Dungeness branch as a heritage railway

[brad465]

With the power station in decommissioning and defueling only going to go on for so long, eventually this branch will have no traffic. With no major population centres along it, and Lydd Airport unlikely to see commercial potential (despite the current government giving huge backing to multiple airport expansions), I do not see this branch having any other mainline use. Therefore, could a heritage railway start-up take over this line?

The way I see it working, is a new platform/station would have to be built just to the southeast of Appledore station*, to keep services off the Marshlink line, then there would be stations at Dungeness, roughly on or just west of the current loading terminal, plus at Lydd. Charter trains could still use the line, which could help boost the income of the heritage operation. Maybe there could also be some partnership working with the RHDR, given at Dungeness they come fairly close, that could include a bus shuttle between the two and a rover ticket covering both attractions.

The main drawback I can see is I don't know how easy a new heritage railway start-up is to execute and whether someone wants to take the risk. At least if they swoop in after the branch is no longer used for anything else they've got all the core track, which would be easier than what the relatively nearby Rother Valley Railway had to deal with in planning permission.

*The old Brookland Halt station might work for this, however if a heritage operation wanted a mainline route to provide easy access for customers, this maybe too far away from Appledore to be attractive.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The train tourist catchment is surely already captured by the Romney Hythe and Dymchurch?
With the best will in the world, the line to Dungeness isn't an attractive vista.

 

[renegademaster]

The alignment to Romney is largely intact all though i think the quarries use it as a road to drive their machines down. No way it'd be able to compete with the RHDR and the southeast already has an oversupply of heritage railways.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm sure I read somewhere that it has an aggregate flow as well.

 

[465fan]

With the power station in decommissioning and defueling only going to go on for so long, eventually this branch will have no traffic. With no major population centres along it, and Lydd Airport unlikely to see commercial potential (despite the current government giving huge backing to multiple airport expansions), I do not see this branch having any other mainline use. Therefore, could a heritage railway start-up take over this line?

The way I see it working, is a new platform/station would have to be built just to the southeast of Appledore station*, to keep services off the Marshlink line, then there would be stations at Dungeness, roughly on or just west of the current loading terminal, plus at Lydd. Charter trains could still use the line, which could help boost the income of the heritage operation. Maybe there could also be some partnership working with the RHDR, given at Dungeness they come fairly close, that could include a bus shuttle between the two and a rover ticket covering both attractions.

The main drawback I can see is I don't know how easy a new heritage railway start-up is to execute and whether someone wants to take the risk. At least if they swoop in after the branch is no longer used for anything else they've got all the core track, which would be easier than what the relatively nearby Rother Valley Railway had to deal with in planning permission.

*The old Brookland Halt station might work for this, however if a heritage operation wanted a mainline route to provide easy access for customers, this maybe too far away from Appledore to be attractive.

If Dungeness was treated a bit more like Porthmadog, you could reasonably argue for relaying the Lydd branch, and operating the RHDR with two routes. Route one, people go to Hythe, park there, and board there to go to Dungeness with the option of Appledore. Route two, a shortened one from Appledore to Dungeness, which would be able to be fed by public transport from Eastbourne, Hastings, Ashford and beyond by train.

Dungeness might even end up with even more, and better, stuff to do when you get there. And Lydd is quite a pleasant village.

 

[renegademaster]

I'm sure I read somewhere that it has an aggregate flow as well.

It did, you can still trace out on Google maps where the line used to be but the physical connection is gone, not sure when it closed for the quarries.

 

[465fan]

I'm sure I read somewhere that it has an aggregate flow as well.

Yeah, no other freight currently operates and one has to assume that is unlikely to change. If you need to move aggregates in the local area, there's Sevington, Hothfield, Newhaven, and possibly some other equally sensible sites.

 

[HSTEd]

The only way I can see the Dungeness branch gettinga ny traffic at all is if the government changes its mind and approves a Dungeness C power plant.

Even then it would only be a handful of years of construction traffic.

 

[465fan]

The only way I can see the Dungeness branch gettinga ny traffic at all is if the government changes its mind and approves a Dungeness C power plant.

Even then it would only be a handful of years of construction traffic.

Isn't the idea of a Dungeness C dead in the water?

Aren't the only *likely* schemes now another Wylfa, another Moorside / Sellafield, and the already-going Sizewell and Hinckley?

 

[yorksrob]

It did, you can still trace out on Google maps where the line used to be but the physical connection is gone, not sure when it closed for the quarries.

Yeah, no other freight currently operates and one has to assume that is unlikely to change. If you need to move aggregates in the local area, there's Sevington, Hothfield, Newhaven, and possibly some other equally sensible sites.

