Reading to Ascot contactless payment

[Bread & cheese]

Are you sure? I have seen them at Reading before at the SWR platforms 4-6.

There is indeed a poster between platforms 4 and 5. It's been there some time. It replaced a previous version when the contactless area was extended to Virginia Water.

Image shows poster at Reading which states that contactless payment is not available on routes via Wokingham, or routes west of Reading.

 

[furlong]

Was it readily visible during Ascot when they may have had queuing measures in place?

 

[father_jack]

Was it readily visible during Ascot when they may have had queuing measures in place?

That is a permanent poster site on platform 5 and 6 where the buffers are for that particular poster and yes it is currently visible. The poster sites beside it on both sides are allocated to SWR so if they wanted to emphasise they could.

 

[MaidaVale]

It replaced a previous version when the contactless area was extended to Virginia Water.

They've edited the graphic and most of the text to include the Virginia Water extension, however it still says Reading to Wokingham and Feltham/Gatwick Airport from the previous iteration.

 

[londonbridge]

For some people, even if there is a massive poster saying "Contactless is Not Valid between X&Y" they will walk past it without giving it any glance, as they would for adverts.

Indeed, some people just take no notice of signs and posters. In my convenience store the freezer went down and we lost all the stock, including all the bakery gear (the perils of a set-up where everything is either bake-off, or thaw and serve, but that’s for another thread). Anyway, before opening the following morning we put up multiple signs apologising that we were unable to provide any bakery products, yet within five minutes of opening we had customers staring blankly at the empty display and asking were there any croissants coming…..

 

[tatitiliti]

No error was made by the TOC here. The OP made the mistake of believing that contactless was valid. SWR could definitely have done more to prevent the OP from travelling having made that error, but they were under no legal obligation to do so and it wouldn't affect their ability to make a civil claim for the value of an unpaid Penalty Fare.

But I was under the impression that what SWR charged on top of the penalty fare was an incorrect amount, meaning that ticket wouldn’t have been valid on that service anyway?

 

[Watershed]

But I was under the impression that what SWR charged on top of the penalty fare was an incorrect amount, meaning that ticket wouldn’t have been valid on that service anyway?

Ah, I see what you mean - I thought you were referring to the use of contactless. I suppose it is something you could try to raise but it doesn't seem like a particularly strong defence to me.

 

[fandroid]

Was it readily visible during Ascot when they may have had queuing measures in place?

If you had to queue to enter one of those platforms, you'd have plenty of time to read every notice! The ticket gates themselves are further back and to one side.

 

[tatitiliti]

Ah, I see what you mean - I thought you were referring to the use of contactless. I suppose it is something you could try to raise but it doesn't seem like a particularly strong defence to me.

I see your point - the argument of ‘you charged me less than you should have therefore the notice is invalid’ doesn’t sound great.

However, it is important that staff get this right (even if they were trying to lower the cost for OP in good faith) - penalty fares can often be overturned on the slightest technicality so I’d still try it the three times if I were OP!

 

[etr221]

The heart of the issue is that people's expectation of where Contactless PAYG can be used is far higher than it actually is - and this is in part due to poor messaging from the railway and politicians.

So the primary message that has to be communicated at Reading regarding Contactless PAYG is that it is NOT VALID (although you might think it is), except for GWR and Elizabeth Line trains towards London Paddington. And that needs to be got through to people who 'know' (or rather think they do) that it is. The illustrated poster is far too generic and long winded to do this. What that poster (on platforms 4/5/6) should be saying is "Contactless PAYG NOT VALID on trains from these platforms" - anything more is unwarranted detail.

 

[fandroid]

The specific problem at Reading is that any notices need to at the ticket gates and facing incoming passengers. Otherwise they've already committed themselves to contactless when they see the notices. The eastern bank of gates (nearest to platforms 4-6) are by no means exclusively used by passengers wanting SWR or GWR Downs Line trains. That means they cannot be set up to reject contactless bank cards.

