Dispatch Methods in Mainland Europe (including TGV)

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not aware of any SBB train that would move with doors open. Only some night trains without compatible interlock still use the UIC System.

I was over there regularly 2010-2011, and during that time they were fitting some sort of secondary locking similar to that DB fitted (basically reapplying closure pressure about every 10 seconds from the loco) but not every train had it. Until it did, it was possible for LHCS to move with the doors open and I saw it on a number of occasions, though due to the presence of UIC door blocking you couldn't open a door from the inside when moving (you could from the outside unless the closure pressure was still there). Once that was fitted it still could but only for a few seconds until the automatic closure pressure triggered.

On the old UIC "fresh air" (opening windows) stock with folding doors this system was quite annoying, as if the pressure had just applied as the train was stopping you couldn't open the door for several seconds.

 

[MarcVD]

1. Guard blows whistle
2. Guard operates key to close doors
3. Guard visually confirms doors closed
4. Guard operates key in platform box to give driver departure signal (or waves baton, or says "Abfahren, bitte" to driver if close enough to be heard)
5. Guard closes local door and goes into train

This is more or less the procedure that was applied in Belgium before the departure signals on the platforms were decommissioned. It was abandoned because of passengers still trying to board through the door still left open after the departure signal was activated. It caused some severe accidents.

 

[Bikeman78]

Belgium : the driver has a tablet and the guard a smart watch. the guard closes the doors and then informs the
driver from his smartwatch that the train is ready to depart. Any other country using such a setup ?

What was the process at smaller stations before this system was introduced? At bigger stations there was the red dot followed by the circle of lights which was activated by the guard turning a key, but that did not exist at small stations.

 

[MarcVD]

What was the process at smaller stations before this system was introduced? At bigger stations there was the red dot followed by the circle of lights which was activated by the guard turning a key, but that did not exist at small stations.

Whistle, close doors, and hand signal by the guard. Lamp at night.
For trains equipped with a ’doors closed’ indicator in the driving cab (EMUs, DMUs, and pushed trains), whistle, close doors, and buzzer.

 

[StephenHunter]

This of course is safer for passengers as the guard can watch the train out and stop it in case of an incident. This in the UK is now lost.

I've mentioned it a few times, but I have witnessed an incident on Merseyrail which was only not fatal because the driver saw it in the DOO cameras and stopped. Yet there are lots of trains in the UK, indeed most of them, where once two have been given there is no practical chance of stopping an incident because nobody can see properly.

I have video evidence of this practice being done on the Moscow to Paris sleeper in 2016.

 

[stadler]

I have video evidence of this practice being done on the Moscow to Paris sleeper in 2016.

That is the standard Russian method. That is still used today. On the long distance locomotive hauled trains the guard always keeps their local door open (on some services they also hold out a flag) and looks out as the train departs. On the multiple unit Elektrichka local trains it is the secondman (who rides with the driver) that opens the cab door and looks out as the train departs each station.

 

[class387]

Does anyone know anything about the Czech dispatch procedure? It seems to use a visual signal/wave from the guard to the driver as opposed to our two bells - would be interested in knowing the rationale behind that?

 

[The exile]

Does anyone know anything about the Czech dispatch procedure? It seems to use a visual signal/wave from the guard to the driver as opposed to our two bells - would be interested in knowing the rationale behind that?

We didn’t have two bells with LHCS - they are many years behind us on that transition (not a criticism - just they still have plenty of hauled trains)

 

[Segedunum]

Does anyone know anything about the Czech dispatch procedure? It seems to use a visual signal/wave from the guard to the driver as opposed to our two bells - would be interested in knowing the rationale behind that?

It's pretty much the same with all stock in the Czech Republic. The guard has a coloured disc that is waved towards the driver to signify the right away.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's pretty much the same with all stock in the Czech Republic. The guard has a coloured disc that is waved towards the driver to signify the right away.

That was the standard on German LHCS for years, too. Or simply saying "Abfahren, bitte" if close enough to hear it.

(I have seen, on a Pacer, the guard open the cab door, shout "buzz buzz" and close it again - the driver returned it on the actual buzzer so I don't know why he did it!)

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

(I have seen, on a Pacer, the guard open the cab door, shout "buzz buzz" and close it again - the driver returned it on the actual buzzer so I don't know why he did it!)

It could happen that the buzzer button on the guard's panel failed while the buzzer itself was operable. A real PITA.

 

[stadler]

Does anyone know anything about the Czech dispatch procedure? It seems to use a visual signal/wave from the guard to the driver as opposed to our two bells - would be interested in knowing the rationale behind that?

That is the standardise method used on multiple units in many Mainland European countries. Croatia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Norway, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, all use that method on at least some of their trains. When the train is ready to depart the guard blows a whistle and waves a flag or baton towards the cab (which the driver sees by leaning out of the window or looking at a mirror or looking at a CCTV monitor) and gets back in the train. The driver then closes all doors including the guards local door. So this means that the guard has no way to check that all the doors are closed (and nothing is stuck in them) and this responsibility simply falls on the driver.

 

[AdamWW]

and this responsibility simply falls on the driver.

And, I suppose on passengers not to get stuck in the first place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In essence that's exactly how Merseyrail works, aside from it being via proximity card rather than waving a bat.