Boundary Zone Tickets and Travelcard

[NewburyAJB]

Dear Forum: is the following ticket combination valid? Newbury (NBY) to Boundary Zone 6 return and then a one day travel card Zone1-6. GWR customer service says it is not. NBY Station staff refuse to sell me the NBY to boundary ticket on the same basis, yet Paddington GWR ticket office say the fare is valid. When I use a network card with this fare combination on a weekend it is cheaper than an off peak cheap day return travel card.

 

[jfollows]

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination to be valid.

Your ticket combination is valid.
It’s pretty much the purpose behind Boundary Zone 6 tickets, why else would they exist?

 

[Watershed]

It's absolutely valid. What ostensible justification did they give for why it wouldn't be? Unfortunately most rail staff, even customer facing ones, receive limited training on the rules for ticket validity. The problem is that some then make rules up if they don't know the answer to a particular query.

As @jfollows says, the entire point of Boundary Zone fares is to allow you to extend the validity of your Travelcard to somewhere beyond the Zones. They would be pointless if they restricted you to stopping trains; such a restriction has not existed for a long time (if ever) to my knowledge.

 

[crablab]

NBY Station staff refuse to sell me the NBY to boundary ticket on the same basis,

Oh what basis? Why do they believe it to be invalid?

As @jfollows says this is completely valid and the inten of the Boundary Zone fares (subject to any restrictions on the tickets, of course).

If this is a regular occurrence it's worth making a complaint to GWR, and if you've suffered financially (ie. having to buy a ticket which duplicates validity) you should seek redress of any overpayment. Do not expect that to be easy, however!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Does the combination work out any cheaper than a Travelcard from Newbury?

 

[NewburyAJB]

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

Your ticket combination is valid.
It’s pretty much the purpose behind Boundary Zone 6 tickets, why else would they exist?

Thanks! That is my understanding too but staff at NBY and GWR customer service were adamant that it was not saying they are obliged by regulation to sell me the cheapest ticket that is valid for my journey and that my requested ticket type and combination is invalid and I would be liable to a penalty…

 

[jfollows]

Thanks! That is my understanding too but staff at NBY and GWR customer service were adamant that it was not saying they are obliged by regulation to sell me the cheapest ticket that is valid for my journey and that my requested ticket type and combination is invalid and I would be liable to a penalty…

They’re obliged to sell you the tickets you explicitly ask for, not the ones that they feel like selling.

 

[NewburyAJB]

Does the combination work out any cheaper than a Travelcard from Newbury?

At certain times when network railcard can be applied.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jul 2025 ==

It's absolutely valid. What ostensible justification did they give for why it wouldn't be? Unfortunately most rail staff, even customer facing ones, receive limited training on the rules for ticket validity. The problem is that some then make rules up if they don't know the answer to a particular query.

As @jfollows says, the entire point of Boundary Zone fares is to allow you to extend the validity of your Travelcard to somewhere beyond the Zones. They would be pointless if they restricted you to stopping trains; such a restriction has not existed for a long time (if ever) to my knowledge.

I was told in person that I cannot purchase and they won’t sell me a Newbury to boundary zone ticket, that combining this ticket with a travel card zones 1-6 is against the fare rules and that they were not obliged to explain the fare rules to me. It was an unpleasant and rather strange interaction. I then asked customer service online who gave me a series of unintelligible answers the outcome of which appears to be that condition 14.1 and 14.4 trumps condition 14.3 and my proposed ticket combination is not valid. I take comfort from the clarity in the answers given here and at Paddington.

 

[crablab]

As I say, I recommend you make a complaint to GWR and provide any examples where you've had to purchase duplicate validity or a more expensive ticket.

To resolve the current situation, you might ask they provide guidance to the station staff and what you should do if the staff continue to refuse sale of a ticket you're entitled to.

For historic tickets, the starting point would be requesting a refund for any extra fare you've paid. If they remain unreceptive to that argument you may ultimately have to consider the Small Claims court, but it depends how far you want to take it & how much loss you've incurred.

