Prosecution Letter

[hooch2k]

Good Morning

My son travelled to Manchester from Bridgwater on a GWR train and changed at Birmingham to Cross Country train.
On their return they we stopped as He had bought a childs ticket, he is 16. He was made to give full name and address. This was on the 15 th of June.
This week he received a letter from Cross County with a prosecution fine for the sum of £323.80. The balance has to be paid within 14 days of the letter.
The letter was dated the 1st of July, we only received on the 8 th of July.
The point of this post, do I need to pay the fine.? It is IRCAS dealing with the case.
Please help

 

[island]

Have they indicated how that amount of £323.80 is broken down e.g. £X fare and £Y admin fee?

 

[jfollows]

£148.80 Bridgwater-Manchester single plus £175 admin fee I think.

Not unusual.

The original discounted ticket is treated as invalid and no credit given for payment for it.

It’s also presumably an out of court settlement which, if not paid, will lead to prosecution. Pay it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2025 ==

If you post the paperwork then it might be possible that we can spot a technicality meaning that the payment does not need to be made. In any case, it’s not a fine.

 

[furlong]

if not paid, will lead to prosecution.

I think you might have missed the reference to this being a 16 year old. When did you last hear of a 16 year old being prosecuted in such circumstances?
And the compensation requested should be based on the actual loss, which I'd suggest may have been greatly exaggerated.

Is the letter addressed to him or to you (the OP), as parents? Does it specifically mention the Youth Court? Normal procedure is to write to the parents/guardians, so it may be they've not recorded his age correctly or not noticed it.

 

[jfollows]

I think you might have missed the reference to this being a 16 year old. When did you last hear of a 16 year old being prosecuted in such circumstances?

I didn’t, but it’s a good point.
Any out of court settlement can ask for what it likes, of course, and usually it’s for the full single adult fare.
But for a 16 year old the option of sitting this out definitely exists.

 

[hooch2k]

I think you might have missed the reference to this being a 16 year old. When did you last hear of a 16 year old being prosecuted in such circumstances?
And the compensation requested should be based on the actual loss, which I'd suggest may have been greatly exaggerated.

Is the letter addressed to him or to you (the OP), as parents? Does it specifically mention the Youth Court? Normal procedure is to write to the parents/guardians, so it may be they've not recorded his age correctly or not noticed it.

Good Afternoon
My son was 16 and turned 17 yesterday.
I know he done wrong and purchased a Childs ticket. The letter was addressed to him.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2025 ==

I think you might have missed the reference to this being a 16 year old. When did you last hear of a 16 year old being prosecuted in such circumstances?
And the compensation requested should be based on the actual loss, which I'd suggest may have been greatly exaggerated.

Is the letter addressed to him or to you (the OP), as parents? Does it specifically mention the Youth Court? Normal procedure is to write to the parents/guardians, so it may be they've not recorded his age correctly or not noticed it.

Good afternoon
The letter was addressed to him?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2025 ==

Have they indicated how that amount of £323.80 is broken down e.g. £X fare and £Y admin fee?

Good Afternoon

No split in costs, but I would say this is a fine fee plus the cost of a adult ticket.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2025 ==

£148.80 Bridgwater-Manchester single plus £175 admin fee I think.

Not unusual.

The original discounted ticket is treated as invalid and no credit given for payment for it.

It’s also presumably an out of court settlement which, if not paid, will lead to prosecution. Pay it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2025 ==

If you post the paperwork then it might be possible that we can spot a technicality meaning that the payment does not need to be made. In any case, it’s not a fine.

I have posted letter in thread

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2025 ==

I didn’t, but it’s a good point.
Any out of court settlement can ask for what it likes, of course, and usually it’s for the full single adult fare.
But for a 16 year old the option of sitting this out definitely exists.

Many Thanks for your reply.
What would you suggest I do? Ignore the letter. or just pay the fine. If I don't pay asap. Will it increase?

 

[jfollows]

You either

1. pay the settlement amount, not the “fine “, and that’s the end of it
2. don’t pay, in which case the offer will be withdrawn and Cross Country will decide what to do. For adults, they’d prosecute. In this case, probably not.

 

[hooch2k]

Good Morning

My son travelled to Manchester from Bridgwater on a GWR train and changed at Birmingham to Cross Country train.
On their return they we stopped as He had bought a childs ticket, he is 16. He was made to give full name and address. This was on the 15 th of June.
This week he received a letter from Cross County with a prosecution fine for the sum of £323.80. The balance has to be paid within 14 days of the letter.
The letter was dated the 1st of July, we only received on the 8 th of July.
The point of this post, do I need to pay the fine.? It is IRCAS dealing with the case.
Please help

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2025 ==

You either

1. pay the settlement amount, not the “fine “, and that’s the end of it
2. don’t pay, in which case the offer will be withdrawn and Cross Country will decide what to do. For adults, they’d prosecute. In this case, probably not.

How can I offer to pay the settlement Amount?