I can't remember when I read it. It was only a few years ago though.

 

[HSTEd]

Isn't the idea of a Dungeness C dead in the water?

Aren't the only *likely* schemes now another Wylfa, another Moorside / Sellafield, and the already-going Sizewell and Hinckley?

As far as I know it is.
However government policy on nuclear changes like the weather. so who knows.

Bradwell et al may make a return, and I like to annoy people by calling Moorside Calder Hall B!

 

[465fan]

As far as I know it is.
However government policy on nuclear changes like the weather. so who knows.

Bradwell et al may make a return, and I like to annoy people by calling Moorside Calder Hall B!

It's a great shame because it strikes me that in a region as densely-populated as London and the South East, you can probably "never have enough" baseload power available from Dungeness, Bradwell and Sizewell. Broadly feels the same as Bristol, South Wales and the West Mids being fed from Hinckley and Oldbury B, but that's a discussion for another time!

 

[yorksrob]

I think I read somewhere that Dungeness was left out of the next generation of nuclear power stations due to the threat of sea level rise.

 

[HSTEd]

I think I read somewhere that Dungeness was left out of the next generation of nuclear power stations due to the threat of sea level rise.

This is a commonly cited argument in the documents yes.
Although as a Nuclear Engineer, its worth noting that the existing site will force a "no retreat" defence of the complex for a century for decommissioning under current plans.

So not sure its a particularly strong argument.

 

[yorksrob]

This is a commonly cited argument in the documents yes.
Although as a Nuclear Engineer, its worth noting that the existing site will force a "no retreat" defence of the complex for a century for decommissioning under current plans.

So not sure its a particularly strong argument.

I wonder whether the problem isn't so much the site itself, rather the low lying marshland behind it. Might be easier to defend a little island from the sea !

 

[sbf kent]

The issue was total opposition from Natural England to any redevelopment of the site, they want all of Dungensss to revert back to a shingle bank. The local Council was hoping to site up to three Small Modular Reactors (SMR) there, but the SMR programme seems like so many projects to have got 'stuck'. The region is crying out for more electricicty with the Port of Dover requiring up to 100 MW for ferry electrification. That's before powering the 11,000 trucks a day that pass through the County.this is a logical place to build more power generation, it has a good grid connection. Energy or environment?

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

The issue was total opposition from Natural England to any redevelopment of the site, they want all of Dungensss to revert back to a shingle bank. The local Council was hoping to site up to three Small Modular Reactors (SMR) there, but the SMR programme seems like so many projects to have got 'stuck'. The region is crying out for more electricicty with the Port of Dover requiring up to 100 MW for ferry electrification. That's before powering the 11,000 trucks a day that pass through the County.this is a logical place to build more power generation, it has a good grid connection. Energy or environment?

I thought the SMR programme was back on track following the recent choice of the Rolls Royce design over the two other competing bids.

As for a possible heritage railway, with many current outfits in serious trouble, I'd expect to see the sector shrinking rather than growing over coming decades.

 

[brad465]

I thought the SMR programme was back on track following the recent choice of the Rolls Royce design over the two other competing bids.

The project is by the sounds of things, but that doesn't mean specific sites that were proposed before suddenly get looked at again.

I think I read somewhere that Dungeness was left out of the next generation of nuclear power stations due to the threat of sea level rise.

You could say this about practically every nuclear power station, given they're all by the coast for operational reasons. Hinkley Point C overlooks the second-largest tidal range in the world, while Sizewell C will also be on a low-lying coastal area too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2025 ==

The issue was total opposition from Natural England to any redevelopment of the site, they want all of Dungensss to revert back to a shingle bank.

This is why I don't see a commercial passenger operation succeeding on this branch: they could easily build more housing and/or get Lydd Airport up to passenger standard to justify a passenger railway returning, but I'd expect very strong local opposition to such schemes.

 

[Trainlog]

With the power station in decommissioning and defueling only going to go on for so long, eventually this branch will have no traffic. With no major population centres along it, and Lydd Airport unlikely to see commercial potential (despite the current government giving huge backing to multiple airport expansions), I do not see this branch having any other mainline use. Therefore, could a heritage railway start-up take over this line?

The way I see it working, is a new platform/station would have to be built just to the southeast of Appledore station*, to keep services off the Marshlink line, then there would be stations at Dungeness, roughly on or just west of the current loading terminal, plus at Lydd. Charter trains could still use the line, which could help boost the income of the heritage operation. Maybe there could also be some partnership working with the RHDR, given at Dungeness they come fairly close, that could include a bus shuttle between the two and a rover ticket covering both attractions.

