Advice please on best ticket for a week in London (help!)

[AdamWW]

Well I tried to work this out for myself but it's beyond me and I've given up!

I've been asked what the best ticket would be for a family (2 adults, one child above 5) staying in Epsom for a week and going into London sightseeing every day, except for trips to Windsor and Bicester Village.

Epsom appears to be in zone 9 and when I started looking up how these "new" zones work, particularly when used in combination with another ticket, I got very confused.

I also looked at what discounts a family railcard might offer for travelcards and got:

Anytime Day Travelcard Zones 1-9 when bought as part of ticket to London from outside the London Zones area (subject to minimum fare of £23.60)

which seems oddly specific and I'm not sure if it helps here anyway.

Can anyone suggest what works out cheapest? Getting a family railcard is certainly a possibility if it helps.

I've been looking at similar things for other countries for myself and none of them seemed to make it as hard as this!

 

[Haywain]

2 adults, one child above 5

Is the child under 11?

Can anyone suggest what works out cheapest? Getting a family railcard is certainly a possibility if it helps.

I think we need to know a bit more about the travel plans. On weekdays, will they be travelling before 0930* (if not, Anytime tickets aren't relevant)? Will their travel in London be mainly in zone 1?

 

[AdamWW]

Is the child under 11?

Ah yes. Of course that matters. Child is 10.

I think we need to know a bit more about the travel plans. On weekdays, will they be travelling before 0930* (if not, Anytime tickets aren't relevant)? Will their travel in London be mainly in zone 1?

It would be useful to know what the costs would be with and without travel before 9:30.

I mentioned Anytime travelcards because they were the only travelcards listed as being discountable with a family railcard. Which has confused me because I thought I remembered that a family railcard isn't generally valid before 9:30 in the South East.

I think it's reasonable to assume sightseeing mostly in zone 1.

 

[Hadders]

The 10-year old travels free on TfL services but not National Rail services.

The most straightorward way is probably to get One Day Travelcards with F&F Railcard (assuming you've got one). This will cost £12.30 for each adult and £3.50 for the child. Valid on trains timed to arrive at Waterloo after 10:00.

 

[AdamWW]

The 10-year old travels free on TfL services but not National Rail services.

The most straightorward way is probably to get One Day Travelcards with F&F Railcard (assuming you've got one). This will cost £12.30 for each adult and £3.50 for the child. Valid on trains timed to arrive at Waterloo after 10:00.

Thanks.

I can suggest they get a family railcard if they win out overall. I don't believe you have to be a UK resident to get one.

Would this be an Epsom to Zone 1-6 travelcard? Or does zone 9 get involved here?

I presume this is an off peak travelcard given it has time limitations.

But the family railcard web site says (my bold):

Can I use my Railcard for tickets for travel on the London Underground?​

With your Railcard you can get 1/3 off Anytime Day Travelcard when bought as part of your journey to London from outside London Zones 1-9 (subject to a minimum fare which is currently £23.60).

 

[Haywain]

Would this be an Epsom to Zone 1-6 travelcard? Or does zone 9 get involved here?

1-6, forget about zone 9.

I presume this is an off peak travelcard given it has time limitations.

Yes, and Anytime Travelcards don't get railcard discounts until the off-peak fares are available anyway.

But the family railcard web site says (my bold):

Yes, it gets a discount but you don't need that ticket or those zones.

 

[Snow1964]

On the days going to Windsor, don't need the zone 1 travelcard, if travelling via Clapham Junction I think need zone 2. It is also possible to travel via Raynes Park, through Kingston, and via Twickenham.

Bicester village is more an oddity, as you can approach it via Reading and Oxford, instead of through London. Not sure how the prices will compare though. In fact might be quicker to go south towards Dorking then travel via Guildford to Reading (rather depends on where they are staying in Epsom area)

 

[AdamWW]

Yes, it gets a discount but you don't need that ticket or those zones.

The implication is that this is the only travelcard that gets a discount, as this was the only ticket listed under the question "Can I use my Railcard for tickets for travel on the London Underground?"
But that does seem rather odd and I presume it's just being misleading.