However, we know from Stansted Express experience that the railway can put up multiple huge signs saying "Don't Do It!" and they still get people ignoring them.

 

[enyoueffsea]

There is a poster on the platform.

Ascot themselves give detailed explanation that it’s not valid: https://www.ascot.com/plan-visit/travel-to-ascot

The above travel advice is sent out by email from Ascot to all those who have booked tickets.

There were announcements on the train themselves.

A Google search of “can I use contactless to Ascot?” brings up countless travel websites which all say no.

————

Why should the TOC be responsible for someone who has decided to travel to an event without undertaking even the slightest bit of research beforehand, when it’s entirely the traveller’s responsibility to ensure they hold a correct ticket?

Other than the CEO of SWR approaching each traveller to personally announce it themselves, I am not sure what else the OP expects here.

 

[WesternLancer]

Other than the CEO of SWR approaching each traveller to personally announce it themselves, I am not sure what else the OP expects here.

It looks like the OP hasn't revisited the thread for some days.... so I suspect they have accepted the situation

The thread has probably run its course

 

[island]

I would just point out that the presence or absence of signs about the contactless zone is of no relevance to the validity of the Penalty Fare.

 

[MikeWh]

Inspired by the issues raised in this thread, I have just released the first page of a new section on my website: https://oysterfares.com/south-east-rail-pay-as-you-go-with-contactless/. It includes a map of the area proposed to be covered by PAYG with different colours indicating what's currently valid, what's due this year and what's still up in the air.

 

[boiledbeans2]

There is indeed a poster between platforms 4 and 5. It's been there some time. It replaced a previous version when the contactless area was extended to Virginia Water.
View attachment 182521
Image shows poster at Reading which states that contactless payment is not available on routes via Wokingham, or routes west of Reading.

That poster isn't immediately obvious at all. I had to think carefully what is meant by - "Contactless is not available [...]: Reading to Wokingham and Feltham/Gatwick"

To someone who's not familiar with the stations on the line, what on earth does that mean?

Between 'Reading to Wokingham' and 'Feltham/Gatwick'?
'Reading to Wokingham' as well as Feltham to Gatwick?

There is "to", "and", and "/".

Why not just write 'Reading to Feltham*/Gatwick'? *should be Virginia Water as mentioned above.

As an example, the LU Picc line goes from 'Cockfosters to Uxbridge/Heathrow'. I don't think anyone would say the line goes from 'Cockfosters to Acton Town and Uxbridge/Heathrow'?

As other people have mentioned above, I think the best method is to state where contactless IS valid at Reading, i.e. only Reading to Paddington. All other routes are invalid.

Another confusing part of the poster: the last sentence in the poster implies contactless is valid between Gatwick and Redhill on GWR.

 

[fandroid]

That poster is all very well, but anyone reading (and understanding!) it could already be in an awkward situation. They've tapped in to get through the ticket gates and so will be subject to a charge for not tapping out. Unless, of course, contactless allows a rapid retreat through the gates to set the charge to zero.

 

[Watershed]

That poster is all very well, but anyone reading (and understanding!) it could already be in an awkward situation. They've tapped in to get through the ticket gates and so will be subject to a charge for not tapping out. Unless, of course, contactless allows a rapid retreat through the gates to set the charge to zero.

If you're using contactless at a gated station, and touch out within 2 mins of touching in, you'll usually not be charged anything.

 

[boiledbeans2]

If you're using contactless at a gated station, and touch out within 2 mins of touching in, you'll usually not be charged anything.

Is this specific to contactless only? Doesn't exiting within 2 mins result in a max fare?
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/refunds-and-replacements/touching-in-and-out (scroll to "Same station exits" near bottom of page)

 

[island]

It is specific to contactless, yes. On Oyster it will result in a maximum fare, which is credited back upon starting a valid (railway?) journey within 45 minutes.

