Carousel Buses (Go-Ahead group)

[wiltshirebloke]

With First's 6 (Maidenhead - Slough - Wexham Court) running less than hourly and recently seeing the beginning of competition between Maidenhead and Slough from Thames Valley's 704, the half-hourly frequency to be offered by Carousel between Slough and Wexham Court will surely put even more strain on First's 6. Particularly with the new 106 shorts running an hour later than at present Mon-Sat, and both ends of the operating day extended on Sundays. Be interesting to see if First do anything.

So along with the 6, it will be interesting to keep an eye on the X74. Is the clock ticking to it's demise ?

 

[markymark2000]

So along with the 6, it will be interesting to keep an eye on the X74. Is the clock ticking to it's demise ?

The X74 is faster than the 103 (Even if only by 10 minutes), that can sometimes be enough to keep it going. This competition is good if it brings benefits but if First give up, everyone gets longer journeys and people start jumping back into their cars. I think it's a shame that Carousel have opted to make everything the slower 103.

 

[glennds999]

Some rather impressive improvements there, must be the best service that part of Buckinghamshire has had in quite some time - now all that's missing is the 336 Watford link!
I rather wonder if, between this and the continuing expansion of Pulhams into the Cotswolds, Go Ahead Oxford may be approaching a size where it merits a management restructure - as I understand it functions are currently quite centralised in Oxford, and 'Oxford Bus Company' increasingly seems something of a misnomer for a business unit stretching from Staines to Gloucester!

Whilst the Watford link is no longer, these changes reintroduce the direct bus between Beaconsfield and Amersham, with better links for those in Chesham Moor and Chartridge to these towns, as well as to High Wycombe on the 105. Hopefully that generates some new usage, especially for scholars.

 

[thomasheywood]

The X74 is faster than the 103 (Even if only by 10 minutes), that can sometimes be enough to keep it going. This competition is good if it brings benefits but if First give up, everyone gets longer journeys and people start jumping back into their cars. I think it's a shame that Carousel have opted to make everything the slower 103.

I was bought up around Beaconsfield and High Wycombe, no one has abandoned their cars just because the X74 exists, in Buckinghamshire the only people who use the bus are those who can’t afford to drive…

 

[markymark2000]

I was bought up around Beaconsfield and High Wycombe, no one has abandoned their cars just because the X74 exists, in Buckinghamshire the only people who use the bus are those who can’t afford to drive…

It won't be people in Beaconsfield who would give up their cars to get the X74 though given the X74 doesn't serve Beaconsfield?

And if your logic is true, given these enhancements by Carousel, there must be an extortionate amount of people who can't afford to drive, or someone somewhere has extremely deep pockets and is paying for empty buses to be plodding around everywhere.

 

[thomasheywood]

It won't be people in Beaconsfield who would give up their cars to get the X74 though given the X74 doesn't serve Beaconsfield?

And if your logic is true, given these enhancements by Carousel, there must be an extortionate amount of people who can't afford to drive, or someone somewhere has extremely deep pockets and is paying for empty buses to be plodding around everywhere.

It’ll be the second, as soon as the BSIP money runs out those routes will be pruned back, as I said the only three groups of people who use the bus in that area of Buckinghamshire are the twirlies, school kids and people who literally have no way of financing a car…

 

[James H]

On the flip side some of the areas Carousel serves are really not very far from the Greater London boundary and I welcome Carousel's attempts to give people living, working and visiting those areas a more respectable bus service than they've had in recent years and one that isn't so acutely embarrassingly threadbare when compared to London's offering.

 

[Mgameing123]

It’ll be the second, as soon as the BSIP money runs out those routes will be pruned back, as I said the only three groups of people who use the bus in that area of Buckinghamshire are the twirlies, school kids and people who literally have no way of financing a car…

Well passenger numbers are definitely not low on Carousel Buses. Carousel is quite a successful company.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2025 ==

Service Changes from 31st August 2025

We will be making a number of service changes from 31st August 2025, with buses between High Wycombe to Beaconsfield up to every 10 minutes.

www.carouselbuses.co.uk

Highlights are :

Buses every 10 minutes High Wycombe - Beaconsfield due to a near doubling of the 103 Slough and Windsor service.

Buses every 15 minutes to Chesham (1), doubling frequency to half hourly to Hemel Hempstead.

New hourly service Amersham to Uxbridge (101), doubling the service between the Chalfonts and Uxbridge.

106/7 frequency doubled to every 30 minutes Slough to Wexham Park, but the northern section of route removed (replaced by new 101)

After many years the 275 to Oxford will change operator.