 

[jfollows]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2025 ==


How can I offer to pay the settlement Amount?

As instructed on the form you have already posted. It’s just that you keep on calling it a “fine” whereas it isn’t. It’s an amount of money to close this down.

 

[hooch2k]

As instructed on the form you have already posted. It’s just that you keep on calling it a “fine” whereas it isn’t. It’s an amount of money to close this down.

Ok many Thanks.

 

[island]

If you feel you wish to pay the sum of £323.80, which is not a fine, to make the matter go away that is your right. You can do so by following the instructions on the letter.

I would not recommend doing this. I would offer, at most, the value of the anytime ticket of £148.80. You may even decide to offer to pay again just the price of the child ticket purchased, on the grounds that this is the difference between what should have been paid and what was actually paid.

We near enough never hear of train companies prosecuting minors.

For the future, consider purchasing a 16-17 Saver card which will allow a 50% discount back to child rate until the passenger turns 18.

 

[hooch2k]

If you feel you wish to pay the sum of £323.80, which is not a fine, to make the matter go away that is your right. You can do so by following the instructions on the letter.

I would not recommend doing this. I would offer, at most, the value of the anytime ticket of £148.80. You may even decide to offer to pay again just the price of the child ticket purchased, on the grounds that this is the difference between what should have been paid and what was actually paid.

We near enough never hear of train companies prosecuting minors.

For the future, consider purchasing a 16-17 Saver card which will allow a 50% discount back to child rate until the passenger turns 18.

Good Afternoon Many Thanks for the reply. Who do you suggest I make this offer to? IRCAS or Cross Country?

 

[Haywain]

Good Afternoon Many Thanks for the reply. Who do you suggest I make this offer to? IRCAS or Cross Country?

You can only reply to the letter that your son has received.

 

[furlong]

In such a situation, I'd buy the 16-17 saver immediately; write back saying something about your son's learnings from what happened from your perspective as a parent, enclose a cheque for the amount of the child fare already paid (i.e. to take what was paid in total up to the correct adult fare), explain that he's learned that the 16-17 saver would have entitled him to pay what he did legitimately so enclose a copy of the 16-17 saver purchased and that this will avoid any reoccurrence and trust that this will close the matter.

 

[Hadders]

Just to explain why forum members are saying this isn't a fine.

Only a court can impose a fine as a punishment if you've been convicted of an offence (either by pleading guilty or by being found guilty aftger a trial having pleaded not guilty). So you don't want to pay a fine because that will mean you have a criminal conviction.

You're being offered the opportunity to settle the matter without having to go to court for £323.80. If you pay this then CrossCountry/ITAL will not send the case to court.

Paying an out of court settlement might feel like paying a fine but technically it isn't a fine!

 

[Puffing Devil]

If you feel you wish to pay the sum of £323.80, which is not a fine, to make the matter go away that is your right. You can do so by following the instructions on the letter.

I would not recommend doing this. I would offer, at most, the value of the anytime ticket of £148.80. You may even decide to offer to pay again just the price of the child ticket purchased, on the grounds that this is the difference between what should have been paid and what was actually paid.

We near enough never hear of train companies prosecuting minors.

For the future, consider purchasing a 16-17 Saver card which will allow a 50% discount back to child rate until the passenger turns 18.

I fully agree with this assessment. Given your son's age, GWR would need to take this to the Youth Court. Generally, TOCs are very reluctant to do this.

It's easy for me to say that I would offer to settle by paying the up to the anytime ticket amount for full restitution and show evidence of a new 16-17 railcard. Though, as a parent, I understand your desire to clear this matter and avoid any entanglements with the criminal justice system for your son. Ultimately, the choice is yours and will be based on the depth of your pockets and whether you're prepared for the very small risk of prosecution.

 

[hooch2k]

In such a situation, I'd buy the 16-17 saver immediately; write back saying something about your son's learnings from what happened from your perspective as a parent, enclose a cheque for the amount of the child fare already paid (i.e. to take what was paid in total up to the correct adult fare), explain that he's learned that the 16-17 saver would have entitled him to pay what he did legitimately so enclose a copy of the 16-17 saver purchased and that this will avoid any reoccurrence and trust that this will close the matter.

Good Morning
Could you advise if I make the cheque out to IRCAS or ITAl ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2025 ==

Could people advise who I make a cheque out to IRCAS or ITAl
As I have a letter made out waiting to be sent.

 

[AlterEgo]

It doesn't look like they accept cheque payments; the letter explains how they accept payment.

 

[jfollows]

Good Morning
Could you advise if I make the cheque out to IRCAS or ITAl ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2025 ==

Could people advise who I make a cheque out to IRCAS or ITAl
As I have a letter made out waiting to be sent.

Your letter in post #6 above says IRCAS

 

[hooch2k]

It doesn't look like they accept cheque payments; the letter explains how they accept payment.

Many Thanks for reply.
I was advised in previous thread to write a letter and write a cheque for the price difference.
so was wondering if it is ICRAS or ITAL?