Yes, and Anytime Travelcards don't get railcard discounts until the off-peak fares are available anyway.

That was confusing me.

On the days going to Windsor, don't need the zone 1 travelcard, if travelling via Clapham Junction I think need zone 2. It is also possible to travel via Raynes Park, through Kingston, and via Twickenham.

Bicester village is more an oddity, as you can approach it via Reading and Oxford, instead of through London. Not sure how the prices will compare though. In fact might be quicker to go south towards Dorking then travel via Guildford to Reading (rather depends on where they are staying in Epsom area)

Thanks.

I think if I were visiting the UK from another continent then Bicester Village wouldn't be on my list of places to go. But I don't generally think of shopping as a leisure activity.

 

[Haywain]

Regarding Zone 9, although Epsom is theoretically in that zone (although TfL maps show it as "outside fare zones"), you wouldn't need a Travelcard to/from zones 1-9 and, in any event, there isn't such a Travelcard available from Epsom.

The implication is that this is the only travelcard that gets a discount, as this was the only ticket listed under the question "Can I use my Railcard for tickets for travel on the London Underground?"

It isn't. Off Peak Travelcards also can be discounted. But in the south-east the railcard discount is only available at times when Off Peak tickets become available in the morning. I'm not sure why the Family Railcard website refers to the Anytime Travelcard, but it does say when travelling from outside zones 1-9.

I think if I were visiting the UK from another continent then Bicester Village wouldn't be on my list of places to go. But I don't generally think of shopping as a leisure activity.

It seems to be an incredibly popular tourist destination. I don't see it myself either.

 

[AdamWW]

Regarding Zone 9, although Epsom is theoretically in that zone (although TfL maps show it as "outside fare zones")

On the other hand, https://tfl.gov.uk/hub/stop/910GEPSM/epsom-rail-station/ says at the top:
"Epsom Rail Station
(Zone 9)"

Though Epsom is in a very large font and Zone 9 in a very small one.

Regarding Zone 9, although Epsom is theoretically in that zone (although TfL maps show it as "outside fare zones"), you wouldn't need a Travelcard to/from zones 1-9 and, in any event, there isn't such a Travelcard available from Epsom.

Anyway thanks for that. As I said, I don't know how zones 7-9 work.

 

[Haywain]

As I said, I don't know how zones 7-9 work

For the purposes of what you are looking at, ignore that they exist at all.

 

[MikeWh]

Another thing to put into the mix if there is time is the 5-10 zip card. Costs £10 and gives free travel on almost all National Rail services within the Oyster area. Sadly one of the places where that doesn't apply is Epsom to either Ewell where a £1.30/£1.35 fare will be charged for any journey (no need to restrict it just to the one stop). Anyone can get it, although if overseas it may have to be picked up from a TfL Travel centre. Details: https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-d...-oyster-photocard?intcmp=55572#on-this-page-4

 

[AdamWW]

For the purposes of what you are looking at, ignore that they exist at all.

Very happy to do so!

Another thing to put into the mix if there is time is the 5-10 zip card. Costs £10 and gives free travel on almost all National Rail services within the Oyster area. Sadly one of the places where that doesn't apply is Epsom to either Ewell where a £1.30/£1.35 fare will be charged for any journey (no need to restrict it just to the one stop). Anyone can get it, although if overseas it may have to be picked up from a TfL Travel centre. Details: https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-d...-oyster-photocard?intcmp=55572#on-this-page-4

Ah yes. Just to make things even more complicated....
I presume that would only be useful if not using a family railcard, as even for only one adult it works out a bit better than a full fare adult and a free child.

 

[MikeWh]

Very happy to do so!



Ah yes. Just to make things even more complicated....
I presume that would only be useful if not using a family railcard, as even for only one adult it works out a bit better than a full fare adult and a free child.

Yes, family railcards can't be added to any Oyster. But wanted to add it in case it made sense. For a one off week visit £10 is cheaper than £35. Can be used up to 11th birthday, which I realise may not be that far away.

