How bad was Connex South Eastern back in the day?

[frankmoh]

There's a reason why they got stripped of the franchise. Can anyone who commuted in the SE region during this time (particularly in London and especially the Hayes Line) tell me what it was like? WOuld like to hear your stories.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2025 ==

Seems like no one travelled on the Hayes Line between 1997 and 2003. I wonder how Connex coped.

 

[yorksrob]

I did to Catford Bridge on the odd occasion. Sadly all networker by then.

 

[frankmoh]

I did to Catford Bridge on the odd occasion. Sadly all networker by then.

What was the service like? You can include other lines of SE too, I just wanted to see what the Hayes Line was like back then.

 

[yorksrob]

The Hayes line worked well when I used it.

In deeper Kent, I used the trains more regularly. The serviced seemed similar to before, although the trains were grubbier (they hadn't had an internal refurb since NSE in the 1980's and the livery had a lot of yellow and grey - which showed up the dirt).

There was a marked contrast with South West trains which although they had the same rolling stock types, they'd had an internal re-trim and a cleaner looking livery.

 

[frankmoh]

Did you also travel on Connex South Central? If you did, how did they compare to each other?

 

[yorksrob]

Did you also travel on Connex South Central? If you did, how did they compare to each other?

Fairly similar to South Eastern really, although I don't think they lasted as long.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Fairly similar to South Eastern really, although I don't think they lasted as long.

Indeed. The 'Connex South Central' name lasted until August 2001 (was initially replaced by Govia trading as 'SouthCentral' before the operation was subsequently renamed as 'Southern' in May 2003). 'Connex South Eastern' lasted a little longer until November 2003 (replaced by the SRA operating as 'South Eastern Trains'). Noted also that this was around the time that Railtrack plc went out of business (placed into railway administration in October 2001 before it was defunct / no longer by end 2002).

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

The Connex story was more about promises of better service/cleaning/less crowding etc. not realised and then seeking (and being given) additional funding to support Mark1 fleet replacement. 'Difficulties' then arose in working out where the money had gone. They also had some challenges in bringing the workforce along with them, a common problem with many operators.

The main moral of the story is that, if you are a franchisee, you have to put max effort into getting the peak service to work right, every day. If you don't commuters notice and quickly bring in their MPs (many of whom were, of course, customers themselves...).

 

[yorksrob]

The Connex story was more about promises of better service/cleaning/less crowding etc. not realised and then seeking (and being given) additional funding to support Mark1 fleet replacement. 'Difficulties' then arose in working out where the money had gone. They also had some challenges in bringing the workforce along with them, a common problem with many operators.

The main moral of the story is that, if you are a franchisee, you have to put max effort into getting the peak service to work right, every day. If you don't commuters notice and quickly bring in their MPs (many of whom were, of course, customers themselves...).

And perhaps facelift your trains once in a while.

 

[4069]

As I recall (as the HMRI inspector covering Kent in that period) the Hayes line service, all Networkers, was adequate. The main safety concern was about SPADs and the suitability of the monitor system used for DOO train despatch.

 

[frankmoh]

As I recall (as the HMRI inspector covering Kent in that period) the Hayes line service, all Networkers, was adequate. The main safety concern was about SPADs and the suitability of the monitor system used for DOO train despatch.

What about the services within Kent? Presumably mostly still on 4CIGs and 4VEPs at this time.

 

[4069]

The suburban service (out as far as Strood and Sevenoaks) was DOO Networkers; everything else was known as "main line" and was operated by 400 series units (CEPs, CIGs and VEPs) or 465/466 Networkers with guards (only for the short run from Strood to Gillingham as I recall), and not forgetting the 508s on the Medway Valley service and the 205s on the Ashford-Hastings. That's all off the top of my head: I'm sure someone will provide more detail. Class 365s came in during the period and replaced CEPs on fast services on the Chatham side (despite it being a hundred years since the SER/LCDR merger, the two sides of the operation were still operationally distinct!). They were regarded as very much a flagship train, being the first new main line stock since the 1960s. Of the older units, the CIGs on the South Eastern were very well cared for, in contrast to the woeful state of those on the Central.

Some managers had a rather combative approach to driver management, but I wouldn't say that was particularly a result of the choice of franchisee.

 

[thedbdiboy]

The Connex South Eastern franchise was summarily terminated by the Strategic Rail Authority in 2003 because of financial reporting irregularities. It was nothing to do with service standards (even though state of the rolling stock, particularly the CEP fleet as it was run down for withdrawal) was often appalling

 

[4SubAsociation]

The Conex South Eastern franchise was summarily terminated by the Strategic Rail Authority in 2003 because of financial reporting irregularities. It was nothing to do with service standards (even though state of the rolling stock, particularly the CEP fleet as it was run down for withdrawal) was often appalling

Found a report by the National Audit Office published in 2005 what went wrong.

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20170207052351/https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2005/12/0506457.pdf