ScotRail Suburban Fleet (EMU and BEMU) Market Engagement

[diamond chap]

ScotRail Trains Limited (SRT) Market Engagement Notice
SRT is launching a market engagement exercise in relation to its proposed procurement for the replacement of some of its aging Diesel and Electric Multiple Units with a new fleet of Electric Multiple Units (EMUs) and Battery Electric Multiple Units (BEMUs). The proposed procurement is planned for 2025-2027, with initial deliveries expected by late 2031, subject to approval from Transport Scotland and the Scottish Government.
It is anticipated that under a Manufacturing and Supply Agreement (MSA) the core order will be for approximately 69 units, potentially comprising around 41 EMUs and 28 BEMUs.

View Notice - Public Contracts Scotland

www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk

 

[Rick1984]

Level boarding included in ScotRail’s fleet replacement plans​

UK: Scottish government-owned operator ScotRail Trains has begun market engagement for its planned procurement of electric and battery-electric multiple-units.
The core manufacturing & supply agreement is expected cover approximately 69 units to replace older electric and diesel multiple-units which are reaching the end of their service lives. This would comprising around 41 EMUs and 28 BEMUs. There may be options to order more. It is anticipated that the BEMUs would be introduced alongside partial electrification of key routes by Network Rail.

Aspirations for the new fleet include enhanced accessibility, increased provision for bicycles and wheelchairs, family-friendly interior layouts, comfortable seating and good ride quality. The new trains are anticipated to include a low-floor design to enable level boarding where platforms meet PRM-NTSN requirements.
SRT is also seeking to engage the market regarding a technical support & spares supply agreement.
Ove Arup & Partners is managing the market engagement process on behalf of SRT. Tenders are expected to be called by the end of September, with the procurement process running to 2027. Deliveries expected to begin in late 2030, subject to approval from Transport Scotland and the Scottish government.

Level boarding included in ScotRail’s fleet replacement plans

UK: ScotRail has begun market engagement for its planned procurement of electric and battery-electric multiple-units.

www.railwaygazette.com

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Wow so the 318s will be 44 by the time they go? I imagine the 334s will definitely be replaced at this time also then.

 

[RailWonderer]

I imagine that the BEMUs will see off 170s, HSTs (and Meridians by then probably) on Glasgow/Edinburgh - Dundee routes and maybe even Aberdeen to release 170s for the WHL, FNL and Kyle line to see off Sprinters.

There is no mention as to when a bidding invitation will start.

In any case, replacements are nearly a decade away, in which time Scotrail might want to look at cascades if 158s and 170s are released elsewhere, seeing as they've picked up the Meridians already (which only has to be officially confirmed).

 

[ABB125]

The question I have is why do ScotRail need Arup to manage the market engagement on their behalf? Surely it's not that difficult to call Siemens/Alston/whoever and ask "what can you offer us?"?

 

[InOban]

Slightly OT but I have always understood that the 170s were incompatible with the WHL, perhaps their bogies couldn't manage the tighter curves with check rails.

 

[scotraildriver]

Slightly OT but I have always understood that the 170s were incompatible with the WHL, perhaps their bogies couldn't manage the tighter curves with check rails.

Yes, the bogie wheelbase is too long for the WHL. The original batch of 170s were built with RETB wiring pre installed in anticipation of use on the WHL until the wheel issue became apparent.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The numbers quoted above certainly do not include replacement of the rather large class 334 fleet, which in any case, could probably if maintained and refurbished go on until 2040. Possibly if an option is taken up for more of the electric model these could be changed. I would also have said that 28 battery electric will probably only take care of a very small proportion of the dmu fleet requirement. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure this is a much scaled-down version of the original fleet replacement plan outlined a couple of years back. And as to the question about why they need someone else to manage the engagement process, did they not engage themselves a couple of years back and come up looking pretty empty? Ferry scandal has somewhat dented faith in the Scottish government being able to manage any major project and made manufacturers of big ticket items such as trains run, scared. Certainly as somebody who used on a self-employed freelance basis to be a Scottish government supplier is now very wary of dealing with them

 

[hexagon789]

Slightly OT but I have always understood that the 170s were incompatible with the WHL, perhaps their bogies couldn't manage the tighter curves with check rails.

