makes the staff requirements easier to manage as well.

 

[Butts]

If you want to try "Dine" Menu at a cheap price and live near Edinburgh it's perfectly possible to get a cheap ticket to Leuchars and enjoy the experience for under a tenner with a railcard - and not much more for an unrestricted 1st Class Single.

Have a day out in St Andrews a quick bus hop away from Leuchars !!

 

[A S Leib]

If you want to try "Dine" Menu at a cheap price and live near Edinburgh it's perfectly possible to get a cheap ticket to Leuchars and enjoy the experience for under a tenner with a railcard - and not much more for an unrestricted 1st Class Single.

Have a day out in St Andrews a quick bus hop away from Leuchars !!

Not that I'd imagine the price to Dundee to be massively more, especially if splitting at Leuchars, but would you be offered the full menu on such a comparatively short journey?

 

[Butts]

Not that I'd imagine the price to Dundee to be massively more, especially if splitting at Leuchars, but would you be offered the full menu on such a comparatively short journey?

Had it both ways on past journeys from Edinburgh to Leuchars.

 

[Willie Bee]

Replying to post number #8740 ... Earlier on in this thread, it was reported that the 'dine' menu is often changed to the 'deli' or 'dish' menu

 

[yorkie]

At 18:50 half the lounge at Kings Cross is shut, so everyone is crammed into a smaller space. There is just about enough space to avoid people having to stand but some people who are travelling together are split up.

No food items on display whatsoever.

Edit: however, the journey itself was good (apart from a threatening announcement by the Guard over ticketing); the first class hosts were a Leeds based crew, so - as you might expect - were much better than recent experiences with London based crew, with plenty of drinks runs.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Failed air conditioning again? This was the case when I was through the cross last week, wasn't riding in first but there were an awful lot of unhappy punters baking alive under the main concourse roof who would most definitely have rather been in the lounge

 

[yorkie]

Failed air conditioning again?

On Wednesday evening, yes aircon had failed in Coach L, but as I was on a Leeds service there were plenty of alternative seats, in coaches K & M.

The previous evening, I tried the Railway curry, which wasn't bad, I don't think I'd go for that again. On Wednesday evening, I went for the ploughman's board, which is the best item on the usual "rest of the day" menu.

This morning I went for the "full LNER", but with a few items removed and the eggs to be scrambled. The customisations perhaps meant mine arrived after everyone else's, but that makes sense and I didn't mind. They were generous with the portion sizes.

The best service from a crew perspective is almost always the Leeds based crews, though Newcastle crews can be good too. Unfortunately, I do end up with London crews sometimes, and some of them are very surly. The training is clearly very inconsistent.

(I don't normally make so many journeys in quick succession, however I booked one journey before the other became necessary, and also hotel prices in London were through the roof, due to Wimbledon. Also, I'm fortunate to not be paying the full fare; if I was, I'd have to go in Standard. In all cases, Standard was much busier than First, so I was grateful for the upgrade)

 

[Deerfold]

Had two contrasting experiences on subsequent days.

Yesterday heading from Leeds to London was marvellous, including squeezing 3 cold drinks runs in, with the first just minutes after leaving Leeds.

Today from London only 2 of the 4 brunch options were available - sadly as there's now only 1 vegan option that means when it's off there's nothing I can eat. Especially when there's no fruit and no crisps, either.

We're an hour an 20 minutes in and have had 1 hot drinks service and no cold drink service. so at Doncaster I've had nothing.

EDIT: asked about cold drinks to be told they don't do them with the breakfast/brunch service. Is this a new policy? I wasn't expecting alcohol, but I'm sure juice and water used to be offered.

 

[Bungle73]

With the Deli menu being lighter, it seems like a good option for the busier services or the quieter ones as it’s easier to offer. I think that’s why it’s gone to all the weekend trains.

Except what you get is so insubstantial it leaves me feeling hungry later on........

Had two contrasting experiences on subsequent days.

Yesterday heading from Leeds to London was marvellous, including squeezing 3 cold drinks runs in, with the first just minutes after leaving Leeds.

Today from London only 2 of the 4 brunch options were available - sadly as there's now only 1 vegan option that means when it's off there's nothing I can eat. Especially when there's no fruit and no crisps, either.

We're an hour an 20 minutes in and have had 1 hot drinks service and no cold drink service. so at Doncaster I've had nothing.