 

[NewburyAJB]

As I say, I recommend you make a complaint to GWR and provide any examples where you've had to purchase duplicate validity or a more expensive ticket.

To resolve the current situation, you might ask they provide guidance to the station staff and what you should do if the staff continue to refuse sale of a ticket you're entitled to.

For historic tickets, the starting point would be requesting a refund for any extra fare you've paid. If they remain unreceptive to that argument you may ultimately have to consider the Small Claims court, but it depends how far you want to take it & how much loss you've incurred.

Thanks. I think asking them to provide guidance is the right approach. I have only tried to purchase this fare once so the out of pocket is not worth the effort.

 

[Haywain]

Does the ticket machine at Newbury sell the Boundary Zone ticket?

 

[Watershed]

Does the ticket machine at Newbury sell the Boundary Zone ticket?

It would certainly allow you to collect a Boundary Zone ticket bought online. For @NewburyAJB 's benefit, Avanti (amongst others) allow you to buy Boundary Zone tickets online by searching for "Boundary Zone 6" as an origin/destination.

 

[jfollows]

It would certainly allow you to collect a Boundary Zone ticket bought online. For @NewburyAJB 's benefit, Avanti (amongst others) allow you to buy Boundary Zone tickets online by searching for "Boundary Zone 6" as an origin/destination.

This is absolutely what I’d do, and it’s sad because I prefer to buy my tickets from a human (and have no problems doing so at Wilmslow) but if the human refuses to sell a valid ticket then the requirement to use a machine to circumvent them will also lead to the loss of their job in due course.

 

[redreni]

It's concerning and disappointing to learn that GWR staff are taking the view that they can invent conditions under 14.1 and thus make it so that 14.3 doesn't apply.

An inboundary Travelcard and a boundary zone ticket go together like a horse and carriage - they not only don't, but couldn't possibly, have conditions attached to them precluding their use in conjunction with the other.

Are they perhaps upset because it is possible to buy an undiscounted off-peak Newbury to BZ6 day return and a Network Railcard-discounted inboundary 1-6 day Travelcard, depart before 10am (on trains timed to arrive at Paddington after 09:52), and use it in conjunction with a Network Railcard-discounted inboundary Travelcard, as long as the train doesn't pass the boundary of zone 6 before 10am? I can see that they might not like that and might prefer it if people overpaid for an undiscounted ouboundary day Travelcard if they wanted to depart before 10am.

You are perfectly within your rights, however, if you want to begin your journey before 10am, only to forgo your Network Railcard discount in relation to the ticket(s) you are using before 10am, as long as you are complying with all the restrictions on the tickets. Whether GWR staff like it is immaterial to the question of validity.

It can, in my experience, be extremely difficult to buy a Network Railcard-discounted ticket at a ticket office before 10am even where it is obvious that you have no intention and, in fact, no possible way of travelling on that ticket before 10am. For example, when holding a 7-day inboundary Travelcard season ticket, I have tried at ticket offices in South East London to buy a boundary zone 6 to Maidenhead at about 09:20 and been refused. This was in the days before you could buy boundary zone tickets from ticket machines, and before the Elizabeth Line made it possible to reach Paddington in under an hour, and I didn't at that time know how to get them online. So the alternative to buying the ticket at my departure station was to queue up at London Bridge or Paddington, which could take a long time. There was absolutely no reasoning with them, though. Can't sell an off-peak before 09:30, can't sell a Network Railcard-discounted ticket before 10am, and that was that.

Maybe that's part of the problem? They know the TVMs are programmed not to sell these tickets before certain times, and they don't want to be in trouble for letting people get around that restriction by going to them? It sounds like the rule has been made up at a fairly high level within GWR, though. I would strongly encourage you to make a complaint - you are right and they are wrong.

 

[talldave]

It would be entertaining for OP to video a repeat encounter asking for the same tickets and then stick the video on Twitter or YouTube. Such stupidity really needs highlighting far and wide.