Yes, the bogie wheelbase is too long for the WHL. The original batch of 170s were built with RETB wiring pre installed in anticipation of use on the WHL until the wheel issue became apparent.

That can't be right surely, as 170s have the same series 3 bogie design as 156s with the same 2.6m wheelbase?

 

[D6975]

That can't be right surely, as 170s have the same series 3 bogie design as 156s with the same 2.6m wheelbase?

I think it's the distance between the bogies that's too long.
ps just loooked it up, a 170 is approximately 1m longer than a 156.

 

[och aye]

It'll be interesting to see if the Scot Gov/Transport Scotland will stick with Siemens and Hitachi or go with another manufacture.

I'm assuming (given the numbers in the procurement request) that some BREL units will remain in the ScotRail fleet into the late 2030s and possibly even into the early 2040s?

 

[gc4946]

Probably seeing off 318s, 320s and some 156s

 

[DanNCL]

The procurement request doesn't specify how long these new units would be so entirely possible a large number of them could be 6 car and therefore replace two older EMUs.

 

[D365]

The question I have is why do ScotRail need Arup to manage the market engagement on their behalf? Surely it's not that difficult to call Siemens/Alston/whoever and ask "what can you offer us?"?

Train operators will usually bring in external consultants to prepare / manage the technical and commercial requirements.

Probably seeing off 318s, 320s and some 156s

The intention is that all ex-British Rail fleets, along with Class 222 and eventually Classes 170, 334.

 

[Davester50]

Whatever replaces the local stoppers from Dundee, I hope they're nicer than the austerity 385s.

 

[Fife coaster]

It’s the ferry procurement all over again Northern are looking to replace all BREL units. Scotrail / transport Scotland need to get a grip. The fleet is ageing and needs replaced if they want level boarding then its needs to be a fleet of flirts bi mode with diesel engines as BEMU’s won’t cut it on far north and west highland line. I know we need to cut Carbon emissions but this needs to be done sensibly in a proportionate way.

 

[D365]

The fleet is ageing and needs replaced if they want level boarding then its needs to be a fleet of flirts...

Low floors is not an exclusive feature of FLIRTs. All of the manufacturers have realised that, going forward, all multiple units will have this requirement.

 

[Alfie1014]

Low floors is not an exclusive feature of FLIRTs. All of the manufacturers have realised that, going forward, all multiple units will have this requirement.

Indeed all manufacturers now have UK level boarding trains on the drawing board and Alstom are currently delivering UK close (other than track gauge) DART+ BEMUs to Dublin.

 

[fgwrich]

Low floors is not an exclusive feature of FLIRTs. All of the manufacturers have realised that, going forward, all multiple units will have this requirement.

Very much so, and I think operators are starting to wise up to the Stadler effect after Merseyrail and Tyne and Wear.

 

[Carntyne]

It’s the ferry procurement all over again Northern are looking to replace all BREL units. Scotrail / transport Scotland need to get a grip. The fleet is ageing and needs replaced if they want level boarding then its needs to be a fleet of flirts bi mode with diesel engines as BEMU’s won’t cut it on far north and west highland line. I know we need to cut Carbon emissions but this needs to be done sensibly in a proportionate way.

These units are the suburban fleet replacements, nothing to do with WHL or Far North Line.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The procurement request doesn't specify how long these new units would be so entirely possible a large number of them could be 6 car and therefore replace two older EMUs.

This has always been my thought. Plenty of reasons for a walk though 6 car unit with partial longitudinal seating on the Strathclyde network, much like the 345’s.

There’s also the potential for 380’s and 385’s to be redeployed elsewhere as well. What’s the long term plan for Maryhill? Until the exact spec and plan is known, it’s a bit grey.

