Edinburgh-Letchworth routeing confusion

[Perosu1]

Hi All,
I have a quick question about permitted routes for my tickets since the results from different apps seem contradictory.

I have a Super Off-Peak Single valid today from Edinburgh to Letchworth Garden City with the route Not valid via London Terminals. It was £63.50 after the 16-25 railcard discount.

What I’m fundamentally curious about it whether it is valid to travel via Cambridge (Edinburgh-Peterburgh-Cambridge-Letchworth). I can get the forum’s site to return this ticket if I specify a via point in Cambridge. I assume that’s sufficient even if I bought the ticket from somewhere else?

However, the routeing guide seems to say it’s not valid. The routeing points returned the NR calculator are Edinburgh Group and Hitchin and the only mapped route is EC. On that map the line between Cambridge and Letchworth is not shown.

Am I reading the map wrong? Thank you!

Forum site showing ticket:

Results | TrainSplit

TrainSplit compares routes & fares to get cheap train tickets for your next journey through split ticketing with no booking fee & saving up to 90%

trainsplit.com

Mapped route:

Routeing Guide - Permitted routes & maps - Vail Data

Easily access permitted routes and view routeing maps from the Routeing Guide, for the GB rail network.

vaildata.uk

 

[Adam Williams]

https://enrgbrowser.com/routes/00700 prevents passing through or stopping at a London terminal, but doesn't automatically exclude every London Stations member, if I'm not mistaken.

I believe this can be traced on EC+KE?

 

[jfollows]

There’s something wrong with the NFM64 data for Cambridge, I think, we saw it recently at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/permitted-routes-question.288851/#post-7361063 also.

If the data were correct, the Routeing Point Calculator would be definitive on whether or not “via Cambridge” is a permitted route. I would think it would be a permitted route. Edinburgh-Cambridge needs to cost no more than Edinburgh-Letchworth in order for this to be the case. Maybe I can work it out manually?

EDIT Fares 93286089 (Edinburgh-Letchworth) and 93287022 (Edinburgh-Cambridge) appear to be the same in the NFM64 data, for SOR and SVR.
And, yes, the NFM64 data is correct, it looks like the Routeing Point Calculator is looking up the wrong thing.

 

[MrJeeves]

However, the routeing guide seems to say it’s not valid. The routeing points returned the NR calculator are Edinburgh Group and Hitchin and the only mapped route is EC. On that map the line between Cambridge and Letchworth is not shown.

But if you're going to Letchworth via Cambridge, then you would use Cambridge as the appropriate destination routeing point, not Hitchin.

There’s something wrong with the NFM64 data for Cambridge, I think, we saw it recently at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/permitted-routes-question.288851/#post-7361063 also.

If the data were correct, the Routeing Point Calculator would be definitive on whether or not “via Cambridge” is a permitted route.

I'm being told it passes the fares check by comparing the SOS fare, which is £61 to Cambridge and also £61 to Letchworth, I think.

I think the RP calc site is broken, and it might be trying to use the new Cambridge Group (8384) instead of the station itself.

 

[Haywain]

Am I reading the map wrong? Thank you!

I must admit, I'm struggling to see how it's permitted on the same basis as you are.

 

[Watershed]

Hi All,
I have a quick question about permitted routes for my tickets since the results from different apps seem contradictory.

I have a Super Off-Peak Single valid today from Edinburgh to Letchworth Garden City with the route Not valid via London Terminals. It was £63.50 after the 16-25 railcard discount.

What I’m fundamentally curious about it whether it is valid to travel via Cambridge (Edinburgh-Peterburgh-Cambridge-Letchworth). I can get the forum’s site to return this ticket if I specify a via point in Cambridge. I assume that’s sufficient even if I bought the ticket from somewhere else?

However, the routeing guide seems to say it’s not valid. The routeing points returned the NR calculator are Edinburgh Group and Hitchin and the only mapped route is EC. On that map the line between Cambridge and Letchworth is not shown.

Am I reading the map wrong? Thank you!

Forum site showing ticket:

Results | TrainSplit

TrainSplit compares routes & fares to get cheap train tickets for your next journey through split ticketing with no booking fee & saving up to 90%

trainsplit.com

Mapped route:

Routeing Guide - Permitted routes & maps - Vail Data

Easily access permitted routes and view routeing maps from the Routeing Guide, for the GB rail network.

vaildata.uk

Cambridge passes the fares check as you would expect (£61 Anytime Single in NFM64 vs £61 from Letchworth too) and is therefore a valid origin Routeing Point. As such you can travel via Cambridge.

If you are reliant on the itinerary offered by a booking site then you need to actually book your ticket in conjunction with that itinerary for there to be clear evidence of the contractual validity of the route. Referring to the output of a different booking site you didn't use wouldn't be particularly strong evidence.

The only 'alternative' site whose results can be relied on would be National Rail Enquiries, since that is explicitly referred to in the National Rail Conditions of Travel and the Routeing Guide as a way of checking valid routes.

 

[Perosu1]

Thank you all for your help with this! Something odd seems to be going on with Cambridge …

The only 'alternative' site whose results can be relied on would be National Rail Enquiries, since that is explicitly referred to in the National Rail Conditions of Travel and the Routeing Guide as a way of checking valid routes.

I didn’t realise that National Enquiries was authoritative in this way but I’m glad it is since this does solve my problem today. It’s returning the same ticket for the via Cambridge route I’m planning to travel on today

 

[jfollows]

However, the routeing guide seems to say it’s not valid. The routeing points returned the NR calculator are Edinburgh Group and Hitchin and the only mapped route is EC. On that map the line between Cambridge and Letchworth is not shown.

By the way, as others have alluded to, the routeing points for Letchworth are Hitchin or Cambridge (https://iblocks-rg-publication.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/pink_pages.pdf) and you can use either provided they pass the fare check rule, which we have established that they do.

 

[OscarH]

The routeing points returned the NR calculator are Edinburgh Group and Hitchin and the only mapped route is EC. On that map the line between Cambridge and Letchworth is not shown.

The short answer is you don't need a Cambridge to Letchworth line - the map tracing is only for the portion of the journey between the origin routeing point (Edinburgh is a routeing point), and the destination routeing point (the last routeing point you pass before your destination - which has rules to determine if its an allowed routeing point as others have alluded to. Cambridge is the answer in this case, and it is permitted). You only trace from Edinburgh to Cambridge, then the last section from Cambridge to Letchworth is validated separately using "local journey rules" - there's some complicated local journey rules, but in most cases you'll hopefully fall into the local journey is the shortest route or within 3 miles of it

 

[yorkie]

It is valid.

Origin Routeing Point – EDINBURGH GROUP
Terminus is a routeing point

---

Destination Routeing Point – Cambridge
Failed fares check
Local journey permitted
Local journey to/from terminus: Cambridge to Letchworth Garden City
Permitted: Through train.

---

Through Mapped Route
Checking G11-BWK-NCL-DHM-DAR-NTR-YRK-DON-RET-G47-GRA-PBO-ELY-CBG
Traceable on map AA
Permitted: Mapped route.