EDIT: asked about cold drinks to be told they don't do them with the breakfast/brunch service. Is this a new policy? I wasn't expecting alcohol, but I'm sure juice and water used to be offered.

I think you've been lied to. They definitely do serve cold drinks, and always have done.

 

[route101]

Had two contrasting experiences on subsequent days.

Yesterday heading from Leeds to London was marvellous, including squeezing 3 cold drinks runs in, with the first just minutes after leaving Leeds.

Today from London only 2 of the 4 brunch options were available - sadly as there's now only 1 vegan option that means when it's off there's nothing I can eat. Especially when there's no fruit and no crisps, either.

We're an hour an 20 minutes in and have had 1 hot drinks service and no cold drink service. so at Doncaster I've had nothing.

EDIT: asked about cold drinks to be told they don't do them with the breakfast/brunch service. Is this a new policy? I wasn't expecting alcohol, but I'm sure juice and water used to be offered.

Was orange juice offered? Surely at Breakfast time. I have been on a breakfast service before and they didn't have any soft drinks when I asked.

 

[yorkie]

Was orange juice offered? Surely at Breakfast time. I have been on a breakfast service before and they didn't have any soft drinks when I asked.

Should be available, but the service is very inconsistent and variable these days, especially if you get a London crew.

I'm not sure if there is a list of rosters, but I would strongly advise avoiding London crews if you want a chance of getting decent service; either they're being poorly trained or there is no quality control/mystery shopping in place, or both.

 

[route101]

Should be available, but the service is very inconsistent and variable these days, especially if you get a London crew.

I'm not sure if there is a list of rosters, but I would strongly advise avoiding London crews if you want a chance of getting decent service; either they're being poorly trained or there is no quality control/mystery shopping in place, or both.

I had surly service from an Edinburgh crew the last time I was in First class. Asked whats available to be told bluntly,' its in the menu'

 

[yorkie]

I had surly service from an Edinburgh crew the last time I was in First class. Asked whats available to be told bluntly,' its in the menu'

Very poor.

I'm not suggesting other crews are consistently good. However, there has always been increased inconsistency, and a generally lower standard - with some exceptions of course - from the London based crews, in my experience.

 

[Jan Mayen]

This is proper LNER 1st Class service:

Photo is from the Bluebell Railway Great Northern Directors Saloon.

 

[Butts]

Should be available, but the service is very inconsistent and variable these days, especially if you get a London crew.

I'm not sure if there is a list of rosters, but I would strongly advise avoiding London crews if you want a chance of getting decent service; either they're being poorly trained or there is no quality control/mystery shopping in place, or both.

Does anyone know if they actually deploy Mystery Shoppers ?

I wouldn't mind that gig !!

 

[Deerfold]

Was orange juice offered? Surely at Breakfast time. I have been on a breakfast service before and they didn't have any soft drinks when I asked.

No.

I was specifically told that they don't offer any drinks at breakfast/brunch any more when I asked. I'd have picked up a water in the lounge if I'd known there wouldn't be any on the train (and my other half suggested two places in Kings Cross to grab some food from with me saying I should be ok with what I'd have on the train). With a 10 minute connection at Leeds then a bus home I was starving by the time I got home.

Annoyingly if I'd thought I'd have asked for a glass as I had a drink with me, but I didn't want to swig from a litre glass bottle!

The display was shwoing the usual "book up to 5 minutes in advance" but a set change meant no reservations were showing.

I did get to spend most of the journey sat next to Chris Kamara, though.

 

[ainsworth74]

I was specifically told that they don't offer any drinks at breakfast/brunch any more when I asked.

I mean I'm not saying that the crew were lying to you (because what reason would they have for doing it?) but it certainly feels like they were lying to you for my money...

 

[voyagerdude220]

I did get to spend most of the journey sat next to Chris Kamara, though.

Upon being asked for his opinion on the lack of drinks being offered, Mr Kamara replied: "[It's] unbelievable Jeff!"

 

[Bungle73]

Someone needs to clear up this with LNER. It's completely unacceptable not to provide any sort of drink on a journey that could be lasting hours, especially when you're paying a hefty premium for the service.

 

[Deerfold]

Someone needs to clear up this with LNER. It's completely unacceptable not to provide any sort of drink on a journey that could be lasting hours, especially when you're paying a hefty premium for the service.

Their Twitter has told me there should be cold drinks served and recommended I complain to customer services.

 

[route101]

There must be some bottles of Harrogate Spa water on the train. Perhaps soft drinks aren't loaded on morning services.