Written as a fan of Boundary Zone tickets!!

 

[mikeb42]

Similarly, but not quite identically, in more recent times I've repeatedly had ticket office and on-train staff do something similar.

The distinction being that, with one exception, they've not tried to tell me that the ticket combination (somewhere to West Drayton, WDT, plus a Z1-6 day travelcard) is invalid full stop. They have though asserted that I can only use it on a train which stops at WDT. So they're repudiating 14.3 of the NRCoT.

I've had a ticket clerk at one major station within the Network Railcard area try to refuse to sell me the tickets on this basis, another at the same place give me a lengthy lecture about how I'll get prosecuted if an RPI catches me, for which I politely thanked them. In every case I refer them to NRCoT 14.3 and quote the wording at them if given the chance but it's an exercise in futility.

The low point was having a GWR RPI go down this path with me on a train recently. According to them, 14.3 only applies to season tickets. Quoting what it actually says verbatim from a copy on my phone and inviting them to refer to the copy "they must surely have access to" got them to "let me off this time" but not concede what is written down in black and white.

On a different occasion when I had to get an error in a ticket issued by a clerk at Didcot corrected at Paddington ticket office they were quite happy with the split but would only issue me with a ticket to BZ6 which is slightly more expensive than one explicitly to WDT which as far as I'm aware is 100% valid. I let that one pass as life is short and arguing with ticket clerks is long.

The answer to all this is to do what many prolific posters here advise: have nothing to do with ticket offices. They appear to be on an employment suicide mission.

Get a ticket to BZ6 or WDT on your phone or from a machine, likewise a travelcard on paper or smart card.

If an RPI does that to me again I'll be making a formal complaint but have little expectation of getting anything but platitudes in response with no meaningful action taken.

Ultimately, it's a case of "good luck with that" if they try to prosecute you or whatever so it's just an annoyance.

 

[redreni]

You would think after GTR had to settle that boundary fares class action, GWR would be going out of its way to protect itself from similar by ensuring boundary splits are proactively offered where they are the appropriate ticket.

At stations outside the zones, where the customer is buying tickets for immediate travel from the station concerned, I can understand them offering the outboundary Travelcard instead of a split involving a boundary zone ticket or a ticket to West Drayton. That's what they're supposed to do, as I understand it. But they should sell the split if the customer asks and should not invent spurious reasons why it isn't valid.

In an entire football season of travelling on a non-stop split (travelcard plus BZ6 to Maidenhead), I never once had my ticket inspected on the semi-fast GWR train out of Paddington. It sounds like I've been lucky, given that there are apparently still GWR staff who believe the combination to be invalid.

Making it difficult to do this type of journey using tickets discounted with a Network Railcard is, of course, in the interests of whoever cares about fares revenue these days. Nearly everyone making the journey I make from within zones 1-6 to Maidenhead on a Saturday will be using Contactless thereby forgoing the 1/3 discount any regular traveller can get if they buy a Network Railcard. I bet if you poll them, nearly all of them would believe contactless to be the cheapest option available to them.

 

[mikeb42]

In the interests of fairness I'll add that the one group of staff I've never yet had any trouble with in this regard (or any really, with one exception) is GWR guards.

I get these combinations inspected very frequently by them, and I've never had anything apart from a thank-you and on to the next punter.

In my experience almost to a man/woman/other they are also pragmatic and use their discretion about minor irregularities. Perhaps because disruption is so rife that hassling already delayed and fed up passengers about ticketing pedantry isn't top of their priority list.

Gateline staff, particularly some at Paddington, are a different beast entirely.

 

[yorkie]

Do you have these erroneous claims from GWR in writing and/or as audio/video files?

I concur with others that you may want to get a video or audio recording of a failed transaction, if you don't have this already, as well as something in writing, if you don't have this already.

Do these refusals happen at a particular time and/or when a particular person is on duty, or do all staff at Newbury refuse to issue these fares?

GWR could be in hot water over this!

Feel free to send me a message if you have strong evidence and are willing to take this further...