 

[Hadders]

Just to confirm as well that a Travelcard isn't valid to Windsor or Bicester. You'd need either a point to point ticket or a boundary zone extendion if you had a travelcard for that day.

 

[Haywain]

For a one off week visit £10 is cheaper than £35.

If the difference for the adults is £12 a day it doesn't take long for the railcard to win.

 

[AdamWW]

If the difference for the adults is £12 a day it doesn't take long for the railcard to win.

Quite.

Another thing to put into the mix if there is time is the 5-10 zip card. Costs £10 and gives free travel on almost all National Rail services within the Oyster area. Sadly one of the places where that doesn't apply is Epsom to either Ewell where a £1.30/£1.35 fare will be charged for any journey (no need to restrict it just to the one stop). Anyone can get it, although if overseas it may have to be picked up from a TfL Travel centre. Details: https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-d...-oyster-photocard?intcmp=55572#on-this-page-4

Ah maybe there's another option then.
Weekly travelcard for two adults + free child with a Zip card?
That's £92.60*2 for the week which I think works out cheaper than day travelcards with a family railcard. And no peak restrictions.
Of course there's then the trips outside London to consider which may tip the balance towards getting a railcard after all particularly if they would waste a day of a week travelcard.

I've also seen that Groupsave is also a possibility.

I don't think this will be the best option, but for my information are there any catches with using Groupsave with a travelcard? I couldn't see any exclusions on the National Rail site but I wouldn't want to rule out any nasty surprises like some TOCs not accepting it even on the Zone1-6 travelcard part of the ticket.

 

[Haywain]

for my information are there any catches with using Groupsave with a travelcard?

Groupsave is only available with Off Peak Day Travelcards, so there's no real saving over the same tickets with a railcard.

That's £92.60*2 for the week which I think works out cheaper than day travelcards with a family railcard.

You'd have to be using the Travelcards for 6 days for the weekly to work out cheaper (by a very small amount) and then you don't get a railcard discount going to Windsor or, more importantly, Bicester Village.

 

[AdamWW]

Groupsave is only available with Off Peak Day Travelcards, so there's no real saving over the same tickets with a railcard.

But might work out for a few days when not worth buying the railcard (not the case here, but for future reference I was just wondering if there were any catches to this).

 

[BottleTheWater]

Depending on where the family is staying, it might be more cheaper to just walk to Zone 6 and buy two adult weekly travelcards (£81.60 * 2).

If they are going to Bicester Village and Windsor on different days, then they would take the tube or bus to Marylebone on the day they go to Bicester Village for £67. Similar for Windsor they could go up to Feltham using the travelcard and the tickets would be £19. Prices are for all three people.

 

[30907]

I was curious, so I checked out Bicester Village - £44 + any permitted £40 via Reading (adult day return undiscounted) and faster via Guildford/Deepdene and Reading if trains are to time.

 

[Deerfold]

Depending on where the family is staying, it might be more cheaper to just walk to Zone 6 and buy two adult weekly travelcards (£81.60 * 2).

If they are going to Bicester Village and Windsor on different days, then they would take the tube or bus to Marylebone on the day they go to Bicester Village for £67. Similar for Windsor they could go up to Feltham using the travelcard and the tickets would be £19. Prices are for all three people.

Alternatively the Oxford Tube from Victoria at 0900 gives 4.5 hours in Bicester Village (other times available by changing at Oxford onto the S5 in one or both directions) for £44 for all three people.

https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/Timetables/Oxford_Timetables/Oxford_Tube_current.pdf

https://www.oxfordtube.com/offers-events/offers/discover-bicester-village

Stagecoach S5 - Oxford City Centre to Bicester

Timetable for Stagecoach S5 - Oxford City Centre to Bicester

www.oxfordbus.co.uk

I've been to Bicester Village once. I didn't see why you'd go there over a reasonably sized city's shopping centre. Though it looks to have grown a bit since my visit and I'm not very into designer labels.

 

[AdamWW]

Thanks to everyone for your help on this.

I have passed the accumulated wisdom on, and the recipient is now digesting....