41 6 cars would allow you to replace 82 3 car units. The total of the 318’s, 320’s and 334’s combined is 95, less the 334’s it’s still 55 so it doesn’t really add up which ever way you look at it from a 3 car perspective. Obviously if you half the 95 to factor in two 3 cars as one 6 car, it’s still 48. Minus the 334’s this would be just 28, which is far too low.

 

[gc4946]

The battery electrics could be deployed on:
Glasgow Central-Kilmarnock,
Kilmarnock-Ayr (and possibly Girvan depending on battery range),
Maryhill-Glasgow Queen Street;
Services in Fife especially to Leven.
Interworking with other electric services and reshuffling of DMUs also means several 156s could be withdrawn

 

[EMU303]

There’s also the potential for 380’s and 385’s to be redeployed elsewhere as well. What’s the long term plan for Maryhill? Until the exact spec and plan is known, it’s a bit grey.

Presumably BEMUs using electric power through the Queen St tunnel and same at Anniesland station where it terminates.

It’s posted on another thread that there are clearance issues with canal bridges along the line too.

 

[clc]

The procurement request doesn't specify how long these new units would be so entirely possible a large number of them could be 6 car and therefore replace two older EMUs.

When the procurement was originally announced a few years back there was talk of having fixed formation 5-car units with the same capacity as the current 6-car units. These would be ideal for the Argyle Line.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

When the procurement was originally announced a few years back there was talk of having fixed formation 5-car units with the same capacity as the current 6-car units. These would be ideal for the Argyle Line.

That would suggest they were expecting each vehicle’s length to be longer.

 

[Snow1964]

When the procurement was originally announced a few years back there was talk of having fixed formation 5-car units with the same capacity as the current 6-car units. These would be ideal for the Argyle Line.

It is more logical for the quantities to be 6car train equivalents, than like for like 3car units.

Age wise the 318, 320, ex321, 156, 158 all date from 1985-91, then there is a decade age gap to get to 334 and 170. If they take on 222s they would also be similar age, reaching 40 years old at start of 2040s

I think Scotrail have the oldest 158s, and the idea that these will linger on until next fleet batch change nearer 2040 seems very unlikely. If they wanted more non-standard fleet for next 25 years might as well just lease the spare 350s.

Assuming the 334 and 385 (and 170s) are staying, have to consider best deployment, and where the new trains will work, doesn't have to be same routes because they can be cascaded around.

The relatively small number of BEMUs seems low, not sure how many routes are being considered, although might not have range to reach these out and back : Perth, Dundee, Stranraer, Alloa, Leven, Tweedbank etc, but surely some could be reached. Makes me wonder if an outer suburban / secondary route configuration is better for new fleet with some of the other EMUs like 334s moved to the high density shorter routes.

 

[tfw756rider]

I think Scotrail have the oldest 158s

Yes I think they're all 1989-build and 1587xx-numbered. I was actually thinking that only the other day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jul 2025 ==

Age wise the 318, 320, ex321, 156, 158 all date from 1985-91, then there is a decade age gap to get to 340 and 170.

Assuming the 340 and 385 (and 170s) are staying, have to consider best deployment, and where the new trains will work, doesn't have to be same routes because they can be cascaded around.

Makes me wonder if an outer suburban / secondary route configuration is better for new fleet with some of the other EMUs like 340s moved to the high density shorter routes.

340 = 334, just to be clear?

 

[Falcon1200]

Presumably BEMUs using electric power through the Queen St tunnel and same at Anniesland station where it terminates.

Don't think the bay platform at Anniesland is wired however?

 

[Class15]

Don't think the bay platform at Anniesland is wired however?

That can be easily done I would imagine.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

That can be easily done I would imagine.

I would think so too. From the Wikipedia image, a handful of structures expanded (maybe 3 or 4). Doesn’t look as if any new ones would be necessary except at the buffer.