I’m curious about what’s going to happen in Maidenhead considering they haven’t posted that yet. Any guesses?

 

[Mollman]

The X74 is faster than the 103 (Even if only by 10 minutes), that can sometimes be enough to keep it going. This competition is good if it brings benefits but if First give up, everyone gets longer journeys and people start jumping back into their cars. I think it's a shame that Carousel have opted to make everything the slower 103.

Or another operator will step in. Carousel might provide some replacement (perhaps hourly) or Thames Valley or one of the Reds might see it as a chance to compete.

 

[jackgwycombe]

Or another operator will step in. Carousel might provide some replacement (perhaps hourly) or Thames Valley or one of the Reds might see it as a chance to compete.

I would imagine Carousel would operate extra X103 journeys at peaks times (following X74 route) if First were to withdraw. The last few years they've been operating additional journeys alongside the hourly frequency, so I'd think that would be fairly easy for Carousel to do and it would ensure that passengers still have a fast service.

 

[K4016td]

Do you think it would make sense to create even faster version of X74, with entering/leaving M40 on J4 avoiding Loudwater altogheter?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2025 ==

One has to remember that London is a franchise area, which means it has nothing much in common with commercial operation in Slough. Portsmouth and Weymouth although further away, are in the same business situation.

Yes, but that was also the case before 2013. Even though Berkshire was a separate operation, its proximity to the London management team meant they could react more readily to changes in the network. I believe the operations were generally better overseen than when they were being managed from Hampshire.

The best example was the then-new management decision to split the routes in half, terminating them at Slough Bus Station. This required passengers to change buses for every cross-town journey, which dramatically reduced footfall. Although most of these changes were quickly reversed, the damage had already been done.

 

[jackgwycombe]

Do you think it would make sense to create even faster version of X74, with entering/leaving M40 on J4 avoiding Loudwater altogheter?

It would be faster coming off the motorway there, but only by a few minutes. I'd imagine it wouldn't be worth it especially considering the reliability issues it would bring because of Marlow Hill Schools, and that you miss a large number of passengers travelling via the A40.

What I could see is an X37 service travelling from High Wycombe to Maidenhead and Windsor via the A404. I think you could probably get to Windsor in under an hour on that route and could run an hourly service with 2 buses. First tried to run an express service to Maidenhead many years ago with the 'X9' but it was shortlived. I think now Carousel have a network at both ends, and that there's BSIP funding going around, it could definitely be a success.

 

[Non Multi]

So along with the 6, it will be interesting to keep an eye on the X74. Is the clock ticking to it's demise ?

In short, no.

Whenever I've used the X74 to get to Loudwater from Slough, the weekday off peak loadings have always been good.

First are currently running A4 sheet ads at bus shelters pushing their £6 day tickets offer and £20 weeklies. Locking punters in seems to be the plan.

 

[Deerfold]

Do you think it would make sense to create even faster version of X74, with entering/leaving M40 on J4 avoiding Loudwater altogheter?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2025 ==


Yes, but that was also the case before 2013. Even though Berkshire was a separate operation, its proximity to the London management team meant they could react more readily to changes in the network. I believe the operations were generally better overseen than when they were being managed from Hampshire.

The best example was the then-new management decision to split the routes in half, terminating them at Slough Bus Station. This required passengers to change buses for every cross-town journey, which dramatically reduced footfall. Although most of these changes were quickly reversed, the damage had already been done.

Slough was in decline when I lived on First's network 2001-2003. The only improvement was paid for by the Industrial Estate and didn't last long. Every change in service saw frequency drops and adverts for drivers promised no compulsory evening or Sunday working.

 

[Mgameing123]

It would be faster coming off the motorway there, but only by a few minutes. I'd imagine it wouldn't be worth it especially considering the reliability issues it would bring because of Marlow Hill Schools, and that you miss a large number of passengers travelling via the A40.

What I could see is an X37 service travelling from High Wycombe to Maidenhead and Windsor via the A404. I think you could probably get to Windsor in under an hour on that route and could run an hourly service with 2 buses. First tried to run an express service to Maidenhead many years ago with the 'X9' but it was shortlived. I think now Carousel have a network at both ends, and that there's BSIP funding going around, it could definitely be a success.

I’d love to see a route like that.

 

[RELL6L]

I welcome the new services and applaud the way Carousel have built up their network. The improvements in reliability have undoubtedly brought back some passengers who had deserted Arriva. It isn’t entirely clear with these changes what is commercial and what is provided by BSIP funds.