The main drawback I can see is I don't know how easy a new heritage railway start-up is to execute and whether someone wants to take the risk. At least if they swoop in after the branch is no longer used for anything else they've got all the core track, which would be easier than what the relatively nearby Rother Valley Railway had to deal with in planning permission.

*The old Brookland Halt station might work for this, however if a heritage operation wanted a mainline route to provide easy access for customers, this maybe too far away from Appledore to be attractive.

Nice idea. But the wrong part of Kent to start a heritage railway. Too much competition.

If Kent were to get another standard gauge heritage railway with low rivalry, the best bet would be North Kent. Maybe Isle of Grain or the Sheppey line should the Kingsferry bridge becomes too uneconomic to repair. Whether it's the Island part or the Sittingbourne part is up for speculation.

However, lets explore this idea. Personally, if the Dungeness line were shut, I think the next best heritage railway type Kent could get would be a Bala Lake style railway (Run narrow gauge trains along a former standard gauge line and adapt it for that). It would be different, it could allow for the restoration of Lydd station, and it would be more cost-effective to maintain than Standard gauge.

The East Kent railway would probably be the most ideal line to execute this concept, however, I will probably get some angry diesel enthusiasts over suggesting such a conversion of the EKR .

But If it means Lyd is running from Sheperdswell, through Golgotha tunnel, It would be quite a sight.

 

[yorksrob]

The project is by the sounds of things, but that doesn't mean specific sites that were proposed before suddenly get looked at again.


You could say this about practically every nuclear power station, given they're all by the coast for operational reasons. Hinkley Point C overlooks the second-largest tidal range in the world, while Sizewell C will also be on a low-lying coastal area too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2025 ==


This is why I don't see a commercial passenger operation succeeding on this branch: they could easily build more housing and/or get Lydd Airport up to passenger standard to justify a passenger railway returning, but I'd expect very strong local opposition to such schemes.

The sea level rise argument isn't one I'm particularly convinced about myself - it's just what I've seen written.

I'm even less convinced about Natural England. There's enough of Dungeness to accommodate some important national infrastructure.

 

[Bevan Price]

To run a heritage railway, you usually need plenty of unpaid volunteers. With several other heritage railways in the South East, can a new line find enough regular volunteers?

And as mentioned above, the low-lying coast is vulnerable to flooding when sea levels rise - so unlikely to be a prime choice for any new towns.
Sadly I see little future for the Dungeness line unless a new nuclear power station is to be built.

 

[yorksrob]

Glad I visited it on the thumper a few years back.

 

[Trainlog]

To run a heritage railway, you usually need plenty of unpaid volunteers. With several other heritage railways in the South East, can a new line find enough regular volunteers?

Again, it's in the wrong part of Kent to attract any sustainable amount of volunteers. RHDR, KESR, and EKR are close by and are well-established lines.

North Kent is probably the only region of Kent that could make a new heritage railway work, as it's the furthest away from most other preserved lines, which are either in the West or East of the county.

 

[brad465]

Nice idea. But the wrong part of Kent to start a heritage railway. Too much competition.

If Kent were to get another standard gauge heritage railway with low rivalry, the best bet would be North Kent. Maybe Isle of Grain or the Sheppey line should the Kingsferry bridge becomes too uneconomic to repair. Whether it's the Island part or the Sittingbourne part is up for speculation.

However, lets explore this idea. Personally, if the Dungeness line were shut, I think the next best heritage railway type Kent could get would be a Bala Lake style railway (Run narrow gauge trains along a former standard gauge line and adapt it for that). It would be different, it could allow for the restoration of Lydd station, and it would be more cost-effective to maintain than Standard gauge.

The East Kent railway would probably be the most ideal line to execute this concept, however, I will probably get some angry diesel enthusiasts over suggesting such a conversion of the EKR .

But If it means Lyd is running from Sheperdswell, through Golgotha tunnel, It would be quite a sight.

I can see the Isle of Grain port remaining rail-connected and well used in this respect for a long time. If it did close, I can still see Sharnal Street being sought after if further development happens here and Southeastern get a fleet with battery capability, so for heritage operation you'd be left with only the eastern stub.

The Kingsferry bridge would have to be replaced if uneconomical repairs arose, because the larger crossing bans cyclists and pedestrians, plus acts as an alternative road route in the event the larger crossing can't be used (like during that infamous pile-up in 2013). While a new bridge could easily ditch a railway aspect, I wouldn't be surprised if a new bridge containing a rail link was easier than the whole Act of Parliament process of shutting the whole branch, combined with Queenborough and Sheerness user outrage. Perhaps if there hadn't been development on some of the old trackbed in Minster-on-Sea, the old Leysdown branch could have been a heritage railway.