 

[fandroid]

If you're using contactless at a gated station, and touch out within 2 mins of touching in, you'll usually not be charged anything.

Whilst true, how many actual users of contactless are aware of that? Remember the OP is a contactless user and wasn't aware that the contactless zone doesn't include Ascot. Just stopping to buy a coffee before walking to the platform would have killed that option anyway.

 

[Watershed]

Whilst true, how many actual users of contactless are aware of that? Remember the OP is a contactless user and wasn't aware that the contactless zone doesn't include Ascot. Just stopping to buy a coffee before walking to the platform would have killed that option anyway.

Yep, absolutely a fair point - I've known people be caught out by this when trying to see me off on the platform - despite me warning them 2 mins wouldn't be enough time! But it does mean that a sign installed within the barriers, saying "WARNING: contactless is not valid on any trains from this platform. Please touch out and buy a ticket from the machine" would suffice in many cases.

 

[duffield]

Yep, absolutely a fair point - I've known people be caught out by this when trying to see me off on the platform - despite me warning them 2 mins wouldn't be enough time! But it does mean that a sign installed within the barriers, saying "WARNING: contactless is not valid on any trains from this platform. Please touch out and buy a ticket from the machine" would suffice in many cases.

Is there any good reason it's not (say) 5 or 10 minutes? I can't immediately see how that could be abused.

 

[fandroid]

Is there any good reason it's not (say) 5 or 10 minutes? I can't immediately see how that could be abused.

SWR's own Tap2Go Smartcard allows 15 minutes between tapping in and out at the same station, without charge. Quite handy for seeing someone off at the platform, as long as there are no last minutes delays!

 

[davews]

This is the poster by platforms 4/5/6 at Reading in context:



Hardly conspicuous is it? And it says 'GWR' which is not much help if you are heading to a SWR train.

I noticed this poster is also displayed at the Rail Air link entrance on the wall and presumably at the other entrances. But it hardly catches your attention. I only noticed this one because I deliberately stopped to see what it looks like, a casual traveller would just have passed by it.

 

[Falcon1200]

Hardly conspicuous is it? And it says 'GWR' which is not much help if you are heading to a SWR train.

Isn't that poster board after the barriers? And is it not possible to check ticketing options in one of several ways;

Online;
Over the phone;
At the booking office;
At the barrier?

 

[davews]

Isn't that poster board after the barriers? And is it not possible to check ticketing options in one of several ways;

Online;
Over the phone;
At the booking office;
At the barrier?

Well that is what this thread is about. Yes, they could do all that but in reality don't, they just find the barrier accepts contactless and swipe their card without another thought. Note also the poster I showed is between platforms 5 and 6. If you are catching a train from platform 4 you probably wouldn't even see it.

 

[fandroid]

I've just had a wander around Reading station outside the ticket gates. I didn't see a single notice concerning contactless either in the Brunel Arcade end where the ticket office is, or by the newer rank of gates on the other side of the Three Guineas pub. I think that might be a "compelling reason" if appealing a Penalty Fare notice.

 

[AlterEgo]

I've just had a wander around Reading station outside the ticket gates. I didn't see a single notice concerning contactless either in the Brunel Arcade end where the ticket office is, or by the newer rank of gates on the other side of the Three Guineas pub. I think that might be a "compelling reason" if appealing a Penalty Fare notice.

It would be an appeal under signage requirements (section 8 display of notices), not a compelling reason - this is anything that doesn’t fit the statutory and prescriptive grounds outlined in the Regulations.

 

[davews]

I've just had a wander around Reading station outside the ticket gates. I didn't see a single notice concerning contactless either in the Brunel Arcade end where the ticket office is, or by the newer rank of gates on the other side of the Three Guineas pub. I think that might be a "compelling reason" if appealing a Penalty Fare notice.

As I reported earlier there is though one at the Rail Air Link entrance, on the wall to the left at the top of the stairs. A long way from any ticket offices, machines or gateways.