Great to see Beaconsfield to Amersham services return as recently has Beaconsfield to Penn. It would be interesting to know how well these improvements are doing- I certainly see some empty buses but others look well supported. The improvements on the corridors north out of Slough are good too. Now how about an hourly service Stokenchurch to Lane End to Marlow to Bourne End to Wooburn Green to Beaconsfield - probably no passengers but it would look great on a map!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I welcome the new services and applaud the way Carousel have built up their network. The improvements in reliability have undoubtedly brought back some passengers who had deserted Arriva. It isn’t entirely clear with these changes what is commercial and what is provided by BSIP funds.

Great to see Beaconsfield to Amersham services return as recently has Beaconsfield to Penn. It would be interesting to know how well these improvements are doing- I certainly see some empty buses but others look well supported. The improvements on the corridors north out of Slough are good too. Now how about an hourly service Stokenchurch to Lane End to Marlow to Bourne End to Wooburn Green to Beaconsfield - probably no passengers but it would look great on a map!

Put away the crayons!!!

Seriously, looking at these enhancements, Carousel are doing a very good job. I suspect that there is some BSIP funding in there but clearly some commercial initiatives in there too. You must be pleased to see a much better position locally.

 

[PeterC]

Put away the crayons!!!

Seriously, looking at these enhancements, Carousel are doing a very good job. I suspect that there is some BSIP funding in there but clearly some commercial initiatives in there too. You must be pleased to see a much better position locally.

There own website states that changed to the One group of routes are in partnership with both Bucks and Herts councils. New housing in Bovingdon is possibly the driver for Herts' involvement. The 1B and 105 also cover much of the current 71/72/73 contract so I doubt that they have gone 100% commercial.

Considering that it took some drivers a while to adapt to the last set of changes to the One it will be interesting to see if these routes settle down without too much disruption.

 

[glennds999]

There own website states that changed to the One group of routes are in partnership with both Bucks and Herts councils. New housing in Bovingdon is possibly the driver for Herts' involvement. The 1B and 105 also cover much of the current 71/72/73 contract so I doubt that they have gone 100% commercial.

Considering that it took some drivers a while to adapt to the last set of changes to the One it will be interesting to see if these routes settle down without too much disruption.

For the one, the half hourly extension to Hemel Hempstead is funded in part by Hertfordshire, the Saturday enhancements are funded in part by Buckinghamshire. The later journeys are fully commercial. On the 105, the Amersham to Chesham and Chartridge replaces some of the Chesham locals, and this section of the route will be covered by that contract. Hope that helps.

 

[Mgameing123]

For the one, the half hourly extension to Hemel Hempstead is funded in part by Hertfordshire, the Saturday enhancements are funded in part by Buckinghamshire. The later journeys are fully commercial. On the 105, the Amersham to Chesham and Chartridge replaces some of the Chesham locals, and this section of the route will be covered by that contract. Hope that helps.

I guess you can’t complain about direct bus from Chesham to Uxbridge being reinstated but I’d wish that the Slough bus could also stay.

 

[glennds999]

I guess you can’t complain about direct bus from Chesham to Uxbridge being reinstated but I’d wish that the Slough bus could also stay.

The end to end demand from Amersham to Slough is low. Hopefully this revised set up is a better platform for patronage growth.

 

[Mgameing123]

The end to end demand from Amersham to Slough is low. Hopefully this revised set up is a better platform for patronage growth.

The end to end demand is low because the journey time between Amersham and Slough on 106/107 is god awful at 1 hour 20 minutes vs a 30 minute drive.

 

[PeterC]

The end to end demand is low because the journey time between Amersham and Slough on 106/107 is god awful at 1 hour 20 minutes vs a 30 minute drive.

That is the problem with buses. As an inter urban service you would do far better sending the bus straight down the A355 to the Tree Tuns then a short bit of the Bath Road to reach the centre of Slough. A much better end to end journey but with sfa in terms of intermediate traffic. You need a lot of end to end traffic to make that viable.

Even with the Uxbridge service you still have a tour of the Chalfonts and Gerrards Cross.

 

[Mgameing123]

That is the problem with buses. As an inter urban service you would do far better sending the bus straight down the A355 to the Tree Tuns then a short bit of the Bath Road to reach the centre of Slough. A much better end to end journey but with sfa in terms of intermediate traffic. You need a lot of end to end traffic to make that viable.

Even with the Uxbridge service you still have a tour of the Chalfonts and Gerrards Cross.