As for Dungeness, maybe we'll get a Fawley-style situation: the branch doesn't close, but has no traffic besides rail tours and the odd inspection train.

 

[Trainlog]

I can see the Isle of Grain port remaining rail-connected and well used in this respect for a long time. If it did close, I can still see Sharnal Street being sought after if further development happens here and Southeastern get a fleet with battery capability, so for heritage operation you'd be left with only the eastern stub.

The Kingsferry bridge would have to be replaced if uneconomical repairs arose, because the larger crossing bans cyclists and pedestrians, plus acts as an alternative road route in the event the larger crossing can't be used (like during that infamous pile-up in 2013). While a new bridge could easily ditch a railway aspect, I wouldn't be surprised if a new bridge containing a rail link was easier than the whole Act of Parliament process of shutting the whole branch, combined with Queenborough and Sheerness user outrage. Perhaps if there hadn't been development on some of the old trackbed in Minster-on-Sea, the old Leysdown branch could have been a heritage railway.

As for Dungeness, maybe we'll get a Fawley-style situation: the branch doesn't close, but has no traffic besides rail tours and the odd inspection train.

1.) That's understandable, especially as Southeastern is considering installing some battery capabilities into their trains soon, albeit more as a backup in case the 3rd rail goes down in one section. But seeming as that part of Kent has good commuter links potential to London it would definitely be of interest to develop on if such a passenger rail link was succesful.

2.) Yeah I could see uproar if there was no rail link reinstalled if the bridge was uneconomical to repair. Though I have heard that line is the most subsidised in Kent? So it would be interesting to see what would happen in that scenario, but most likely a new rail link would be reinstated. As for the Leysdown part, apparently, they are restoring part of the line as a footpath.

3.) I would like to see that. Maybe a scenario where a local heritage railway or trust such as Southern locos limited, buys Lydd station and on the day of railtours (Weekends would be ideal for this) the station sells a platform ticket entry of 50p-£1 and uses the revenue for their own line (or trust) and partially to keep the station going, along with fundraising opportunities for their own respective organisation such as stalls at the platform that day.

 

[yorksrob]

Maybe a tram train service to Lydd Town ?

 

[brad465]

2.) Yeah I could see uproar if there was no rail link reinstalled if the bridge was uneconomical to repair. Though I have heard that line is the most subsidised in Kent? So it would be interesting to see what would happen in that scenario, but most likely a new rail link would be reinstated. As for the Leysdown part, apparently, they are restoring part of the line as a footpath.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was heavily subsidised, as I suspect rife fare evasion, and the fact through tickets to/from the likes of London can actually be slightly cheaper than a Sittingbourne ticket (thus a legitimate passenger using the branch is not contributing to its upkeep) are contributing to this.

3.) I would like to see that. Maybe a scenario where a local heritage railway or trust such as Southern locos limited, buys Lydd station and on the day of railtours (Weekends would be ideal for this) the station sells a platform ticket entry of 50p-£1 and uses the revenue for their own line (or trust) and partially to keep the station going, along with fundraising opportunities for their own respective organisation such as stalls at the platform that day.

Is there a precedent for this?

 

[Fenchurch SP]

I'm sure I read somewhere that it has an aggregate flow as well.

There was a trial about 10 to 15 years ago where a train was loaded on the line itself to the north of Lydd. Not sure if it was a one off, presumably it was decided to be not worth it.

The level crossings on the line would be a problem if there was any proposal for passenger use.

 

[Trainlog]

Is there a precedent for this?

I wouldn't suggest that there is a precedent exactly for this; however, the station would require funding in order to restore and maintain it and seeming as its more or less a wreck atm, a plan sooner or later would be ideal. The closest things I can think of are some of the stations along the Settle and Carlise railway as that line feels almost like 'a heritage railway all but in name' for the stations along that route.

As said previously, maybe a joint deal between a heritage railway group (RHDR or Southern locos limited) and a campaign group such as Railfuture might be ideal for this but I doubt it would be of such priority to either party.

But if it got restored, this is probably some of the uses I see for that line.

The station's restoration would give an excuse for railtours to do 'one off' tours down it. Prior to the fire there were a few diesel tours turning up down the line, and there was one back in, I think it was May? that did the Grain branch also with a class 57.

As for steam, Railway touring company in recent years has tried to spice up the Kentish tours from the cliché of the 'Kentish circular' route. This year's Armistice train is no different by venturing up the Sheerness branch, and I reckon this branch would be great for that also.

 

[renegademaster]

The Dungness line feels like something the MOD would lobby to keep mothballed after the power station shuts, with Lydd ranges nearby