Could maybe work if you run a Slough to Aylesbury bus

 

[MaidaVale]

One has to remember that London is a franchise area, which means it has nothing much in common with commercial operation in Slough. Portsmouth and Weymouth although further away, are in the same business situation.

Whilst this is true and I see another structure reshuffle as unlikely within Firstbus, It certainly was more linked when First previously had London operations despite them being technically seperate divisions back then. First Berkshire shared the fleet numbering system with First Centrewest and had London-style fleetnumbers like ES64045 as an example in the Citaro fleet. There were also many instances of transfers between the Berkshire and London operations with shared liveries and destination blinds (Ironically First Berkshire continued to use the a TfL Johnson inspired font for dests long after the London operations ceased).

Whereas I see this extremely unlikely to happen again, especially as regulation in London has got a lot tighter in the last decade (all-red liveries and interior branding for example), I certainly don't see it as impossible, particularly if first ever get their hands on the 81 to Slough from Metroline.

Metroline themselves have had their closely-linked Regional and London operations for many years, as did Sullivans. I wouldn't completely take it off the cards.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Whilst this is true and I see another structure reshuffle as unlikely within Firstbus, It certainly was more linked when First previously had London operations despite them being technically seperate divisions back then. First Berkshire shared the fleet numbering system with First Centrewest and had London-style fleetnumbers like ES64045 as an example in the Citaro fleet. There were also many instances of transfers between the Berkshire and London operations with shared liveries and destination blinds (Ironically First Berkshire continued to use the a TfL Johnson inspired font for dests long after the London operations ceased).

Got to remember that it was because First bought Centrewest in 1997, who had bought Q Drive (BeeLine and London Buslines) in 1996. A quirk of history.

 

[Mark J]

I welcome the new services and applaud the way Carousel have built up their network. The improvements in reliability have undoubtedly brought back some passengers who had deserted Arriva. It isn’t entirely clear with these changes what is commercial and what is provided by BSIP funds.

I agree.

They have improved bus services in Maidenhead substancially over the previous Thames Valley offerings.

Some friends of mine in Maidenhead are overjoyed at now having a Sunday bus service, for the first time in years.

We also have the 127 hourly bus from Reading to Maidenhead. Long may that continue!

A later service from Wycombe to Bourne End would be good.

The last train from Bourne end leaves post 11pm, yet the last bus from Wycombe to Bourne End is around 8pm! So something there that could be improved.

I also think a one hour later 850 on a Friday/ Saturday would be good. Departing Wycombe at 22:30, however only going as far as Henley. That would allow anyone going onto Reading to use the Reading Buses Aqua, which leaves Henley at 23:45.

I would also like to see ticket integration with Red Rose/Red Line. It is silly that you can get to Hemel Hempstead, or Oxford with Carousel, but not to Aylesbury - having to purchase seperate tickets to do so, or use the train.

 

[Mgameing123]

I agree.

They have improved bus services in Maidenhead substancially over the previous Thames Valley offerings.

Some friends of mine in Maidenhead are overjoyed at now having a Sunday bus service, for the first time in years.

We also have the 127 hourly bus from Reading to Maidenhead. Long may that continue!

A later service from Wycombe to Bourne End would be good.

The last train from Bourne end leaves post 11pm, yet the last bus from Wycombe to Bourne End is around 8pm! So something there that could be improved.

I also think a one hour later 850 on a Friday/ Saturday would be good. Departing Wycombe at 22:30, however only going as far as Henley. That would allow anyone going onto Reading to use the Reading Buses Aqua, which leaves Henley at 23:45.

I would also like to see ticket integration with Red Rose/Red Line. It is silly that you can get to Hemel Hempstead, or Oxford with Carousel, but not to Aylesbury - having to purchase seperate tickets to do so, or use the train.

Honestly all I want now is an express bus to High Wycombe maybe an extension of the Thames Valley bus 16.

 

[Mark L]

The end to end demand is low because the journey time between Amersham and Slough on 106/107 is god awful at 1 hour 20 minutes vs a 30 minute drive.

Surely the end to end demand is low because there isn’t a great wish amongst the populace of Slough to visit Amersham (and still less the other way round!). A route like this will largely cater for multiple intermediate flows.

 

[Mgameing123]

Surely the end to end demand is low because there isn’t a great wish amongst the populace of Slough to visit Amersham (and still less the other way round!). A route like this will largely cater for multiple intermediate flows.

It probably would but come on. You can’t expect people to use the end to end journey when the car is 3x faster than the bus. That’s just way too slow!